DFW01E55

Okay, we've all read the endless discussions of what a particular tune might yield.

My question is, what increase in horsepower are you willing to guarantee?

The dyno shown below was done immediately after installation of the ASP pulley.

If your software was installed and the same dyno was used with similar ambient temps, are you willing to guarantee a specific increase in hp?

Vadim @ FD

If it was done immediately after ASP pulley install, than why is ASP run is number 11, where stock run is number 1. What happened with other 9 runs?

It looks like the first stock run was ran hot and car detonated. You can see it from low TQ numbers and from the TQ curve that jumps at 4500 rpm as DME is trying to bring back timing in. It is still low though, most stock cars are in 410-420 RWHP range.

The biggest problem with numbers is that most dyno places do not have adequate cooling and do not know how to dyno 55s properly. However, when I do the work, than I stand behind dyno numbers 100%.

AdamG@NorCal

First of all, tuners are like car doctors. Like doctors, we prescribe what is best for the cars. However, each car behaves differently and respond differently to mods. That's why we have custom tuning whereby we tune to your specific mods and needs.

Since we are living in the real world, and not theories and hypothesis, we can only stand behind our products and not guarantee a specific number. If you do not like the software tune, we will refund your money graciously. No questions asked, or we can always work with you till you are satisfied with it. I believe major tuners such as Evosport, Kleemann, Renntech, Powerchip have the same money back guarantee policy.

And i do have to agree with Vadim, a lot of dyno shops do not have proper ventilation while dyno-ing the E55. That's why we encourage clients to go participate @ the track to see how their cars perform in real conditions instead of artificial stimulation.

Lastly, I am sure though Vadim and myself will always stand behind our products and will continue to help our clients in ways possible. Now that's our guarantee to our clients.

DFW01E55

The runs were done on different dates, #1 through 3 being before any work was done, numbers 4 through 9 were done after a dealer flash (including aborted runs) and the balance on the night the pulley was installed. There was 45 days between #1 and #11.

So based on your comments, if you had conducted the dyno shown and were therefore certain that it was done right, would you be willing to guarantee that your ecu tune would produce X? number of horsepower?

IngenereAMG

I have to agree with Adam's comments.

We also stand behind our products and will refund your money if you aren't satisfied.

There are so many variables whether you are in a dyno or the real world, and we try our best to make the best recommendations for what the client wants, and what the car can handle, while maintaining reliability. A balance has to be struck. We try to set the cars up to work in the widest possible conditions.

The real world is where our products shine the best, because that is what they are developed for. I have rarely had a client get in their car after we are done and drive it and NOT be satisfied, but when it does happen, we will work with the client to find the right solution for his needs....if its possible.

buckeyewalt

I can see the ECU tune will work well for the "55" engine, with boost and pully upgrades, however, on my "63" engine, with no other mods, just an ECU tune, I somehow can't see the HP that is being claimed....am I missing something or looking at it the wrong way..????

DFW01E55

Just wanted to bump this because there's another thread ripping Veloce for making guarantees, when in this thread NONE of the flashers ... oops, tuners (programmers?) are making guarantees. They all (including Veloce) took the very safe position by claiming "YMMV, but we'll make our customers happy."

I was surprised that none of them even tried to separate themselves from the pack by making an estimate at what their programming might yield.

I guess there are just too many lawyers with too little to do.

DirtyVegasMB

I don't think its lawyers... I think the issue is to what extent the tuners will advertise the HP gain of the flash. Many have done so and all ended up in the same range between 10-20 WHP depending on octane from what I've read. Veloce advertises 55 HP that raised serious controversy. I for one hoped that the claims would be proven, but that has not happened yet.

DirtyVegasMB

Having said that, great gains with the ASP pulley you got there! Hoping to see those gains on my end too. Have you had a tune done since then?

jangy

The only guarantee is that you will get addicted. Find a tuner that you like, because you will spend many hours with him. It is a fun journey. You learn along the way, but its all just metal.

DFW01E55

No tune yet, that's why I started the thread, to see who believed in their product.
I'm always contemplating changing cars so I haven't taken the next step to tune or add headers.

In a different thread, I suggested that Dino flash his car back to stock, dyno it and then flash his program back in, dyno again and compare the results.

The same process can be performed by any of the other guys that want ot substantiate their positions. It's obviously easier and safer to stay vague.

rarfinancial

I think the question should be , what do you want out of a tune? Once you know the answer to that then call a tuner, let him know what you want and he will let you know if they can help you. Then go to the track and for get the dyno

JAYCL600

Mike,

I know your frustration since we have discussed this. "They" cannot guarantee a specific HP figure because of the variables involved.

DFW01E55

Jay, from the consumer side, if you control the variables such as dyno, operator, temp, gas etc., you ought to be able to make a decent guess as to what your output could be.
I think that any reasonable party would accept 10 to 15% + or - of the target as a hit.
Maybe the word guarantee is the problem? If I asked them privately what they would expect of their software, I bet they'd have an answer.

DFW01E55

I know that "the track" is the conventional wisdom for determining the benefit of your mods but with the proper controls, shouldn't a dyno be more objective?

JAYCL600

SLK55R

Yes they would give you an estimated number ... NOT a guarantee.

Timeless

Try the Powerchips tune. They stand behind it 100% and Aaron with StealthAuto is a pleasure to work with.

http://www.powerchipgroup.com/

DFW01E55

Dino, Adam and Vadim will stand behind their products 100% too, so I have no problem with that.
It's just that no one wants to quantify anticipated gains in advance.

Timeless

I believe PowerChips does give you a very good indication of what to expect depending on your fuel octane. You can go to their site and input the vehicle you have and it is very clear what they can do for you.

DirtyVegasMB

Their graphs and tables never made sense to me. We know what the car should dyno and that it is underrated, yet their tables with gains are still in the 460 range at the fly wheel for base.

http://www.powerchipgroup.com/Datasheets/2/Mer0172.pdf

oldgixxer

I was all for the ECU flash until I found out that the car would be red flagged&would have absolutely no(0) warranty from M-B for any engine related issues

Timeless

They can only tell it has been tuned if they take the ECU apart and physically look at it.

RoydRage

So then why did you Pop off Again, and Again, about "50hp from an ECU Tune Alone"

You did on several threads repeatedly... Your client was faster with your ECU tune, than another same car that had a PULLEY, AND ECU tune, etc, etc, etc.

There is NO WAY, that your ECU tune alone makes 50hp, and YOU KNOW IT!

That's what *REALLY* aggravated me.

RoydRage

vrus

Guarantees on power output are a tough thing to give...

About the only thing a reputable tuner/shop can guarantee you is your satisfaction or your money back.. That's about as much as you can ask for from anyone. Since all cars respond differently to the same mods, its tough to know what you are going to get out of it until its done..