another Pulley ... Final?
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From: Italy
cls 55 or FIAT Coupe T20v-6speed
another Pulley ... Final?
indeed in OEM pulley (and those oem-modified like ASP ..) both metals of the first outer ring for acc belt and the second ring for SC belt are separated from the other metallic structural element that is bolted to the crank, by means of an elastomeric material.
it is that 2mm thick rubber ring that crosses the pulley from top to bottom
RennTech vs OEM
Kleemann vs OEM
This elastomeric material has a dampening function and, mostly important, insulates at best our delicate crank from possible disturbing forces arising from other devices like accessories and Supercharger.
it comes that outer rings shouldn't be bolted directly to that structural element.
well, it makes sense .. a lot
according to this finding, Asp ended up by simply screwing and welding a larger outer ring , without substantially touching any structural parts of the pulley. only hitch is that it's not so fine-looking and the outer ring is not swappable.
Others, like Renntech, Kleemann, Evotech went for the substitution of the outer ring.
In more recent models , like VRP and a model presented by LET) the outer ring appears screwed to the strucutral element.
.. and Let
.. here, too, no rubber between outer ring and back structure
Evosport: don't know .. don't have enough clear images.
The attached image shows another interesting method
...rough indeed .. but some of you could do better
It reaches both goals:
- keeping original concept
- possibility of swapping the outer ring
this appears to me the Final Pulley
this appears to me the Final Pulley
it is that 2mm thick rubber ring that crosses the pulley from top to bottom
RennTech vs OEM Kleemann vs OEMThis elastomeric material has a dampening function and, mostly important, insulates at best our delicate crank from possible disturbing forces arising from other devices like accessories and Supercharger.
it comes that outer rings shouldn't be bolted directly to that structural element.
well, it makes sense .. a lot
according to this finding, Asp ended up by simply screwing and welding a larger outer ring , without substantially touching any structural parts of the pulley. only hitch is that it's not so fine-looking and the outer ring is not swappable.
Others, like Renntech, Kleemann, Evotech went for the substitution of the outer ring.
In more recent models , like VRP and a model presented by LET) the outer ring appears screwed to the strucutral element.
.. and Let
.. here, too, no rubber between outer ring and back structure
Evosport: don't know .. don't have enough clear images.
The attached image shows another interesting method
...rough indeed .. but some of you could do better
It reaches both goals:
- keeping original concept
- possibility of swapping the outer ring
this appears to me the Final Pulley
this appears to me the Final Pulley
Last edited by dyno; Dec 2, 2007 at 02:46 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: East Coast Baby!
SL55
Touch Up.
It looks kinda Ruff...
If you did this yourself you should be applauded very good, I meant no offense, I'm just looking at it like it should be as a finished product. Hear it is with exposure, and sharpening corrected.
I'm going with the EvoTech, proven, reliable, and done well. I'm not messing around with designs that are not tried and true.
Best,
RoydRage
If you did this yourself you should be applauded very good, I meant no offense, I'm just looking at it like it should be as a finished product. Hear it is with exposure, and sharpening corrected.
I'm going with the EvoTech, proven, reliable, and done well. I'm not messing around with designs that are not tried and true.
Best,
RoydRage
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Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 1
From: Italy
cls 55 or FIAT Coupe T20v-6speed
It looks kinda Ruff...
If you did this yourself you should be applauded very good, I meant no offense, I'm just looking at it like it should be as a finished product. Hear it is with exposure, and sharpening corrected
....,.
I'm going with the EvoTech, proven, reliable, and done well. I'm not messing around with designs that are not tried and true.
Best,
RoydRage
If you did this yourself you should be applauded very good, I meant no offense, I'm just looking at it like it should be as a finished product. Hear it is with exposure, and sharpening corrected
....,.
I'm going with the EvoTech, proven, reliable, and done well. I'm not messing around with designs that are not tried and true.
Best,
RoydRage
but seems to me they added a bit too much rubber ... could be too loose and start up dancing
Thread Starter
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From: Italy
cls 55 or FIAT Coupe T20v-6speed
it's small ... so no further balancing
but, as said above, I posted here for those willing to make all proofs needed for larger rings
should anybody come out, .. hope will remember me
but, as said above, I posted here for those willing to make all proofs needed for larger rings
should anybody come out, .. hope will remember me
Last edited by dyno; Dec 2, 2007 at 05:12 PM.
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From: Mia
2005 E 55
I do agree with using the factory style HB as our engines don't spin faster than 7000 rpm to make a difference.
Thread Starter
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From: Italy
cls 55 or FIAT Coupe T20v-6speed
btw, what is a good instrument for balancing a pulley ?
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E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
All due respect Dyno, but your statement,
"This elastomeric material has a dampening function and, mostly important, insulates at best our delicate crank from possible disturbing forces arising from other devices like accessories and Supercharger."
May not be the case, the disturbing forces are the combustion cycle not the accessories / supercharger. Believe me the belts have far more give and slip than the elastomer on a dampener. It is not only OK to direct drive accessories and supercharger but may be preferred as the elastomer would not have to cope with an additional rotational load of the accessories / supercharger.
Here is a excerpt from, http://www.partstrain.com/ShopByDepa...monic_Balancer
Harmonic balancers are designed to prolong the engine life by reducing wear on the main bearings and main journals and preventing crankshaft failure. The harmonic balancer or the vibration damper is a piece of equipment connected to the crankshaft which job is to lessen the harmonic vibration. Each time a cylinder fires, the connecting rod pounds the crankshaft journal as the force turns the crankshaft, causing energy to be dispersed through the engine. The front of the crankshaft takes the brunt of this power, so it often moves before the back of the crankshaft. This results to a twisting motion and after that, when the power is removed from the front, the halfway twisted shaft unwinds and snaps back in the opposite direction. Even if this “unwinding process” is somewhat diminutive, it causes harmonic vibration.
"This elastomeric material has a dampening function and, mostly important, insulates at best our delicate crank from possible disturbing forces arising from other devices like accessories and Supercharger."
May not be the case, the disturbing forces are the combustion cycle not the accessories / supercharger. Believe me the belts have far more give and slip than the elastomer on a dampener. It is not only OK to direct drive accessories and supercharger but may be preferred as the elastomer would not have to cope with an additional rotational load of the accessories / supercharger.
Here is a excerpt from, http://www.partstrain.com/ShopByDepa...monic_Balancer
Harmonic balancers are designed to prolong the engine life by reducing wear on the main bearings and main journals and preventing crankshaft failure. The harmonic balancer or the vibration damper is a piece of equipment connected to the crankshaft which job is to lessen the harmonic vibration. Each time a cylinder fires, the connecting rod pounds the crankshaft journal as the force turns the crankshaft, causing energy to be dispersed through the engine. The front of the crankshaft takes the brunt of this power, so it often moves before the back of the crankshaft. This results to a twisting motion and after that, when the power is removed from the front, the halfway twisted shaft unwinds and snaps back in the opposite direction. Even if this “unwinding process” is somewhat diminutive, it causes harmonic vibration.
Thread Starter
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From: Italy
cls 55 or FIAT Coupe T20v-6speed
All due respect Dyno, but your statement,
"This elastomeric material has a dampening function and, mostly important, insulates at best our delicate crank from possible disturbing forces arising from other devices like accessories and Supercharger."
May not be the case, the disturbing forces are the combustion cycle not the accessories / supercharger. Believe me the belts have far more give and slip than the elastomer on a dampener. It is not only OK to direct drive accessories and supercharger but may be preferred as the elastomer would not have to cope with an additional rotational load of the accessories / supercharger.
Here is a excerpt from, http://www.partstrain.com/ShopByDepa...monic_Balancer
Harmonic balancers are designed to prolong the engine life by reducing wear on the main bearings and main journals and preventing crankshaft failure. The harmonic balancer or the vibration damper is a piece of equipment connected to the crankshaft which job is to lessen the harmonic vibration. Each time a cylinder fires, the connecting rod pounds the crankshaft journal as the force turns the crankshaft, causing energy to be dispersed through the engine. The front of the crankshaft takes the brunt of this power, so it often moves before the back of the crankshaft. This results to a twisting motion and after that, when the power is removed from the front, the halfway twisted shaft unwinds and snaps back in the opposite direction. Even if this “unwinding process” is somewhat diminutive, it causes harmonic vibration.
"This elastomeric material has a dampening function and, mostly important, insulates at best our delicate crank from possible disturbing forces arising from other devices like accessories and Supercharger."
May not be the case, the disturbing forces are the combustion cycle not the accessories / supercharger. Believe me the belts have far more give and slip than the elastomer on a dampener. It is not only OK to direct drive accessories and supercharger but may be preferred as the elastomer would not have to cope with an additional rotational load of the accessories / supercharger.
Here is a excerpt from, http://www.partstrain.com/ShopByDepa...monic_Balancer
Harmonic balancers are designed to prolong the engine life by reducing wear on the main bearings and main journals and preventing crankshaft failure. The harmonic balancer or the vibration damper is a piece of equipment connected to the crankshaft which job is to lessen the harmonic vibration. Each time a cylinder fires, the connecting rod pounds the crankshaft journal as the force turns the crankshaft, causing energy to be dispersed through the engine. The front of the crankshaft takes the brunt of this power, so it often moves before the back of the crankshaft. This results to a twisting motion and after that, when the power is removed from the front, the halfway twisted shaft unwinds and snaps back in the opposite direction. Even if this “unwinding process” is somewhat diminutive, it causes harmonic vibration.
hi, you are certainly more correct than me as I'm not an engineer
I don't know what they studied at AMG ... therefore I simply think that the less we change, the less ne need to study as they did ..
Finally, I'm only looking for a simple and fast method, while reliable, for changing desired SC gear
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srt 6 chrysler crossfire
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No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
Harmonic balancer is primarily to save the crank bearings... AMG app were most concerned about the bearings longevity in this application and I think intentionally made the S/C belt so that it has some slippage. Thats also why I have not gone for the belt wrap kit.
Going for a solid pulley WILL see premature bearing failure / or roasted crank journals... sadly you wont notice the problem for some time until its too late.
Going for a solid pulley WILL see premature bearing failure / or roasted crank journals... sadly you wont notice the problem for some time until its too late.
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From: Italy
cls 55 or FIAT Coupe T20v-6speed
I'm conscious this method needs further studying ..
btw, yesterday evening (because now it's morning here) I went out for a small drive (without any additional ring in my pulley) ... and I was surprised the way my engine was rocketing
... maybe the combination of cold air and fog?
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From: Italy
cls 55 or FIAT Coupe T20v-6speed
Harmonic balancer is primarily to save the crank bearings... AMG app were most concerned about the bearings longevity in this application and I think intentionally made the S/C belt so that it has some slippage. Thats also why I have not gone for the belt wrap kit.
Going for a solid pulley WILL see premature bearing failure / or roasted crank journals... sadly you wont notice the problem for some time until its too late.
Going for a solid pulley WILL see premature bearing failure / or roasted crank journals... sadly you wont notice the problem for some time until its too late.
don't know if there exist direct application without belt
certainly result would be better but I think not for long
... maybe applying the same technology used by BMW on bike's transmission
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From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
When I talk about solid pulley I mean undamped as opposed to gear driven from crank ...Ouch dont even want to think how long gears / internals will last in that type of application...
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From: Italy
cls 55 or FIAT Coupe T20v-6speed
Thread Starter
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From: Italy
cls 55 or FIAT Coupe T20v-6speed
I disn't say they are not .. besides, I like them only, I lack tech knowledge for investigating the consequences of styling
is there anybody able and willing to explain it in a symple way
.. or must go to Wiky
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
VERY COOL!! You made your own pulley??
You really do need to make sure that pulley is 100% balanced. Do not install it without re-balancing it.
You really do need to make sure that pulley is 100% balanced. Do not install it without re-balancing it.
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From: Italy
cls 55 or FIAT Coupe T20v-6speed
thanks ..
I'm still thinking at your new ROSSO outer ring
you should sell that outer ring together with the quasi- stocker 165. just for peace of mind.btw, if in your pulley the civil black 165mm ring would be swapped with the rosso one ... should it loose its balancing and the whole pulley should be balanced again, and how ?
In other words: to what extent swapping a balanced outer ring affect new overall balancing of a formerly correctly balanced pulley ?
best
