*** VR550 for M113 55 Kompressor ***
Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 196
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From: Northern VA
06 e55 wagon
VERY VERY true. That is VRP's exact point. That is also why they do not only rely on dyno data. All a larger pulley does is increase boost. From there, all the various parameters are effected and many are pulled out of their sweet spots. Tuning entails finding each and every one of those parameters and maximizing the sweet spot. True tunes are an absolutely tedious task.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
You don't have long to wait. VRP is going full bore on all their projects and the E55 is one that they are almost done with. There was an interesting thread we had a few weeks back regarding tuners and I argued for PC in that, because I had met them and seen what they were about. They are focussed on MBs, that is all I can say. There is no other way to say it. They could easily have done a minor tune to mine and called it a day, but VRP wanted more. In my case, I get a custom tune. For those that have a similar setup, it is as close to a custom tune as you will be able to get. Like you say, the OPENness and desire to do it right is GREAT!
Banned
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,797
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
That is how VRP came to light, and that is the only way it will continue to operate going forward.
We are always open to suggestions and comments from the community and we value the support that we get from everyone.
We are always open to suggestions and comments from the community and we value the support that we get from everyone.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,498
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From: Dallas
SL65
Just curious, but does the reflash issue affect the SL55 as well? I had an E55 and it had the reflash but it's gone and an SL55 has taken it's place. Was thinking about doing something to it.
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From: Dallas
SL65
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
Hmmm, I really do not know. I'd assume you will have the same issues, but dunno that anyone has been there. Do you know of anyone that has installed a VRP or ASP pulley? Do they have dynos they can provide?
Where are you? If close to Power Chip, they do the money back guarantee AND are honest enough to acknowledge the glitch. Most tuners will tell you to get an IC kit or that the belt is slipping. If you are far, hang back. I am sure this tune will be tsted on all later model 55ks by VRP.
Where are you? If close to Power Chip, they do the money back guarantee AND are honest enough to acknowledge the glitch. Most tuners will tell you to get an IC kit or that the belt is slipping. If you are far, hang back. I am sure this tune will be tsted on all later model 55ks by VRP.
Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 196
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From: Northern VA
06 e55 wagon
I'll be honest, I'm basically on hold with mods until this tuning issue is resolved and VRP completes this package and/or the next level packages with throttle body/headers/airbox, etc.
So get busy over there guys
I had a local Kleemann dealer (Funktion Auto) call Kleemann and they claimed that they were aware of the issue but that the latest flash wasn't a problem for them. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but I'm just going to wait until I hear the final results of the VRP/Powerchip tuning. No matter what, I'll get before and after dynos on the same dyno with A/F and hopefully boost plotted.
So get busy over there guys
I had a local Kleemann dealer (Funktion Auto) call Kleemann and they claimed that they were aware of the issue but that the latest flash wasn't a problem for them. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but I'm just going to wait until I hear the final results of the VRP/Powerchip tuning. No matter what, I'll get before and after dynos on the same dyno with A/F and hopefully boost plotted.
Last edited by joshd; Jan 11, 2008 at 11:14 AM.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 1
From: Dallas
SL65
Hmmm, I really do not know. I'd assume you will have the same issues, but dunno that anyone has been there. Do you know of anyone that has installed a VRP or ASP pulley? Do they have dynos they can provide?
Where are you? If close to Power Chip, they do the money back guarantee AND are honest enough to acknowledge the glitch. Most tuners will tell you to get an IC kit or that the belt is slipping. If you are far, hang back. I am sure this tune will be tsted on all later model 55ks by VRP.
Where are you? If close to Power Chip, they do the money back guarantee AND are honest enough to acknowledge the glitch. Most tuners will tell you to get an IC kit or that the belt is slipping. If you are far, hang back. I am sure this tune will be tsted on all later model 55ks by VRP.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
I'll be honest, I'm basically on hold with mods until this tuning issue is resolved and VRP completes this package and/or the next level packages with throttle body/headers/airbox, etc.
So get busy over there guys
I had a local Kleemann dealer (Funktion Auto) call Kleemann and they claimed that they were aware of the issue but that the latest flash wasn't a problem for them. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but I'm just going to wait until I hear the final results of the VRP/Powerchip tuning. No matter what, I'll get before and after dynos on the same dyno with A/F and hopefully boost plotted.
So get busy over there guys
I had a local Kleemann dealer (Funktion Auto) call Kleemann and they claimed that they were aware of the issue but that the latest flash wasn't a problem for them. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but I'm just going to wait until I hear the final results of the VRP/Powerchip tuning. No matter what, I'll get before and after dynos on the same dyno with A/F and hopefully boost plotted.
Kleeman is indeed aware of the issue. I'm glad it isn't an issue with them. It must just be a Powerchip thing? LOL, tuners are so funny. Call Kleeman and let them know that the days of just saying it is all good are DONE. SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!
By the way, Dyno alone won't do it. VRP is using tons of datalog data as well. You won't have long to wait. I am leaving my car all of next week, so they will get lots of time to dial it in.
Once mine is up and running, lets set up a real life race involving the various tuners. I will rep for VRP. Anyone with a pulley and ECU tune hop in and lets see which one is the "best". VRP has nothing to hide. The only challenge I am curious about will be the VRP pulley + EVOtech tune. All others are lost in the dust (IMO).
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
I won't speak about Kleeman, other than to say that they also had their chance to take advantage of this market about a year ago and they chose the easy way out. Those that had the issues can speak up on how it was handled. RennTech doesn't even have a larger pulley. Also, I have yet to see a properly running Renntech Pulley + ECU on a newer car.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,915
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From: Fremont, Ca
EVOTECH Mercedes AMG
Kleeman is indeed aware of the issue. I'm glad it isn't an issue with them. It must just be a Powerchip thing? LOL, tuners are so funny. Call Kleeman and let them know that the days of just saying it is all good are DONE. SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!
By the way, Dyno alone won't do it. VRP is using tons of datalog data as well. You won't have long to wait. I am leaving my car all of next week, so they will get lots of time to dial it in.
Once mine is up and running, lets set up a real life race involving the various tuners. I will rep for VRP. Anyone with a pulley and ECU tune hop in and lets see which one is the "best". VRP has nothing to hide. The only challenge I am curious about will be the VRP pulley + EVOtech tune. All others are lost in the dust (IMO).
By the way, Dyno alone won't do it. VRP is using tons of datalog data as well. You won't have long to wait. I am leaving my car all of next week, so they will get lots of time to dial it in.
Once mine is up and running, lets set up a real life race involving the various tuners. I will rep for VRP. Anyone with a pulley and ECU tune hop in and lets see which one is the "best". VRP has nothing to hide. The only challenge I am curious about will be the VRP pulley + EVOtech tune. All others are lost in the dust (IMO).
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haters crazy
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'14 ML BT
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
HAHA!!! You all should have to give me a kickback for bringing it up enough to finally have a tuner listen. We are in good hands. I would never even consider leaving my car for R&D with too many people, but Vadim is one. On top of that, I hear good things about Jeremy @ Powerchip so it made it an easy choice.
On a serious note, I think the E55 guys are gonna be pretty happy with the outcome of this even if you don't get a VRP/PC tune. It will FORCE the other tuners to step up and add substance to their tunes.
On a serious note, I think the E55 guys are gonna be pretty happy with the outcome of this even if you don't get a VRP/PC tune. It will FORCE the other tuners to step up and add substance to their tunes.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,990
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From: Bay Area
'10 Porsche Turbo PDK, 500e, GL450
datalogging
I've been saying for ages that Renntech (Oliver) and Evotech (Oliver) have been doing custom tunes... Of course both use datalog data ... how do you think they do a custom tune?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
Now, Powerchip and VRP are starting fresh and doing it right. Vadim has more dat than a solid clinical trial. dataloggers, dynos, etc. he has also identifed exactly the areas that need improvement (which i agree with). PC has been able to change those parameters, but just hasn't been able to get it to Vadim's standards.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,664
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From: SoCal
W221
Hey Jangy...is the pulley/ecu combo yer talkin about the same as the ecu/pulley combo that VRP has been sellin for a while now? Is that gonna be some special pricing? When is the release date for this and how will it differ from what they offer now?
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,137
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From: California, USA
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
This is a very interesting discussion........ but I'm still confused on what the "official" position of all the "major" tuners in regards to this controversial flash. If Kleemann, RennTech, and EvoTech claim that the flash is no problem for them, then a simple dyno on a late model E55 should prove or disprove their claims, right?
Does anybody have a 2006 E55 with a RennTech, EvoTech, or Kleemann tune with a before and after dyno?
Does anybody have a 2006 E55 with a RennTech, EvoTech, or Kleemann tune with a before and after dyno?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,597
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From: Kuwait
CLS55 2006, CLS 63S 2015
Well I can tell you that two cls 06’s here in Kuwait stock, have dynoed in the range of 435 whp and this holds true to vrus claim on later models power outputs.
Jangy do you have any proof that all the other tuners have sub par tunes?
Especially for 06 models? (what do you base your finds on?)
Jangy do you have any proof that all the other tuners have sub par tunes?
Especially for 06 models? (what do you base your finds on?)
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 187
Likes: 3
From: Bay Area, CA
05 E55, 07 SL65, 06 S4
I do think that most of this pulley talk has the physics totally backwards – just read the GM press release on the ZR1 and tell me you were not scratching your head and asking yourself the obvious question: The claim is the latest generation Eaton SC has improved SC efficiency to lower crank pulley power loss from 120 to 80 HP – that is a whooozzee! Imagine to get 40 crank HP simply by means of a more efficient SC!!
Contrast that to the larger pulley approach: Everybody with some physics background remembers that increased delta-p decreases efficiency in an asymptotic function, i.e. in the real world you get ever higher discharge temps, need more parasitic power to achieve ever smaller gains in delta-p to the point where there is no gain anymore, no mater how many miles diameter the pullet is. The challenge than for any serious tuner is to take the SC apart and blueprint that thing to the limits – I am convinced that is where the real power is!
GM will pull 620 HP from an engine design far inferior to the AMG (2 valves vs. 3 valves, 1 sparkplug vs. 2 sparks, overhead vs. in block cams etc) the LS9 is a glorified truck engine (just look at all the GM trucks and vans that use that identical basic engine!) massaged by the immensely capable GM marketing machine – with a better SC!
Contrast that to the larger pulley approach: Everybody with some physics background remembers that increased delta-p decreases efficiency in an asymptotic function, i.e. in the real world you get ever higher discharge temps, need more parasitic power to achieve ever smaller gains in delta-p to the point where there is no gain anymore, no mater how many miles diameter the pullet is. The challenge than for any serious tuner is to take the SC apart and blueprint that thing to the limits – I am convinced that is where the real power is!
GM will pull 620 HP from an engine design far inferior to the AMG (2 valves vs. 3 valves, 1 sparkplug vs. 2 sparks, overhead vs. in block cams etc) the LS9 is a glorified truck engine (just look at all the GM trucks and vans that use that identical basic engine!) massaged by the immensely capable GM marketing machine – with a better SC!
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
I have no clue what they are selling now and for how much. You got details? I was always under the impression that what had been sold to date was a pulley by VRP and an ECU tune from PC, but not a package that had been made together. I know that the work being done on my car is to cater to the people that want pulley and ecu. I will be getting more mods, so the tune will have to be re-done. I am not in on the business side, but knowing them, I would assume that some option wil be given to their current clients to upgrade to the latest and greatest. I don't think that is how they are with just this case.
There is no set release date that I know of. I just think that they will blend in what they learn from my car into all of the data they are aquiring and have. The tune is just not ready for release, yet. Vadim has some very high expectations and I like that, because they were the exact feelings I had with my butt dyno. A tweak here and a twomp there and I will be off to 80mmTB land and beyond!!
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
This is a very interesting discussion........ but I'm still confused on what the "official" position of all the "major" tuners in regards to this controversial flash. If Kleemann, RennTech, and EvoTech claim that the flash is no problem for them, then a simple dyno on a late model E55 should prove or disprove their claims, right?
Does anybody have a 2006 E55 with a RennTech, EvoTech, or Kleemann tune with a before and after dyno?
Does anybody have a 2006 E55 with a RennTech, EvoTech, or Kleemann tune with a before and after dyno?
I do not deal with Kleeman and have nothing good or bad to say, other than I remember thinking that they were holding info back when the flash episode occurred.
As far as EVOtech, read Adam's post. Note he said that he would TUNE a car and then wants to race me with my Powerchip tune. Both cars are to have VRP pulleys. If EVOTech had already worked it all out, I would have been called out already. Still, I would say that EVOTech is at least coming around and joining the enthusiast's fray. Between Adam and Oliver, I think they will be fine.
