*** VRP 5.7L Engine Build ***
02-01-2008, 02:35 AM
#26
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E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
Victor,
I am interested in your opinion on the core value of an E55 drive train. Complete engine, transmission and diff.
I am interested in your opinion on the core value of an E55 drive train. Complete engine, transmission and diff.
02-01-2008, 02:39 AM
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2003 E55 AMG
Engines run between $11K and $18K.. There is a big gap in the price depending on mileage and condition of the pulled motor.
Transmission is $2K - $3K.. I know because we just bought a spare thats getting reinforced right now.
Diff I am not sure about.. I've not priced one out, but I was looking at possibly swapping in a 2005+ rear diff & half shafts on my 03. The 03-04 diffs are smaller 10bolt units from what I remember.. The newer ones are 12bolt and much beefier, so I guess the value depends on which one you have.
Transmission is $2K - $3K.. I know because we just bought a spare thats getting reinforced right now.
Diff I am not sure about.. I've not priced one out, but I was looking at possibly swapping in a 2005+ rear diff & half shafts on my 03. The 03-04 diffs are smaller 10bolt units from what I remember.. The newer ones are 12bolt and much beefier, so I guess the value depends on which one you have.
02-01-2008, 06:53 AM
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05 ML-500 , 03 CLK5.5 AMG has left the Garage
Pistons
Nice forged Piston Victor,, They will be much more durable than the Cast low silicone Mahle. Keep up the good work ? Cheers ___PTEngineering
02-01-2008, 07:34 AM
#32
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[Also notice the differences of the ring lands.. The custom piston has much wider areas for the rings. Look at the size of the oil ring groove (just below the wrist pin opening).
I locked the 2 pistons together with the wrist pin so you can get a good idea of the profile differences between the 2 pistons.
Notice the stock one has only 2 oiling holes where we have 3 on each side.
I'll take some more photos once they have balanced and knife-edged the crank and then I'll follow the progress as they put it all back together.
More to follow...
I locked the 2 pistons together with the wrist pin so you can get a good idea of the profile differences between the 2 pistons.
Notice the stock one has only 2 oiling holes where we have 3 on each side.
I'll take some more photos once they have balanced and knife-edged the crank and then I'll follow the progress as they put it all back together.
More to follow...
Everything looks great
Just one question on the piston, okay three:
1. The oil ring has been cut through on the lands because of the wrist pin, usually this does not make for good longevity, I am assuming there was NO other way. I have built stokers, SB FORDS, sorry guys, for years, and this is a common situation we try to avoid for GOOD longevity of the rings. This can aslo cause a little piston wrap/knock in extreme situations.
2. Please tell me that it is a low tension oil ring. Having a ring that thick, is good for lubrication, but
the drag.3. Last point, your piston was done right from a construction design, ie the drill oil holes, rather than slots. I have seen WAY too many cheap pistons use slotted oil holes, instead of nice round drilled holes, which of coruse fatigue.
ANYWAY, DYING to see the results here, and what a fantastic project my friend
See yeah
02-01-2008, 09:43 PM
#34
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CLS55, BMW 540, SUPRA
Are you concerned about proper head gasket seal with having no cylinder wall between the cylinders? I have a good friend who had a Lambo diablo that he had fully built and turboed. The problem was that it looked just like what i am seeing here. There was virtually no cylinder wall so it constantly had head gasket issues and that was despite using ARP L19 studs, MLS, etc etc. The car eventually burned to a crisp idling at a traffic light. It was a gorgeous Diablo.
02-01-2008, 11:32 PM
#36
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E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
Are you concerned about proper head gasket seal with having no cylinder wall between the cylinders? I have a good friend who had a Lambo diablo that he had fully built and turboed. The problem was that it looked just like what i am seeing here. There was virtually no cylinder wall so it constantly had head gasket issues and that was despite using ARP L19 studs, MLS, etc etc. The car eventually burned to a crisp idling at a traffic light. It was a gorgeous Diablo.
Good point the bore has changed, smaller sealing surface and will be exposed to higher cylinder pressures.
Fly cut heads & copper ring. Just one solution. Of course the deck must be .0000
02-02-2008, 07:15 AM
#38
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Another cause of blown head gaskets on a fi motor is sometimes the actual head deck thickness which gets overlooked a lot, this is especially true when adding fi to a n/a motor.
02-02-2008, 08:02 AM
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96 and 08 911 turbos
Hey vrus:
Everything looks great
Just one question on the piston, okay three:
1. The oil ring has been cut through on the lands because of the wrist pin, usually this does not make for good longevity, I am assuming there was NO other way. I have built stokers, SB FORDS, sorry guys, for years, and this is a common situation we try to avoid for GOOD longevity of the rings. This can aslo cause a little piston wrap/knock in extreme situations.
2. Please tell me that it is a low tension oil ring. Having a ring that thick, is good for lubrication, butthe drag.
3. Last point, your piston was done right from a construction design, ie the drill oil holes, rather than slots. I have seen WAY too many cheap pistons use slotted oil holes, instead of nice round drilled holes, which of coruse fatigue.
ANYWAY, DYING to see the results here, and what a fantastic project my friend
See yeah
Everything looks great
Just one question on the piston, okay three:
1. The oil ring has been cut through on the lands because of the wrist pin, usually this does not make for good longevity, I am assuming there was NO other way. I have built stokers, SB FORDS, sorry guys, for years, and this is a common situation we try to avoid for GOOD longevity of the rings. This can aslo cause a little piston wrap/knock in extreme situations.
2. Please tell me that it is a low tension oil ring. Having a ring that thick, is good for lubrication, but
the drag.3. Last point, your piston was done right from a construction design, ie the drill oil holes, rather than slots. I have seen WAY too many cheap pistons use slotted oil holes, instead of nice round drilled holes, which of coruse fatigue.
ANYWAY, DYING to see the results here, and what a fantastic project my friend
See yeah
Those pistons look interesting. Are you concerned that the ribbing on the top will cause hot spots?
02-02-2008, 12:46 PM
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2003 E55 AMG
no cylinder wall ?? The bore didnt change by that much. We only increased the displacement of the motor by 0.2L.. Not to mention there are iron sleeves in there now which will take alot more abuse.
I've seen similar setups on alot of different cars running much higher power than I want to push through it and not having any issues.
In the end, this is a unique engine setup as I don't think anyone has done this to a MB 55 motor yet. I guess we'll see how well it works once the motor is dropped in and the car is tuned.
This technical stuff is over my head.. I'll ask the guys that are doing the work and get back to you.
Not sure.. I have to ask and find out..
I've seen similar setups on alot of different cars running much higher power than I want to push through it and not having any issues.
In the end, this is a unique engine setup as I don't think anyone has done this to a MB 55 motor yet. I guess we'll see how well it works once the motor is dropped in and the car is tuned.
Are you concerned about proper head gasket seal with having no cylinder wall between the cylinders? I have a good friend who had a Lambo diablo that he had fully built and turboed. The problem was that it looked just like what i am seeing here. There was virtually no cylinder wall so it constantly had head gasket issues and that was despite using ARP L19 studs, MLS, etc etc. The car eventually burned to a crisp idling at a traffic light. It was a gorgeous Diablo.
Originally Posted by MRAMG1
Hey vrus:
Everything looks great
Just one question on the piston, okay three:
1. The oil ring has been cut through on the lands because of the wrist pin, usually this does not make for good longevity, I am assuming there was NO other way. I have built stokers, SB FORDS, sorry guys, for years, and this is a common situation we try to avoid for GOOD longevity of the rings. This can aslo cause a little piston wrap/knock in extreme situations.
2. Please tell me that it is a low tension oil ring. Having a ring that thick, is good for lubrication, but the drag.
3. Last point, your piston was done right from a construction design, ie the drill oil holes, rather than slots. I have seen WAY too many cheap pistons use slotted oil holes, instead of nice round drilled holes, which of coruse fatigue.
ANYWAY, DYING to see the results here, and what a fantastic project my friend
See yeah
Everything looks great
Just one question on the piston, okay three:
1. The oil ring has been cut through on the lands because of the wrist pin, usually this does not make for good longevity, I am assuming there was NO other way. I have built stokers, SB FORDS, sorry guys, for years, and this is a common situation we try to avoid for GOOD longevity of the rings. This can aslo cause a little piston wrap/knock in extreme situations.
2. Please tell me that it is a low tension oil ring. Having a ring that thick, is good for lubrication, but the drag.
3. Last point, your piston was done right from a construction design, ie the drill oil holes, rather than slots. I have seen WAY too many cheap pistons use slotted oil holes, instead of nice round drilled holes, which of coruse fatigue.
ANYWAY, DYING to see the results here, and what a fantastic project my friend
See yeah
Originally Posted by rflow306
Victor correct me if I'm wrong but the new pistons look like they use a chevy style ring pack. What kind of comp rings are you using tool steel ?
Thanks
Thanks
02-02-2008, 02:32 PM
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2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
Are you concerned about proper head gasket seal with having no cylinder wall between the cylinders? I have a good friend who had a Lambo diablo that he had fully built and turboed. The problem was that it looked just like what i am seeing here. There was virtually no cylinder wall so it constantly had head gasket issues and that was despite using ARP L19 studs, MLS, etc etc. The car eventually burned to a crisp idling at a traffic light. It was a gorgeous Diablo.
The picture is at an angle, but as you can see, the Cylinder Wall in the 5.7 is basically the same.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/228751-vr700-m113-kompressor.html
Last edited by Havoc; 02-02-2008 at 08:16 PM.
02-10-2008, 02:10 AM
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2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
Transplantation
Hey Victor, This One Is On Me! 
Cheers!
Cheers!
Last edited by Havoc; 02-10-2008 at 02:13 AM.
02-12-2008, 06:55 PM
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72 450SL
This might be a premature question, but in terms of comfort, how will the car drive after such modifications. I was thinking of doing a K4 upgrade, because Kleemann emphasizes their focus on "comfort power". However, I do want to get the best out of my E.
02-12-2008, 10:23 PM
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2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
I think the only difference one will find is the RPMs will climb faster since the bottom is lighter and the crank is knife-edged and the Stage 3 Heads will create a stronger pulse and add to the top end power. However, you can always drive in comfort mode to keep the RPMs down and calm the Beast. But when you drive in sport mode at WOT, a New Beast will emerge! I won't comment on Kleemann and their "Comfort Power", but I will be in my "Comfort Zone" because I own the most powerful 55 Kompressor ever built!
If you are serious about getting the best and gaining the most out of your 55 Kompressor, then this is by far the way to go. Especially if you want to add some serious boost later, then the 5.7 bottom is a must and will allow you to thrash it with confidence!
Last edited by Havoc; 02-13-2008 at 01:37 PM.
02-13-2008, 12:19 AM
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2003 E55 AMG
The first trial assembly went well.. they did piston to deck checking.. It was then dissassembled and yesterday they decked the block.
The balancing and knife-edging of crank was being done today as well as reassembly to do piston-to-valve clearance checking..
If that all goes well, it will be on its way to being fully assembled.. I was told within a week or two it will be complete.
More updates to follow..
The balancing and knife-edging of crank was being done today as well as reassembly to do piston-to-valve clearance checking..
If that all goes well, it will be on its way to being fully assembled.. I was told within a week or two it will be complete.
More updates to follow..
02-20-2008, 11:33 AM
#47
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2003 E55 AMG
Just got a call that the clearancing and trial assembly was completed and everything is perfect.. Lots of clearance so no issues there..
They are balancing and assembling the bottom end.. Shouldn't be too much longer now...
-------------------------
It's a bit too early right now.. Once I get everything put together and tally up all the bills I will have an idea.. Havoc basically has a blank check put aside for the build so once all is said and done, I can give you a good idea on what the price will be for the next one.
They are balancing and assembling the bottom end.. Shouldn't be too much longer now...
-------------------------
It's a bit too early right now.. Once I get everything put together and tally up all the bills I will have an idea.. Havoc basically has a blank check put aside for the build so once all is said and done, I can give you a good idea on what the price will be for the next one.
03-04-2008, 11:11 AM
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2003 E55 AMG
Had a chance to go through all my pics and post some of the latest ones for you guys to see the progress...
Here are a few shots showing the clearancing procedure..
These are the piston-to-deck checking..
Here we have the piston-to-valve checking. The bigger valves clear with no problem, and there is even enough material depth to show that I can go a little more aggressive with the cams too.. Maybe a more radical VRP cam is in the near future..
These are a few pics of the crankshaft after it got knife-edged...
Here are the rods getting balanced...
Now its the crank's turn to get balanced...
Here are a few shots showing the clearancing procedure..
These are the piston-to-deck checking..
Here we have the piston-to-valve checking. The bigger valves clear with no problem, and there is even enough material depth to show that I can go a little more aggressive with the cams too.. Maybe a more radical VRP cam is in the near future..
These are a few pics of the crankshaft after it got knife-edged...
Here are the rods getting balanced...
Now its the crank's turn to get balanced...
03-04-2008, 11:11 AM
#49
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2003 E55 AMG
A couple of shots of the ported oil pump...
Here is the before pic..
Here is the after pic.. we opened up the passage.. there were some other mods done to the internals but I dont have any pics of that..
Cleaning up the block and getting it ready for assembly...
Starting the assembly procedure...
Here is a picture of one of the pistons showing the rings in place..
Dropping the piston into place...
Crank is in place...
And here she is with the heads and everything else put together...
All of the parts in the bottom end that are wear items were replaced... New crank sprockets, new bolts, new chains for cams and oil pump, new everything...
The engine should be complete by this week and on its way to California for installation... Stay tuned!
(Keith: Are you excited yet?)
Here is the before pic..
Here is the after pic.. we opened up the passage.. there were some other mods done to the internals but I dont have any pics of that..
Cleaning up the block and getting it ready for assembly...
Starting the assembly procedure...
Here is a picture of one of the pistons showing the rings in place..
Dropping the piston into place...
Crank is in place...
And here she is with the heads and everything else put together...
All of the parts in the bottom end that are wear items were replaced... New crank sprockets, new bolts, new chains for cams and oil pump, new everything...
The engine should be complete by this week and on its way to California for installation... Stay tuned!
(Keith: Are you excited yet?)
03-04-2008, 11:16 AM
#50
