skooby

Take it to another MB dealer, they are not connected by computer and shouldn't be sharing info. They do not need to open the hood, so how could they tell.

Skeeter

Skooby, another dealership will type in my VIN and see the service 8 status and contact either the current dealer or the regional rep that denied coverage in the first place. The service 8 is in the MBUSA system and all dealers will see it and contact the regional rep to get an 'ok' on any future repairs. Given that the regional rep is the guy who denied coverage in the first place...

I'm going to give them one last chance to deal with a polite customer who wants the warranty service that cars this expensive deserve. If they do the right thing and fix my car, I'll head to their sales department with an eye towards trading it in on a CLS63 (or a cls55 if I can find one!).

If they don't, I'll take a few days off work, collect data on the cars that have done this STOCK and been fixed under warranty, and start doing this the hard way. I'll start with MBUSA for arbitration and end retaining one of several law firms or local attorneys I know personally who do this stuff if needed.

Because of the applicable consumer laws, I'll get attorney's fees awarded when I win, so they won't scare me off on that basis.

Basically, I have nothing whatsoever to loose by going after them if they stand on their decision. Not ONE PERSON at the dealership has opined that this is a fair decision except for the service manager. I wish I could get them to testify, but I don't want to cost anyone their job so I'll build a case without their testimony.

Anyway, I'll calm down (not) for a week until the regional guy comes back from vacation. Hopefully he'll be tan and rested and ready to fix the substitute's bad decisions and repair the reputation of this dealership. If not, cry havok!

Meanwhile, let this be a cautonary tale for all. Never thought I'd be here, not with the E55, not with a BENZ!

Thanks to all,

Skeeter

jrcart

Skeeter; I wish you the best wish this issue. Why don't you post some of the exact details of the problem (what broke) so others on here can see it, maybe some of them had similar issues. We can also be very powerful by acting together and all of us asking our local dealerships if they have seen any vehicles with the same problem. If we find a large number of people with the problem and MB is trying to just sweep it under the rug, we can make things very difficult for MB. Hell, show them this thread, let them see how many concerned and p_ssed off consumers there are. We can use the Forum as a powerful tool. This is the ideal way to get the word out to a large group of people that may have had this problem or know of someone who has. Take advantage of all of these resources.

cjf_moraga

Yikes - sorry to hear about this ridiculous situation Skeeter... especially as we are very close neighbors and use/visit the same dealer(s)... (though I have had good service myself) This prompts me to pose a more general question to this group...

Is there anywhere a list of "mod friendly" dealers beyond casual references or word of mouth? I have been considering a Rentech upgrade myself.. but this situation and the whole Evotech thread of a few weeks back definitely makes me nervous...

Chris

moosejaw

Hey Skeeter
I was under the impression using Renntech parts do not void your warranty, as a matter of fact i was told this by a salesman and a service writer at Mercedes Benz of Fort Lauderale. As a matter of fact a bunch of us C32 owners want to overpay for a renntech setup over a LET or evosport package because of this safety net????

Today I took my car to get my broken foglight looked at, they declined as they said the Sylvannia 9006 bulb is an aftermarket part and cannot work on the car. They did confirm it was a dead socket which had nothing to do with hte bulb. But they cant work on it anyways.

jrcart

Oh ya, those Sylvania high performance bulbs....you have to be kidding! You are kidding right? They did not cover your warranty becuase of a light bulb???? What is MB doing? They are shooting themselves in the foot with this kind of petty garbage. I can understand not honoring a warranty on a car with heavy mods, I'm 1000% sure I technically have no more warranty on my Black Series with 1600 miles on it because of all of the major mods I am making. Even still the guys at the dealership are fully aware of the mods I am doing and have been following the build on this website, but they even told me that if something does break they will submit under warranty and at least try to get it covered for me. It's no money out of the dealrships pocket, they get reimbursed from MB for most or all of the covered warranty charges and they keep a happy customer.

If MB starts this kind of garbage I will just go back and start buying BMW's again, they covered everything I brought them. They even covered something on one of my older BMW's that was over the milage by about 5,000 and should have been out of warranty.

I like the idea from a previous post, we need to start a list of "mod friendly" dealerships. The only problem I see with that is that I'm sure reps from MB monitor these forums and they would end up keeping a much closer eye on those dealships.

Andy0331

I think this is the issue. MB reimburses the dealership for warranty work & the dealership profits from the labor charges. If the technician is at fault for stripping/ripping this bolt out, MB will not cover it for the dealership. Simply put, the dealership is trying to save themselves money by avoiding the repair. If or when the regional rep inspects the car, he will likely find that it was damaged by technician incompetence & let the dealership cover the repair themselves & reinstate the warranty.


To the OP: I would try to deal with them (regional rep & MBUSA), but I'd be damned if I'd offer to trade in the car on a high dollar item like a CL AMG. This would just reward their turd-like behavior. Screw them! I think I would hold firm at "FIX IT!" If you want a CL, I'd go for one after all this is cleared up and certainly from a different dealer.

Schiznick

[QUOTE=Andy0331;2664481]I think this is the issue. MB reimburses the dealership for warranty work & the dealership profits from the labor charges. If the technician is at fault for stripping/ripping this bolt out, MB will not cover it for the dealership. Simply put, the dealership is trying to save themselves money by avoiding the repair. If or when the regional rep inspects the car, he will likely find that it was damaged by technician incompetence & let the dealership cover the repair themselves & reinstate the warranty.


This is a good comment. If the damage appears to be caused by the dealership then your true beef is with them. Everything they are doing is to try and get themselves out of this mess with as little cost as possible. It makes all of the other comments really moot.

This may not be about MBUSA at all, this is about a dealer that screwed up your car and is trying to blame you for it. The tech "MAY" not have even realized that he caused the problem by trying to remove the bolt. The quickly becomes a he said, she said situation. The comments about mod friendly dealers is a good one.

Most dealers I think would have just fixed this under warranty and gotten paid for it by MBUSA.

Why do you think they went through all of the trouble of trying to screw you? Dealers are famous for taking the easy way out and this is clearly not the easy way......

Skeeter

Schiznick, my research has provided a few clues as to why I'm getting this treatment. First, the possible tech-screwup. Second, aparently the normal regional rep that decides how to procedd with 'irregular' failures is on vacation. The service manager (who has not been friendly so far) aparently PHONED the substitute guy who denied the repair OVER THE PHONE. Without even looking at the damage. I was told that he ordered the tech and service managers to find a mod and look for any reason to deny coverage. Why? Becuase the repair isn't a simple part-swap. It will need to go out of the dealer and to a body and frame shop for a ~$4k repair. They want to wiggle out of this for that reason, it appears.

Hopefully, when the full-time regional supervisor comes back, the dealership will appeal this to him and he'll change the decision, given the minor nature of my mod and the severe failure. No way a simple pulley caused such a huge bolt to tear out of the body. I never have taken it to a track and don't abuse the car at all. No way such a heavy duty part should have failed.

So far I've found one or two instances of the same problems with STOCK cars, covered under warranty! So I have one or two arrows in my quiver. More would be VERY helpful, no question. I posted some pics on the first page of the thread but they aren't very clear (phone camera + bad lighting).

But I found some more pictures on another thread (that JRocket posted) that shows similar damage. I'm posting the pictures that show the part that failed: the main bolt that goes through the sub frame and bolts into the body (drivers side rear). The bolt tore through and is intact; it is the body that is damaged, with the treads pulling through and ripping out.

Yes, another one or two instances of this happening and being covered under warranty would make this all but a slam-dunk. All points bulletin for rear subframe to body bolt/threading failures! Post anything you find

Thanks again, y'all!

Skeeter

Skeeter

Oh, Moosejaw, I'm also confused! I konw several dealerships who install Renntech parts themselves, and there is all sorts of confusing as to what this does to warranty coverage. I've also been told that there was no warranty implications, but nothing in writing

Bottom line is that this is a VERY mild mod by all accounts, and nowhere near enough to cause this. No way.

Skeeter

jangy

Have you asked that he take a ride with you? DO NOT take the car from that dealer without someone in the car with you for a road test!

Skeeter

I haven't had it fixed yet, so it is still sitting at the dealer. I'm going to leave it there until the regional rep who normally decides whether or not to cover the damage under warranty is back. It turns out he was on vacation last week and a substitute denied coverage, OVER THE PHONE no less. Sheesh...

Jangy, are you suggesting I should drive the car around now, before the repair?

Thanks,

Skeeter

Skeeter

I tell you, there are two CLASS individuals at the dealership who have kept me from going the hard route immediately. First, my service advisor, who has been even tempered and told me about the 'service 8'. He has urged me NOT to lititgate, but instead to try and resolve this issue within the dealership. A class act all the way, he has given me hope that this might get taken care of without me having to resort to a lawsuit or the likes.

Second is the guy who is taking my side on the technical side of things. He basically told me that this was a bad decision and in no way could be tracked back to the pulley, that the decision was internal, etc. Again, hope that this was a bad decision which will be reversed.

I'm going to give the dealership a chance to win back my trust, but were it not for these two, I'd have taken this to my attorney immediately.

I'll keep you posted,

Skeeter

CWW

FWIW...

You have a positive outlook, but you ought to realize that hiring an attorney at this point isn't going to hurt your position any. Quite the reverse, actually, I think they're giving you the old run-around and hoping you get sick of dealing with it and bite the bullet.

Legally speaking, especially since you now have found two other people whose unmodified cars suffered the same failure, you have an airtight case. Additionally, because you are acting on a breach of contract, you should be entitled to loss of use as well as fees and costs, so it's not like it's guna cost you anything.

I say get the lawyer now and move on. They've already shown their true colors, and there's no sense in you living with all the uncertainty and having to crawl around on your knees begging for them to do what they are supposed to do anyway. It's ridic.

Skeeter

Ok, just got off the phone with the service manager who had previously told me the claim wouldn't be covered under warranty. And sure enough, we are going to have to go over the dealer's head and work directly with MBUSA.

He essentially did a 'pass the buck' and claimed that decision was made 100% by MBUSA. He said that it was his responsibility as a dealership to report any modifications found and that MBUSA then marks the car in their system. He said that MBSF had no say in the matter and that the decision to deny coverage under warranty was made entirely at the national/corporate level.

I asked him to give me the name of the person who denied the repair and he said that he didn't know, and that I should contact customer service and take it up with them. Please...

Regarding the 'status 8', he said the only way to remove this would be to replace the factory pulley and have a complete tear-down done on the engine and transmisssion to ensure that no damage had been done by the pulley. That or replace the entire driveline.

When I told him that the pulley added like 5% more power and that I know stock cars that have suffered the same failure and repair fixed under warranty, he came up with some seriously absurd replies.

First he tried to argue that the 5% was the straw the broke the camel's back. Then, get this, he said that Renntech includes software that lets you put the car in 'dyno mode' and allow the car to do huge burnouts, which are very damaging to the car and this might have been the cause of the breakage. WTF?! Where do they get this crap? I've NEVER done burnouts in that car, NEVER. Renntech dyno mode... It'd be funny if it weren't $ on the line.

Basically he insisted that he had no say in the matter and everything was done by MBUSA. I told him that he was going to cost his dealership not only my next car, but that my family has been buying from them for decades and would be looking elsewhere in the future based on this experience. Of course, his reply was that his hands are tied and this was determined by MBUSA and that punishing the dealership for this was unfair of me.

Then he called me back five minutes later to tell me that his dealership spent $1000 in labor to diagnose the problem and that he wouldn't be reimbursed by MBUSA, doing a 'we are in the same boat, buddy' kind of thing. The entire conversation reeked of dishonesty. Seriously awful customer service experience.

My only question now is how to proceed. Do I pay them to fix it and litigate afterwards, or do I keep the car on a lift as I fight? I can't imagine being without my primary car for the month(s) it'll take to sort out. Nor can I figure out how I'd find the time to take it elsewhere to get fixed. ARGH!

Skeeter

Yacht Master

+1

I know you are pi$$ed off, and understand that I am not trying to stir the pot but, I see the classic good guy, bad guy going on. You may think your 2 inside guys are on your side. (think about that) What is in it for them......? I think they are the damage control and you are being handled. These guys practice all the possible scenarios on a daily basis and they are good at it.
I agree with CWW load your guns.

Opinions are worth what you pay for them, and I am of the opinion that you should Hit em all, FIRST. But that is just me preemptive

Skeeter

Yacht Master,

Gotta trust me on this one, there is NO WAY they are working in concert. And no benefit gained if they were. We are back to square one and now I need to figure out whether to have the car fixed (and have this dealership bill me) and sue/pursue remedy with MBUSA or store the car while I chase them for resolution.

Skeeter

MB_Forever

Do NOT fix the car. It may become harder later on to prove certain things in case such need arises. Demand a physical inspection by regional rep who denied the service and be present when he/she comes to look at the car. Then if the regional rep still denies it, get it in writing and start litigation. Hit them hard...... This is no way to treat a loyal customer

Bullet Tooth

I have avoided injecting myself into this discussion for several reasons, mostly because I don't want to be the know it all new guy. But, I am sorry to admit that I am a lawyer and I have represented several car dealerships over the years. So, I decided to finally speak up. With that said, you need to get as many pictures as you can of the problem, immediately.

After reading this thread, it appears to me that the central dispute is the cause of the failed connector. Several on here have offered varying reasons for the failure, including negligent repairs, metal fatigue and the one offered by the dealership, inordinate torque caused by your modifications. It will not be difficult for an expert to determine the actual problem and conjecture will not be a problem. In fact, I believe you will be able to find several people to testify about their opinion on the cause of the failure, from a body shop owner to an employee for a bolt manufacturer, or an engineer.

The reason for the abundance of photos is to make sure that the car stays in the same condition as it is today. Using a hypothetical, if I were the dealership and knew that my tech had screwed up, I would want to make sure that screw up was not obvious. An unscrupulous dealer might try to "hide" the damage done by his tech. There are several posts on this forum alone, alerting them to the fact that you will be able to figure that out. So, at a minimum, take pictures so that you will feel comfortable that the circumstances on the car do not change. No one will accuse you of being paranoid if you find out later they are really after you.

In short, do not drive the car, take many pictures (including close-ups of all relevant parts) try to get as many of the broken pieces that are not attached to the car in your hands and then deal with the MB people.

Sorry if I offend, but that is what I would instruct a client to do, if I were representing them.

Yacht Master

Skeeter don't take me wrong, I do trust your judgment. My post was cautionary in nature, only cause I have seen this before.

square one = catch 22

Skeeter

Bullet, thanks for the advice. Though I can't imagine what a HUGE PITA it'll be to secure expert testimony of the variety you contemplate.

Yacht, I've been told SO MUCH by my tech source that will sink the dealer's case if we litigate that there is simply no way that he is part of a scheme to keep me running in circles. He told me that the service manager is full of it and I'll crush him in court based on what he saw of my car.

Great advice regarding the pictures. But can't I have the body shop take before and after pics as well, and preserve the bolt while I'm at it? Aparently the car is back off the lift and there is a liner that covers the damaged body area that'd need to be removed.

Guess I'll see what answer I get from MBUSA when I call them tomorrow. On the one hand I need the car to get looked at by the regional rep, on the other I've been told the regional rep already denied coverage b/c of the pulley and that is the sole reason for the denial. The regional rep never even looked at the car or the damage before denying the claim!

Yes, MB of San Francisco is NOT a mod (or customer) friendly dealership, to say the least. Avoid them like the plague.

The service manager basically told me that he would report K&N air filters to MBUSA if he saw them and that this alone might cause MBUSA to flag your car! Unreal...

Damn, I'm feeling crazy hemmed up on this. Awful...

Fun fun fun FUN!

Skeeter

deaguero

Man, it's good to see your post here!!!!

Skeeter

Jrock, we really are happy to see you posting again... Some scary stuff! Glad you are at least enjoying your old hobby, if only by keyboard, sharing knowledge and helping a wayward MB victim

Thanks again, Jrock.

Skeeter

jangy

Call the dealershipand ask the service manager to take a ride in the car with you so that you can be assured that it did not happen while the car was there.

In the meantime ask to speak to the regional service manager AND call MBUSA. Only one person is in contact with that guy over at MBUSA and it is the regional service manager.

Come on skeeter, you are getting caught up. Do what I am asking you to in the sequence and it will get taken care of. You are allowing them to buy time.

Getting the testimony that the gentleman speaks of is EXTREMELY easy (hehe, I just found out). The law firms which specialize in these types of cases basically have a slew of experts that they use on a continuous basis. This will not go to court, but stop "talking" with the service manager. He is a conduit ONLY.

Skeeter

Right on, Jangy. I'm on it Monday, as you suggest: test ride with the lead tech, then I'll store the car while I pursure contact with the regional manager and MBUSA. If I don't get a friendly response by end-of-week, we'll go the legal route and file a claim.

Thanks,
Skeeter