J 2OOI

+1million

Jon2007E63P30

Mo, the difference is that now we can argue our butts off and no one gets damaged. EE is out of business. If people start getting personal then I will stop it.

I find it hilarious that people are actually back to argueing about "the incident". My point is about the behavior on the forum which I had been frustrated about for some time.

Fact: Ballzy is driving his car around. Hard.
Fact: EE is out of business. I hope we all buy his inventory so he can live.
Fact: This forum is not the one to decide if EE is liable for any of the problems Ballzy had.
Fact: We don't have all the facts and the ONLY one on this web who has the right to them is Ballzy who has also gotten silent on this topic and I applaud his restraint. His silence implies he is still not happy with EE and that is OK.
Fact: The whole discussion changed my mind to get a tune right now and so no tuner got my business (it would have been EE because of their location)

So I will let this run a little. Why? Because I said at the beginning, this is a flame at those who would not give a couple of nice guys a chance to take care of things before they were condemed.

ROCKETW19

First off guy stop with the bold print I aint your kid dont yell at me unless you wanna talk in person!
second YES Adam would replace my whole damm engine that was talked about many times you have no clue about his hook ups or what WE talked about. you should make remarks to stuff you know about not what you think!
Third we will never know what will happen now unless I buy a F-car and move to germany.lol that wont happen.

SLK55R

Ted I know you have gone thru some horrific experiences but to just say all tuners would treat you the way you have been treated is incorrect.

If my engine imploded would I expect adam to cover it ... actually only if it was due to faulty installation by adam. If it wasn't due to fault installation I would expect RENNTECH to cover it.

Again let me give you an example :

I had a whine coming from the engine compartment. The techs first said it was the supercharger and when I called Renntech they had already set up a time to have someone take a look at it and send me a new one. It ended up just being the idler pulley which they said they would pay for. I said forget it ... it was only 100 bucks or so. But the response from Renntech was immediate ... if its the supercharger will we send one out immediately. Sorry this isn't an example of an engine imploding but the supercharger isn't cheap.
Do I think Renntech would step up to the plate if it was the engine? Absolutely.

Going by your theory ... we should just say no to all mods forever. We should say no to all tuners with no exception ... including the current golden child VRUS.

Jon2007E63P30

So how did the forum support them? What a bummer. All we had to do is to comiserate with Ballzy because his favorite toy broke, wish both parties the best of luck in resolving the problem.

That is what we do when someone looses control of their car at 100MPH in conditions a professional driver would have never exceeded 50MPH. We don't sit there telling them what an idiot they were for being a whole hell of a lot more screwed up (negligent?) then EE may have been.

Now I do have to admit that some of the poser rants have been worth a bag of popcorn.

JAYCL600

this is going nowhere fast, this has been discussed here to the nth degree, youre beating a horse thats been dead, move on please

Jon2007E63P30

You were reviewing the old thread just like I was.

Yes, I was looking for what you had said.

All I can say is... you get it.

neveo

i will no longer spend too much money for little HP gains by modding an expensive car, ... going to ebay motors and will find a yugo to spend a few dollars modding and if it blows up....who cares.

Zod

I have to agree with allot that is said above...allot of people are replaying with more emotion than logical rational answers.

You got treated well you are happy, nothing really bad has happened to you so you are good.

Fact remains several other members LOST their cars or had to sell them, maybe some do not understand the magnitude of this, car went bye bye. This is not a little thing.

And the main problem was allot of people were hush hush, or take it to PM's WHYYY?

why would you want some one else to go through the same thing?
Even if it is just a small chance people have a right to know what they are getting into.

When posts are made they give off the impression of your experience, and thusly you are making it public and people to a degree will trust that information. By not disclosing other facts you are endangering them and others.

This is a public forum and you share your experiences Pleasant or Bad
running away from facts / staying quite / taking it to PM's, demanding threads get locked....

Ted Baldwin

..........+1

.........People need to know very clearly that contrary to what they hear from vendors and tuners and their fan clubs: If you have an engine catastrophe, NONE of the tuners will get you a new engine, period. This not a tirade against tuners. Even if they want to, they can't afford to. They are just little shops here and there that have neither the deep pockets nor the insurance to help. So the customer is taking a very big risk. As a result, I very strongly strongly believe that we all owe it to each other to inform each other when we have problems with parts, vendors or tuners.

........Again, contrary to all the hoopla you are indeed taking a very big risk in modding your engine and transmission. It is a lot of fun, but you WILL be the one holding the bag if stuff goes wrong. Trying to pretend that this is not true is really dishonest and a great diservice to other forum members.

Ted

MB_Forever

I understand what you're saying, but Adam is not completely out. He may still decide to come back and start up again. He may even come back stronger than before. Continuing to argue over this WILL definately hurt him and his future business. Hopefully no more damage will occur, but you never know when things get out of hand. That's why I closed my previous thread....... because it started to get out of control !

MB_Forever

I truely believe people should share their tuner experiences with other members on the boards so we can learn from others experiences. It doesn't have to be a bashful review or one that's full of negative attacks, it should simply be just the experience as the one goes through it. If for example, I run into a problem after upgrading my car, then I would mention "we ran into a problem after installing my upgrades, but tuner X is working on a resolution, or we tried this, but didn't work and now we're trying that, etc..." If after a while, tuner X gives up and won't stand up to their claims, then I would mention that. And likewise, if tuner X fixes the problem, I would also state such actions. This allows other people to filter through a lot of the clutter out there, and basically learn from each other's experiences.

SLK55R

There is no IFs here ... they are definitely out. Adam is delivering all my stored eq to my house on Friday.

MB_Forever

But he may still decide to come back after a year and start up again

SLK55R

doubt it ... he won't be in the country even in a month or so.

MB_Forever

That is sad........ all because of one incident? I hope he knows that although one customer may not be happy with him or like him, there are plenty others who do and would still do business with him.

Jon2007E63P30

Nope. Because of the response of this forum toward him and EE. Which is what I said in the first post.

MB_Forever

Yeah, but the response was mixed...... Not all were bad. I would say a few were bad, but most were good (very good). In fact, I would say majority on his side and minority with Balzzy, no?

SLK55R

any negative feedback on a forum will have repercussions to online revenue. Since they were not raping their clients ... they could not survive off just the local clients.

Thats why if a tuner/shop is good one and willing to fix/resolve any issues that come up, I don't post the negatives on a board. The impact can be too severe.

If you look at the history of ballsy's thread it was more far reaching than just that thread. You then had people slamming EE on other threads etc. and saying that Evotech tune was crap ... blah blah blah.

ROCKETW19

I agree 100% this fourm can make or break a small company like that!

neveo

kind of like yelling fire in a movie theater... somehow people have become convinced that everything they read is true and for the most part people online can be quick to judge , even without all the facts... sometimes guilty people get what they deserve and quite often innocent people are destroyed...

Timeless

You guys do seem to be leaving out the possibility that his company was at fault and he is bugging out before the lawsuits hit.

Playing Devil's Advocate here.

Not to mention there are SEVERAL other MB websites he could go sponsor for besides this one.

zoink

This is my take...

What I know, the issue was started w/ Ballzy and his cousin. 5 issues that he brought up:
1. S55: S/C failed after Evotech tune
2. S65: Transmission failed after Evotech tune
3. S65: Bumper mishap
4. Outrageous waiting/completion time
5. Wrong brake pads

I'll cover short things first:
#3. Who knows whose fault it was. It could be there before the car was dropped off at EE, it could be EE's fault, it could be towing company's fault, it could be dealer's fault. Who knows... But: This has nothing to do w/ products that EE/Evotech was selling.

#4. It's subjective. I myself wouldn't expect to get stage 1 or TCU upgrade done in 1 day, regardless whether EE promised 1 day. I just recently got new brakes. They told me it would take 1.5-2 hours. In the end, it took close to 3 hours to finish. I could complain if I want to...

#5. Well, it shouldn't be a big deal. Regardless whether EE first claimed they were the right pads or not, in the end, they got it right. Time wasted, yes. Raising red flag, may be. Should be made a big deal, I don't think so.

#1 & #2 were the biggest and stickiest ones. Ballzy/his cousin and EE/Evotech could continue point fingers.

But the bottom line:
Unless one party hires a professional & independent expert, no one knows for sure (fail parts were already weak and on their way out vs. Evotech tune was bad vs. both).

Current facts:
Ballzy and his cousin are still running Evotech tune. They went to tracks and had street racing multiple times. No more S/C and transmission failures. And Ballzy's track times look very good. My logic tells me if it was Evotech tune that caused S/C and transmission failures, shouldn't the failures have happened again?

I know there were 2-3 members here had some issues w/ their cars and they blamed it on Evotech tune. On the other side, there are also numerous members w/ Evotech tune, including myself, who don't have any issues. Most recent example is Higginsbeach's car. His dyno and A/F curves look good.

Final conclusion: Your call.

I think EE closure was due to:
1. Loss of confidence in the forum due to unnecessary and exaggerated bashings. This results in bad reputation, hence, loss of potential customers.
2. It took too much time/effort/emotion, that translated to significant loss of money making opportunity window, to take care Ballzy's and his cousin's car.

As some posts mentioned above, EE didn't make a lot of money (that's why they were one of the cheapest), which made me believe that their cash flow was so fragile that one issue like this could be a death sentence.

That's what I think. Could be wrong.

Timeless

All valid points depending on which side you take.

My only remaining question is IF they are packing up and leaving the country (leaving the country...WTF?) WHY do they not post THEIR side of the story on here? What can it possibly hurt now if they are bugging out?

Would just like to see them post something other than a snide comment. Take the time to write up a nice response to everything that happened.

SLK55R

THEY are not packing up and leaving the country ... its just Adam. Reason simple visa issues.