Toe-links....
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
E55 RUSS: Buy what you like and from whom you like. That is simply my opinion. You know I am a handling freak, so I've tried most methods at one time or another. Offset bushings to me are like using spacers in the wheels. Some love them and some won't do it. I won't. I'll run spacers for looks, but never for performance. Same goes for the offset bushings. Correct the geometry, not just an end-point that now becomes your weak link.
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From: SoCal
E55, Audi S4
Me? I'm the suspension engineer for a Speed World Challenge Touring Car AND GT car team...
Almost a Member!
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From: SoCal
E55, Audi S4
E55 RUSS: Buy what you like and from whom you like. That is simply my opinion. You know I am a handling freak, so I've tried most methods at one time or another. Offset bushings to me are like using spacers in the wheels. Some love them and some won't do it. I won't. I'll run spacers for looks, but never for performance. Same goes for the offset bushings. Correct the geometry, not just an end-point that now becomes your weak link.
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'11/E63-Former car: '05 RT4 E55, Sprintbooster, Phenolic Spacers, RT IC /Secondary HE & BMC Filters
rt toe-links installed. from dig, or slow-roll, the car is extremely tight/stable w/ har accel. through twisties, the car seems much more directionally stable too and steering feels tighter. love these tl's. would highly recommend.
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From: SoCal
E55, Audi S4
Yeah they are a very good thing, there is way too much compliance in the stock toe links.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
I'm not doubting you. I'm just telling you the truth. I've never claimed to know all things and I definitely do not believe that there is an ideal alignment setup for everyone.
My background is simple SCCA, Formula Fords, and just track time. I'm not a racer X, so relax.
Now keep the initial topic in mind. I was NOT talking about balanced race cars. I was talking about SLIGHT tweaks that I like to make to make the car respond and feel the way i like. I like a neutral wheel and strong turn in on this car, so that I can maximize the straighlines and minimize the turns. If I tried to run a nice steady line in the twistys, I'd be pushing a plow all day. Instead, I like to setup heavy on the brakes as I go wide. Then, i lay off the brakes and turn the car tight. Note that the car is shifting weight to the back at that point (came off brakes). We all know the E55 is front heavy, so the slight toe out just helps to get the wheels going. Then, I lay on the power as soon as the car is straight and I am GONE!! Next turn comes and the same thing. Add to that, the theory that the car goes toe IN under power and a slight toe out is not such a stupid idea.
Either way, you should be proud of whatever it is that you did. Instead of you resume, maybe you can just help explain another setup and I'll give it a shot. I'm always looking to learn and everyone here knows i'll come back and tell the truth.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
If you would take a look around, you would see that aftermarket development of trully performance products has just boomed for the E55.
Its no huge secret that a number of people are working on various replacements to the E55/E63 suspension components. For example, some arms are simply replaced by ones that can be adjusted vs the rigid OEMs. The list goes on. I really can't believe someone with your supposed "background" would find it so impossible to improve a road car. Moeny can do anything, including changing the geometry of the E55 suspension.
Oh yeah, thanks for the jab but this room is pretty good at smelling out a "fake".
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From: SoCal
E55, Audi S4
Is that two questions? Umm, okay the car in my sig is my sugar daddy's and I just snapped the pic. WTF?
If you would take a look around, you would see that aftermarket development of trully performance products has just boomed for the E55.
Its no huge secret that a number of people are working on various replacements to the E55/E63 suspension components. For example, some arms are simply replaced by ones that can be adjusted vs the rigid OEMs. The list goes on. I really can't believe someone with your supposed "background" would find it so impossible to improve a road car. Moeny can do anything, including changing the geometry of the E55 suspension.
Oh yeah, thanks for the jab but this room is pretty good at smelling out a "fake".
If you would take a look around, you would see that aftermarket development of trully performance products has just boomed for the E55.
Its no huge secret that a number of people are working on various replacements to the E55/E63 suspension components. For example, some arms are simply replaced by ones that can be adjusted vs the rigid OEMs. The list goes on. I really can't believe someone with your supposed "background" would find it so impossible to improve a road car. Moeny can do anything, including changing the geometry of the E55 suspension.
Oh yeah, thanks for the jab but this room is pretty good at smelling out a "fake".
Changing the alignment is NOT changing the geometry
I have the background, in fact you can come and meet me at the Long Beach Grand Prix I'll be engineering the #57 Viper Comp Coupe.
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Almost a Member!
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: SoCal
E55, Audi S4
I'm not doubting you. I'm just telling you the truth. I've never claimed to know all things and I definitely do not believe that there is an ideal alignment setup for everyone.
My background is simple SCCA, Formula Fords, and just track time. I'm not a racer X, so relax.
Now keep the initial topic in mind. I was NOT talking about balanced race cars. I was talking about SLIGHT tweaks that I like to make to make the car respond and feel the way i like. I like a neutral wheel and strong turn in on this car, so that I can maximize the straighlines and minimize the turns. If I tried to run a nice steady line in the twistys, I'd be pushing a plow all day. Instead, I like to setup heavy on the brakes as I go wide. Then, i lay off the brakes and turn the car tight. Note that the car is shifting weight to the back at that point (came off brakes). We all know the E55 is front heavy, so the slight toe out just helps to get the wheels going. Then, I lay on the power as soon as the car is straight and I am GONE!! Next turn comes and the same thing. Add to that, the theory that the car goes toe IN under power and a slight toe out is not such a stupid idea.
Either way, you should be proud of whatever it is that you did. Instead of you resume, maybe you can just help explain another setup and I'll give it a shot. I'm always looking to learn and everyone here knows i'll come back and tell the truth.
My background is simple SCCA, Formula Fords, and just track time. I'm not a racer X, so relax.
Now keep the initial topic in mind. I was NOT talking about balanced race cars. I was talking about SLIGHT tweaks that I like to make to make the car respond and feel the way i like. I like a neutral wheel and strong turn in on this car, so that I can maximize the straighlines and minimize the turns. If I tried to run a nice steady line in the twistys, I'd be pushing a plow all day. Instead, I like to setup heavy on the brakes as I go wide. Then, i lay off the brakes and turn the car tight. Note that the car is shifting weight to the back at that point (came off brakes). We all know the E55 is front heavy, so the slight toe out just helps to get the wheels going. Then, I lay on the power as soon as the car is straight and I am GONE!! Next turn comes and the same thing. Add to that, the theory that the car goes toe IN under power and a slight toe out is not such a stupid idea.
Either way, you should be proud of whatever it is that you did. Instead of you resume, maybe you can just help explain another setup and I'll give it a shot. I'm always looking to learn and everyone here knows i'll come back and tell the truth.
Tires don't toe in dynamically they toe OUT, and it's exaggerated with rubber in the suspension. I would suggest that maybe you hit some books if you doubt me.
I stand by what I say, Rear toe out is a bad idea
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 340
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From: San Diego, CA
Sorry I haven't chimed in yet on this tread, but I would like to answer and correct a few questions about the RENNtech tie links here.
first of all the toe Links are $1195 shipped
the Rear Camber bushings are $1195 shipped
If we get enough guys I'll offer a one time special on these suspension parts.
The "Wiggle" is what some complain about when they accelerate hard and feel a slight drift but do not lose traction.
The RENNtech Toe Links are Adjustable as well as being stiffer.The are made from billet CNC brackets, chro-molly steel links, and sealed spherical Heim joints.
If anyone has any questions about the camber bushings or toe links please PM me or email me at James@creativeautoworks.com
Everyone enjoy your weekend.
James
first of all the toe Links are $1195 shipped
the Rear Camber bushings are $1195 shipped
If we get enough guys I'll offer a one time special on these suspension parts.
The "Wiggle" is what some complain about when they accelerate hard and feel a slight drift but do not lose traction.
The RENNtech Toe Links are Adjustable as well as being stiffer.The are made from billet CNC brackets, chro-molly steel links, and sealed spherical Heim joints.
If anyone has any questions about the camber bushings or toe links please PM me or email me at James@creativeautoworks.com
Everyone enjoy your weekend.
James
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
06 EuroElites E55
Sorry I haven't chimed in yet on this tread, but I would like to answer and correct a few questions about the RENNtech tie links here.
first of all the toe Links are $1195 shipped
the Rear Camber bushings are $1195 shipped
If we get enough guys I'll offer a one time special on these suspension parts.
The "Wiggle" is what some complain about when they accelerate hard and feel a slight drift but do not lose traction.
The RENNtech Toe Links are Adjustable as well as being stiffer.The are made from billet CNC brackets, chro-molly steel links, and sealed spherical Heim joints.
If anyone has any questions about the camber bushings or toe links please PM me or email me at James@creativeautoworks.com
Everyone enjoy your weekend.
James
first of all the toe Links are $1195 shipped
the Rear Camber bushings are $1195 shipped
If we get enough guys I'll offer a one time special on these suspension parts.
The "Wiggle" is what some complain about when they accelerate hard and feel a slight drift but do not lose traction.
The RENNtech Toe Links are Adjustable as well as being stiffer.The are made from billet CNC brackets, chro-molly steel links, and sealed spherical Heim joints.
If anyone has any questions about the camber bushings or toe links please PM me or email me at James@creativeautoworks.com
Everyone enjoy your weekend.
James
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, CA
The ADJUSTABLE CAMBER KIT from RENNtech allows drivers to adjust their car's handling for different tracks and styles of driving, ensuring that the car's tires maintain maximum grip for better braking, cornering, and acceleration.
that being said, everyone that we have installed these camber bushings on have not compainted about any squeak as of yet.
As for the price, thats really a personal choice, I would ask yourself a few questions such as how bad is your current tire wear. Are you wasting tires because of inner tire wear? If so I would suggest correcting your camber, if the wear is questionable then maybe correcting the camber isnt needed on your vehicle. However If your only currently getting 50% life out of your tires, and your running a $300 tire, a $1200 investment pays you back quickly.
I hope that helps.
James
that being said, everyone that we have installed these camber bushings on have not compainted about any squeak as of yet.
As for the price, thats really a personal choice, I would ask yourself a few questions such as how bad is your current tire wear. Are you wasting tires because of inner tire wear? If so I would suggest correcting your camber, if the wear is questionable then maybe correcting the camber isnt needed on your vehicle. However If your only currently getting 50% life out of your tires, and your running a $300 tire, a $1200 investment pays you back quickly.
I hope that helps.
James
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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From: In a box
W211 E55
"Hey honey, I have an opportunity to make an investment in my car......no, it's not just another mod.....no, really I....."
-Click-
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
06 EuroElites E55
The ADJUSTABLE CAMBER KIT from RENNtech allows drivers to adjust their car's handling for different tracks and styles of driving, ensuring that the car's tires maintain maximum grip for better braking, cornering, and acceleration.
that being said, everyone that we have installed these camber bushings on have not compainted about any squeak as of yet.
As for the price, thats really a personal choice, I would ask yourself a few questions such as how bad is your current tire wear. Are you wasting tires because of inner tire wear? If so I would suggest correcting your camber, if the wear is questionable then maybe correcting the camber isnt needed on your vehicle. However If your only currently getting 50% life out of your tires, and your running a $300 tire, a $1200 investment pays you back quickly.
I hope that helps.
James
that being said, everyone that we have installed these camber bushings on have not compainted about any squeak as of yet.
As for the price, thats really a personal choice, I would ask yourself a few questions such as how bad is your current tire wear. Are you wasting tires because of inner tire wear? If so I would suggest correcting your camber, if the wear is questionable then maybe correcting the camber isnt needed on your vehicle. However If your only currently getting 50% life out of your tires, and your running a $300 tire, a $1200 investment pays you back quickly.
I hope that helps.
James
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
To change Geometry you need to change the pickup points and the length of the arms. to change pickup points on a unitbody car requires a secondary structrure, IE a cage.
Changing the alignment is NOT changing the geometry
I have the background, in fact you can come and meet me at the Long Beach Grand Prix I'll be engineering the #57 Viper Comp Coupe.
Changing the alignment is NOT changing the geometry
I have the background, in fact you can come and meet me at the Long Beach Grand Prix I'll be engineering the #57 Viper Comp Coupe.
Changing the unibody was never an intent. LOL!!! I don't plan to scuff the egg. We are working on replacement arms for the car. No biggie, I'd still like to see your educated guess is.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Standing by it means nothing. I wouldn't accpt that answer from a real racer. Why can't you just explain why?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
). The new arms will be out soon and they will likely be closer to $500 per set (depending on the arm).Now, can James at least stop throwing plugs on threads I get involved in? Is that too much to ask? Maybe I should be like the other "happy" clients and add things to my sigs?
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From: SoCal
E55, Audi S4
Two points, the tires on an E55 do. Again, I don't care about your race cars. What happens when we push the offset here is that you have a car that sits fine, but shreds the FRONT inner side of the tire sidewall as it rubs on the subframe. If the wheels really toe'd out, as you say, are you implying the sub moves as well?
Standing by it means nothing. I wouldn't accpt that answer from a real racer. Why can't you just explain why?
Standing by it means nothing. I wouldn't accpt that answer from a real racer. Why can't you just explain why?
I'm not talking about race cars here, I'm talking about E55's. (Race cars also observe the laws of physics but let's not muddy the waters with that fact.)
BTW nice try at a personal swipe But considering my SCCA License says "SCCA Pro Racing" that makes me a real racer.
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From: SoCal
E55, Audi S4
They aren't worth the price, but are a good band-aid, especially if "pure" performance isn't your goal (like fitting 22s ). The new arms will be out soon and they will likely be closer to $500 per set (depending on the arm).
Now, can James at least stop throwing plugs on threads I get involved in? Is that too much to ask? Maybe I should be like the other "happy" clients and add things to my sigs?
). The new arms will be out soon and they will likely be closer to $500 per set (depending on the arm).Now, can James at least stop throwing plugs on threads I get involved in? Is that too much to ask? Maybe I should be like the other "happy" clients and add things to my sigs?
Camber bushings work and they work quite well, they are just limited in their total adjustability.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
You might want to try to model the suspension before you go making claims like that. You are wrong, you have made some very wrong comments here and claiming that the tires are dynamically toeing in is a huge one. it would violate the laws of physics. Don't believe me talk to a tire engineer.
I'm not talking about race cars here, I'm talking about E55's. (Race cars also observe the laws of physics but let's not muddy the waters with that fact.)
BTW nice try at a personal swipe But considering my SCCA License says "SCCA Pro Racing" that makes me a real racer.
I'm not talking about race cars here, I'm talking about E55's. (Race cars also observe the laws of physics but let's not muddy the waters with that fact.)
BTW nice try at a personal swipe But considering my SCCA License says "SCCA Pro Racing" that makes me a real racer.
I don't need to talk to an engineer, I'll relook the issues that everyone had. I am pretty sure I remember the rubbing being on the front inside of the tire and not the rear inside. Maybe it was.
I'm glad we got on track with the topic. the "try" was just in response to your pompous replies. I have had these same conversations with Trams Am, F1, etc. champions. In fact, the very concept of replacement arms (which AMG's Studio MAKES) was discussed with Tommy Kendall for the camber and toe issues. Now, we all know that drivers are just that, but I just wanted to get some technical info from you, instead of just "trust me". Teach me, quit bashing me.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
The bushings are no more than glorified crash bolts. Also, depending on the bushings used, they may or may not match up to the rest of the car and then you have a jack point. It just makes a $100K car turn into a literal cluncker.
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Posts: 32
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From: SoCal
E55, Audi S4
I have had these same conversations with Trams Am, F1, etc. champions. In fact, the very concept of replacement arms (which AMG's Studio MAKES) was discussed with Tommy Kendall for the camber and toe issues. Now, we all know that drivers are just that, but I just wanted to get some technical info from you, instead of just "trust me". Teach me, quit bashing me.
Almost a Member!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
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From: SoCal
E55, Audi S4
Not exactly an agenda, maybe more of a sore spot. Not real big into people with bad raps being allowed to pimp themselves, just because they pay a fee. It is nice to see that there are enough forums out there that recognize Creative for what it is. Lemme see Audizine. ....
The bushings are no more than glorified crash bolts. Also, depending on the bushings used, they may or may not match up to the rest of the car and then you have a jack point. It just makes a $100K car turn into a literal cluncker.
The bushings are no more than glorified crash bolts. Also, depending on the bushings used, they may or may not match up to the rest of the car and then you have a jack point. It just makes a $100K car turn into a literal cluncker.
Bushings are very different than crash bolts.
And seriously if your going to try to talk about suspension (Especially with someone that does this) try using normal terms not double talk BS like your "Jack Point" comment.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Here we go again. Call whatever you want, but are you so touchy? Will you lick my nuts if I post a pic with Tommy Kendall from last year's AMG challenge? Or do you want to see the one with Bobby Unser Jr? You can make this as personal as you like, but in the end you'll have to speak some truth.
