Best Oil Brand For High Performance Vehicles
04-08-2008, 02:32 AM
#1
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Best Oil Brand For High Performance Vehicles
I'm trying to figure out which oil type/brand is best to use in high performance cars like ours, especially ones with high compression (63 engine). Lately I've been reading about all these different oil brands and types and the more I read, the more it became difficult to decide because I always seem to find an article stating otherwise.
Here is one famous article that compared many of the famous brands and seem to suggest Royal Purple was best.... http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf then followed by videos like this http://youtube.com/watch?v=kqvhRi7-iMA
Then as I dug deeper and depper, I found some articles stating some of Royal Purple's disadvantages if used in stock production engines. This is an article from yet another oil comparison test:
"As you may know, RP is big in racing circles. The chemistry they use is something we choose not to use. One of our big selling points is extended drain intervals. Some additive chemicals can cause adverse conditions when used for long periods.
Royal Purple uses a different chemistry than most. They are one of only a handful of marketers using Moly in their oil. Moly is a solid, specifically banned by Cummins, due to excessive valve train wear.
Moly (Molybdenum Disulfide) is a processed mineral that is similar in appearance to graphite. Moly has good lubricating properties when used either by itself (in dry power form or as an additive to oil or other lubricants). Particles of the Moly can come out of suspension and agglomerate. This can actually clog oil filters or oil lines and the rest normally settles in the bottom of the oil pan. This seems to be more likely when using extended drain intervals. The only test we ran on RP involved their 20W50 Racing oil versus our AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 20W50 Racing Oil (TRO). We ran two 4 ball wear tests with different parameters, a spectrographic baseline, FTIR scan and volatility tests. The Royal Purple showed a significantly high volatility rate with a 12.51% boil off rate. This compares to TRO with a 4.47% volatility rating. Wear scars were also smaller with the TRO. For example the TRO left a .41mm scar and the RP oil left a .66mm scar. There was also a surprising difference in the viscosity index. The RP has a VI of 129 versus 155 for the TRO. The higher the VI, the better the viscosity stays in place at high temperatures."
And here are the head-to-head dyno results:
This is an AMSOIL article featuring direct dyno testing against Royal Purple, in a issue of Fast Fours & Rotaries magazine. Click here to see the results.
However, we all read some horror stories about oil disasters to different cars. Just Googling Amsoil warranty claims, one can come up with several stories about people reporting their vehicles has failed due to Amsoil and Amsoil wouldn't back them up. And although I know it could have been so many other factors that caused those failures, it still makes it a risk.
So, I'm asking you guys what are your opinions about all these different brands and which would be better to use for our high performance cars?
Here is one famous article that compared many of the famous brands and seem to suggest Royal Purple was best.... http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf then followed by videos like this http://youtube.com/watch?v=kqvhRi7-iMA
Then as I dug deeper and depper, I found some articles stating some of Royal Purple's disadvantages if used in stock production engines. This is an article from yet another oil comparison test:
"As you may know, RP is big in racing circles. The chemistry they use is something we choose not to use. One of our big selling points is extended drain intervals. Some additive chemicals can cause adverse conditions when used for long periods.
Royal Purple uses a different chemistry than most. They are one of only a handful of marketers using Moly in their oil. Moly is a solid, specifically banned by Cummins, due to excessive valve train wear.
Moly (Molybdenum Disulfide) is a processed mineral that is similar in appearance to graphite. Moly has good lubricating properties when used either by itself (in dry power form or as an additive to oil or other lubricants). Particles of the Moly can come out of suspension and agglomerate. This can actually clog oil filters or oil lines and the rest normally settles in the bottom of the oil pan. This seems to be more likely when using extended drain intervals. The only test we ran on RP involved their 20W50 Racing oil versus our AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 20W50 Racing Oil (TRO). We ran two 4 ball wear tests with different parameters, a spectrographic baseline, FTIR scan and volatility tests. The Royal Purple showed a significantly high volatility rate with a 12.51% boil off rate. This compares to TRO with a 4.47% volatility rating. Wear scars were also smaller with the TRO. For example the TRO left a .41mm scar and the RP oil left a .66mm scar. There was also a surprising difference in the viscosity index. The RP has a VI of 129 versus 155 for the TRO. The higher the VI, the better the viscosity stays in place at high temperatures."
And here are the head-to-head dyno results:
This is an AMSOIL article featuring direct dyno testing against Royal Purple, in a issue of Fast Fours & Rotaries magazine. Click here to see the results.
However, we all read some horror stories about oil disasters to different cars. Just Googling Amsoil warranty claims, one can come up with several stories about people reporting their vehicles has failed due to Amsoil and Amsoil wouldn't back them up. And although I know it could have been so many other factors that caused those failures, it still makes it a risk.
So, I'm asking you guys what are your opinions about all these different brands and which would be better to use for our high performance cars?
04-08-2008, 04:55 AM
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2003 E55
Why don't you just use what AMG recommends (Mobile 1). After all they did build the engine and test it, probably to failure. They should know what's best.
But I have added Nulon AFTER the 10000km oil change. Cold start protection. http://www.nulon.com.au/products.php...gine_Treatment
But I have added Nulon AFTER the 10000km oil change. Cold start protection. http://www.nulon.com.au/products.php...gine_Treatment
04-08-2008, 05:20 AM
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
Beware of adding additives to synthetic oils .... and even worse adding a mineral based oil to synth oil ... !!!
Often see this when oils are topped up. The chap at the station reaches for his 'ol favorite (often the type with the biggest profit margin) and has no clue if there is synth oil or mineral based oil in the motor....
Also when you move from min <-> synth need to be sure the engine been thoroughly flushed...
Mobil 1 is v good (good for F/I app) although at my recent service I got flushed and topped up with another brand which escapes me... and I was a little surprised given the tie up with MB and Mobil.
Often see this when oils are topped up. The chap at the station reaches for his 'ol favorite (often the type with the biggest profit margin) and has no clue if there is synth oil or mineral based oil in the motor....
Also when you move from min <-> synth need to be sure the engine been thoroughly flushed...
Mobil 1 is v good (good for F/I app) although at my recent service I got flushed and topped up with another brand which escapes me... and I was a little surprised given the tie up with MB and Mobil.
Last edited by stevebez; 04-08-2008 at 05:29 AM.
04-08-2008, 06:36 AM
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
[QUOTE=MB_Forever;2753919]I'm trying to figure out which oil type/brand is best to use in high performance cars like ours, especially ones with high compression (63 engine). Lately I've been reading about all these different oil brands and types and the more I read, the more it became difficult to decide because I always seem to find an article stating otherwise.
/QUOTE]
Hey MB_Forever:
I have posted MANY answers on the old oil question, as My ex crew cheif worked at the Gulf research center here in Pittsburgh on oil research. Anyway, let me say with ABSOLUTE confidence " NO DYNO WILL EVER SEE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIFFERENT SYNTHETIC OIL BRANDS, PERIOD!"
Real world results between synthetics are NO difference. Save your money and use Mobil 1. Its cheaper, readily available, and is what MB specs.
There are NO gains to be had from Amsoil, RP, or any other brand over Mobil 1. Or vice versa my friend
See yeah
/QUOTE]
Hey MB_Forever:
I have posted MANY answers on the old oil question, as My ex crew cheif worked at the Gulf research center here in Pittsburgh on oil research. Anyway, let me say with ABSOLUTE confidence " NO DYNO WILL EVER SEE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIFFERENT SYNTHETIC OIL BRANDS, PERIOD!"
Real world results between synthetics are NO difference. Save your money and use Mobil 1. Its cheaper, readily available, and is what MB specs.
There are NO gains to be had from Amsoil, RP, or any other brand over Mobil 1. Or vice versa my friend
See yeah
04-08-2008, 08:53 AM
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SL600
[QUOTE=MRAMG1;2754073]
The dyno ain't the point...
Long-term engine health/wear is the point.
I'm trying to figure out which oil type/brand is best to use in high performance cars like ours, especially ones with high compression (63 engine). Lately I've been reading about all these different oil brands and types and the more I read, the more it became difficult to decide because I always seem to find an article stating otherwise.
/QUOTE]
Hey MB_Forever:
I have posted MANY answers on the old oil question, as My ex crew cheif worked at the Gulf research center here in Pittsburgh on oil research. Anyway, let me say with ABSOLUTE confidence " NO DYNO WILL EVER SEE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIFFERENT SYNTHETIC OIL BRANDS, PERIOD!"
Real world results between synthetics are NO difference. Save your money and use Mobil 1. Its cheaper, readily available, and is what MB specs.
There are NO gains to be had from Amsoil, RP, or any other brand over Mobil 1. Or vice versa my friend
See yeah
/QUOTE]
Hey MB_Forever:
I have posted MANY answers on the old oil question, as My ex crew cheif worked at the Gulf research center here in Pittsburgh on oil research. Anyway, let me say with ABSOLUTE confidence " NO DYNO WILL EVER SEE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIFFERENT SYNTHETIC OIL BRANDS, PERIOD!"
Real world results between synthetics are NO difference. Save your money and use Mobil 1. Its cheaper, readily available, and is what MB specs.
There are NO gains to be had from Amsoil, RP, or any other brand over Mobil 1. Or vice versa my friend
See yeah
Long-term engine health/wear is the point.
04-08-2008, 08:54 AM
#6
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SL600
Why don't you just use what AMG recommends (Mobile 1). After all they did build the engine and test it, probably to failure. They should know what's best.
But I have added Nulon AFTER the 10000km oil change. Cold start protection. http://www.nulon.com.au/products.php...gine_Treatment
But I have added Nulon AFTER the 10000km oil change. Cold start protection. http://www.nulon.com.au/products.php...gine_Treatment
I expect Mercedes will switch eventually.
04-08-2008, 09:01 AM
#7
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SL600
I'm trying to figure out which oil type/brand is best to use in high performance cars like ours, especially ones with high compression (63 engine). Lately I've been reading about all these different oil brands and types and the more I read, the more it became difficult to decide because I always seem to find an article stating otherwise.
Here is one famous article that compared many of the famous brands and seem to suggest Royal Purple was best.... http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf then followed by videos like this http://youtube.com/watch?v=kqvhRi7-iMA
Then as I dug deeper and depper, I found some articles stating some of Royal Purple's disadvantages if used in stock production engines. This is an article from yet another oil comparison test:
"As you may know, RP is big in racing circles. The chemistry they use is something we choose not to use. One of our big selling points is extended drain intervals. Some additive chemicals can cause adverse conditions when used for long periods.
Royal Purple uses a different chemistry than most. They are one of only a handful of marketers using Moly in their oil. Moly is a solid, specifically banned by Cummins, due to excessive valve train wear.
Moly (Molybdenum Disulfide) is a processed mineral that is similar in appearance to graphite. Moly has good lubricating properties when used either by itself (in dry power form or as an additive to oil or other lubricants). Particles of the Moly can come out of suspension and agglomerate. This can actually clog oil filters or oil lines and the rest normally settles in the bottom of the oil pan. This seems to be more likely when using extended drain intervals. The only test we ran on RP involved their 20W50 Racing oil versus our AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 20W50 Racing Oil (TRO). We ran two 4 ball wear tests with different parameters, a spectrographic baseline, FTIR scan and volatility tests. The Royal Purple showed a significantly high volatility rate with a 12.51% boil off rate. This compares to TRO with a 4.47% volatility rating. Wear scars were also smaller with the TRO. For example the TRO left a .41mm scar and the RP oil left a .66mm scar. There was also a surprising difference in the viscosity index. The RP has a VI of 129 versus 155 for the TRO. The higher the VI, the better the viscosity stays in place at high temperatures."
And here are the head-to-head dyno results:
This is an AMSOIL article featuring direct dyno testing against Royal Purple, in a issue of Fast Fours & Rotaries magazine. Click here to see the results.
However, we all read some horror stories about oil disasters to different cars. Just Googling Amsoil warranty claims, one can come up with several stories about people reporting their vehicles has failed due to Amsoil and Amsoil wouldn't back them up. And although I know it could have been so many other factors that caused those failures, it still makes it a risk.
So, I'm asking you guys what are your opinions about all these different brands and which would be better to use for our high performance cars?
Here is one famous article that compared many of the famous brands and seem to suggest Royal Purple was best.... http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf then followed by videos like this http://youtube.com/watch?v=kqvhRi7-iMA
Then as I dug deeper and depper, I found some articles stating some of Royal Purple's disadvantages if used in stock production engines. This is an article from yet another oil comparison test:
"As you may know, RP is big in racing circles. The chemistry they use is something we choose not to use. One of our big selling points is extended drain intervals. Some additive chemicals can cause adverse conditions when used for long periods.
Royal Purple uses a different chemistry than most. They are one of only a handful of marketers using Moly in their oil. Moly is a solid, specifically banned by Cummins, due to excessive valve train wear.
Moly (Molybdenum Disulfide) is a processed mineral that is similar in appearance to graphite. Moly has good lubricating properties when used either by itself (in dry power form or as an additive to oil or other lubricants). Particles of the Moly can come out of suspension and agglomerate. This can actually clog oil filters or oil lines and the rest normally settles in the bottom of the oil pan. This seems to be more likely when using extended drain intervals. The only test we ran on RP involved their 20W50 Racing oil versus our AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 20W50 Racing Oil (TRO). We ran two 4 ball wear tests with different parameters, a spectrographic baseline, FTIR scan and volatility tests. The Royal Purple showed a significantly high volatility rate with a 12.51% boil off rate. This compares to TRO with a 4.47% volatility rating. Wear scars were also smaller with the TRO. For example the TRO left a .41mm scar and the RP oil left a .66mm scar. There was also a surprising difference in the viscosity index. The RP has a VI of 129 versus 155 for the TRO. The higher the VI, the better the viscosity stays in place at high temperatures."
And here are the head-to-head dyno results:
This is an AMSOIL article featuring direct dyno testing against Royal Purple, in a issue of Fast Fours & Rotaries magazine. Click here to see the results.
However, we all read some horror stories about oil disasters to different cars. Just Googling Amsoil warranty claims, one can come up with several stories about people reporting their vehicles has failed due to Amsoil and Amsoil wouldn't back them up. And although I know it could have been so many other factors that caused those failures, it still makes it a risk.
So, I'm asking you guys what are your opinions about all these different brands and which would be better to use for our high performance cars?
What I DO like are the brands who don't try to use "miracle additives", like Penrite, and some of the Valvoline oils in the test linked above. They are just plain quality blends. Mobil1 is NOT.
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04-08-2008, 10:36 AM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
[QUOTE=CWW;2754176]So I guess, 275,000 on a 89 Mustang GT is not good longevity, or 225,000 on a 94 Z28 Camaro, or 89,000 on a SCCA competitive car mean nothing
Mobil 1 works, it IS good, and is recomended. I use it in EVERY car I own, and it has NEVER ceased to amaze me. I tore my Supercharged, Road raced stang engine down, during the off season just to look at it. Guess what NO engine wear on ANY surface, bearing or journal. And that was after 8 years of raod racing my friend. Oh well, I guess it still must be garbage. This engine routinely saw oil temps above 300 degrees farenheit, and that is with a 8 quart pan, and 2 quart cooler. Sorry, But I am convinced, and have the data to prove it.
Use what you like, but my hard earned money is on Mobil 1
See yeah
Mobil 1 works, it IS good, and is recomended. I use it in EVERY car I own, and it has NEVER ceased to amaze me. I tore my Supercharged, Road raced stang engine down, during the off season just to look at it. Guess what NO engine wear on ANY surface, bearing or journal. And that was after 8 years of raod racing my friend. Oh well, I guess it still must be garbage. This engine routinely saw oil temps above 300 degrees farenheit, and that is with a 8 quart pan, and 2 quart cooler. Sorry, But I am convinced, and have the data to prove it.
Use what you like, but my hard earned money is on Mobil 1
See yeah
04-08-2008, 10:46 AM
#9
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
[QUOTE=MRAMG1;2754345]
So I guess, 275,000 on a 89 Mustang GT is not good longevity, or 225,000 on a 94 Z28 Camaro, or 89,000 on a SCCA competitive car mean nothing
Mobil 1 works, it IS good, and is recomended. I use it in EVERY car I own, and it has NEVER ceased to amaze me. I tore my Supercharged, Road raced stang engine down, during the off season just to look at it. Guess what NO engine wear on ANY surface, bearing or journal. And that was after 8 years of raod racing my friend. Oh well, I guess it still must be garbage. This engine routinely saw oil temps above 300 degrees farenheit, and that is with a 8 quart pan, and 2 quart cooler. Sorry, But I am convinced, and have the data to prove it.
Use what you like, but my hard earned money is on Mobil 1
See yeah
MRAMG1, I've been using Mobile 1 0W-40 and have been happy with it, but I've been reading lately that Mobile 1 had to decrease their phosphorus concentration in their oil due to government regulation which resulted in much lesser quality oil And how about these articles showing more wear with Mobile 1 oil than with others
I'm not trying to argue here, I really would like to know which is best and safest to use on my car....
So I guess, 275,000 on a 89 Mustang GT is not good longevity, or 225,000 on a 94 Z28 Camaro, or 89,000 on a SCCA competitive car mean nothing
Mobil 1 works, it IS good, and is recomended. I use it in EVERY car I own, and it has NEVER ceased to amaze me. I tore my Supercharged, Road raced stang engine down, during the off season just to look at it. Guess what NO engine wear on ANY surface, bearing or journal. And that was after 8 years of raod racing my friend. Oh well, I guess it still must be garbage. This engine routinely saw oil temps above 300 degrees farenheit, and that is with a 8 quart pan, and 2 quart cooler. Sorry, But I am convinced, and have the data to prove it.
Use what you like, but my hard earned money is on Mobil 1
See yeah
And how about these articles showing more wear with Mobile 1 oil than with others I'm not trying to argue here, I really would like to know which is best and safest to use on my car....
04-08-2008, 03:23 PM
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
[QUOTE=MB_Forever;2754365]
MRAMG1, I've been using Mobile 1 0W-40 and have been happy with it, but I've been reading lately that Mobile 1 had to decrease their phosphorus concentration in their oil due to government regulation which resulted in much lesser quality oil And how about these articles showing more wear with Mobile 1 oil than with others
I'm not trying to argue here, I really would like to know which is best and safest to use on my car....
Hey MB-Forever:
Honestly, I am unaweare of any change to their reciepe. I can certainly understand the government changing rules, thus changing the formula. I will speak with my ex-crewchief, as he really is a nut on this stuff. I wasn't looking for any argument either my friend
. I just hate seeing anyone waste their money on something that gives NO return. I'll post back tomorrow after I speak with him.
See yeah
MRAMG1, I've been using Mobile 1 0W-40 and have been happy with it, but I've been reading lately that Mobile 1 had to decrease their phosphorus concentration in their oil due to government regulation which resulted in much lesser quality oil
And how about these articles showing more wear with Mobile 1 oil than with others I'm not trying to argue here, I really would like to know which is best and safest to use on my car....
Honestly, I am unaweare of any change to their reciepe. I can certainly understand the government changing rules, thus changing the formula. I will speak with my ex-crewchief, as he really is a nut on this stuff. I wasn't looking for any argument either my friend
. I just hate seeing anyone waste their money on something that gives NO return. I'll post back tomorrow after I speak with him.See yeah
04-08-2008, 04:16 PM
#11
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So I guess, 275,000 on a 89 Mustang GT is not good longevity, or 225,000 on a 94 Z28 Camaro, or 89,000 on a SCCA competitive car mean nothing
Mobil 1 works, it IS good, and is recomended. I use it in EVERY car I own, and it has NEVER ceased to amaze me. I tore my Supercharged, Road raced stang engine down, during the off season just to look at it. Guess what NO engine wear on ANY surface, bearing or journal. And that was after 8 years of raod racing my friend. Oh well, I guess it still must be garbage. This engine routinely saw oil temps above 300 degrees farenheit, and that is with a 8 quart pan, and 2 quart cooler. Sorry, But I am convinced, and have the data to prove it.
Use what you like, but my hard earned money is on Mobil 1
See yeah
Mobil1 was the shiznit back in the day. In the 1990s, they created a sterling reputation. But it's not back in the day anymore, and there are a lot of better things out there now...like Penrite and Valvoline's higher-end products...
Mobil1 continues to ride along on brand recognition, cheapening the product while increasing the price just like every other damn thing these days. I know so many car nuts I can't even count anymore, and I am starting to hear grumblings from everyone that Mobil1 is crap, compared to some of the newer stuff out there...
Heck, someone on this thread or the other oil thread on this forum even mentioned that their own service advisor (who is PAID to peddle Mobil1) says it's crap now compared to other things.
Last edited by CWW; 04-09-2008 at 09:57 AM.
04-08-2008, 04:33 PM
#12
Super Moderator
The automobile manufacturers have pressured oil companies to reduce phosphorus concentrations as it’s a known contributor of failed catalytic converters. Once (if) oil consumption increased enough to foul the cat, a costly warranty replacement was necessitated by federal emission statutes. If the engine were to wear more quickly, that was of lesser concern. Emission warranties invariably exceed, in time and distance, those pertaining to the remainder of the drive train.
Mobil’s most recent specification sheet showing the phosphorus concentrations of their various types:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Far be it from me to jump in to a ‘best’ debate; I’m merely posting up some data that may be of interest.
04-08-2008, 05:04 PM
#13
[QUOTE=CWW;2755073]
Now there's a data point to rely on. It's a very slippery slope when you start believing everything your "service advisor" tells you. If you really believe all of these newer synthetics are so vastly superior to Mobil 1, can I interest you in some Kinoki Detox Foot Pads? 
04-08-2008, 07:24 PM
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Hey MB-Forever:
Honestly, I am unaweare of any change to their reciepe. I can certainly understand the government changing rules, thus changing the formula. I will speak with my ex-crewchief, as he really is a nut on this stuff. I wasn't looking for any argument either my friend. I just hate seeing anyone waste their money on something that gives NO return. I'll post back tomorrow after I speak with him.
See yeah
Honestly, I am unaweare of any change to their reciepe. I can certainly understand the government changing rules, thus changing the formula. I will speak with my ex-crewchief, as he really is a nut on this stuff. I wasn't looking for any argument either my friend
. I just hate seeing anyone waste their money on something that gives NO return. I'll post back tomorrow after I speak with him.See yeah
Here is the question as asked to Mobil directly.... it is posted in their FAQs section....
Question:
Has Zinc Been Removed from Motor Oils?
I am having thrust bearing failure in a 4.6 modified performance engine. This is a street/strip engine. Many of my friends are having the same problem. I think it is the result of the removal of zinc from the oil. I was told by two separate racing engine builders that the EPA ordered the removal of the zinc from over-the-counter motor oil. I use Mobil 1 5W-20. Is this true and do you think a zinc additive might help?
-- Randy
Answer:
The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the phosphorus levels for the oil must be less than 800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications; see the attached table.
Thanks for everyone's input.....
04-09-2008, 09:25 AM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
[QUOTE=kompressed55;2755213]
Hey kompressed55:
THAT is NOT my quote. It was someones response to mine.
Okay, I'll take two footpads by the way, as well as a quart of slick 50 please
See yeah
THAT is NOT my quote. It was someones response to mine.
Okay, I'll take two footpads by the way, as well as a quart of slick 50 please
See yeah
04-09-2008, 09:44 AM
#16
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SL600
Now there's a data point to rely on. It's a very slippery slope when you start believing everything your "service advisor" tells you. If you really believe all of these newer synthetics are so vastly superior to Mobil 1, can I interest you in some Kinoki Detox Foot Pads?
So my point is: When someone is paid on commission to sell a product, and even they tell you it's crap, doesn't that really say something?
As to those kinoki foot pad things, I laughed my azz off the first 20 times I saw that commercial. I honestly thought it was saturday night live and I had the wrong the channel on or something...
Last edited by CWW; 04-09-2008 at 10:03 AM.
04-09-2008, 09:48 AM
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Thanks, I appreciate that.....
Here is the question as asked to Mobil directly.... it is posted in their FAQs section....
Question:
Has Zinc Been Removed from Motor Oils?
I am having thrust bearing failure in a 4.6 modified performance engine. This is a street/strip engine. Many of my friends are having the same problem. I think it is the result of the removal of zinc from the oil. I was told by two separate racing engine builders that the EPA ordered the removal of the zinc from over-the-counter motor oil. I use Mobil 1 5W-20. Is this true and do you think a zinc additive might help?
-- Randy
Answer:
The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the phosphorus levels for the oil must be less than 800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications; see the attached table.
Thanks for everyone's input.....
Here is the question as asked to Mobil directly.... it is posted in their FAQs section....
Question:
Has Zinc Been Removed from Motor Oils?
I am having thrust bearing failure in a 4.6 modified performance engine. This is a street/strip engine. Many of my friends are having the same problem. I think it is the result of the removal of zinc from the oil. I was told by two separate racing engine builders that the EPA ordered the removal of the zinc from over-the-counter motor oil. I use Mobil 1 5W-20. Is this true and do you think a zinc additive might help?
-- Randy
Answer:
The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the phosphorus levels for the oil must be less than 800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications; see the attached table.
Thanks for everyone's input.....
A catalytic converter is what? $1k+/-? (actually a LOT less depending on where you get it).
And how much is an engine? Makes a lot of sense to me that we are going to protect a <$1k part of the powertrain at the expense of a $20k part of the powertrain
Also, half the people around here have removed their cats anyway...
I'm tellin' you guys, Mobil1 sux...
04-09-2008, 12:20 PM
#18
Yeah, it's really stupid and makes no sense whatsoever, but this is the type of stuff that happens when you let the fearmongering enviro-fascists dictate policy.
Last edited by komp55; 04-09-2008 at 01:57 PM.
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Gripen (01-05-2022)
04-09-2008, 09:14 PM
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thanks, I appreciate that.....
Here is the question as asked to Mobil directly.... it is posted in their FAQs section....
Question:
Has Zinc Been Removed from Motor Oils?
I am having thrust bearing failure in a 4.6 modified performance engine. This is a street/strip engine. Many of my friends are having the same problem. I think it is the result of the removal of zinc from the oil. I was told by two separate racing engine builders that the EPA ordered the removal of the zinc from over-the-counter motor oil. I use Mobil 1 5W-20. Is this true and do you think a zinc additive might help?
-- Randy
Answer:
The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the phosphorus levels for the oil must be less than 800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications; see the attached table.
Thanks for everyone's input.....
Here is the question as asked to Mobil directly.... it is posted in their FAQs section....
Question:
Has Zinc Been Removed from Motor Oils?
I am having thrust bearing failure in a 4.6 modified performance engine. This is a street/strip engine. Many of my friends are having the same problem. I think it is the result of the removal of zinc from the oil. I was told by two separate racing engine builders that the EPA ordered the removal of the zinc from over-the-counter motor oil. I use Mobil 1 5W-20. Is this true and do you think a zinc additive might help?
-- Randy
Answer:
The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the phosphorus levels for the oil must be less than 800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications; see the attached table.
Thanks for everyone's input.....
04-10-2008, 12:28 AM
#20
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2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
I am telling ya guys, I saw the "Royal Purple Challenge" performed right in front of me. Katech Caddy ran 423rwhp on the dyno, then swapped out the oil to Royal Purple and actually lost 1 hp.
Dyno guy did claim that he honestly has seen improvement when going regular oil to Royal Purp, but we found out the Katech already had Mobil 1 in it.
Not sure on the other stuff, but on the hp subject, stick with the showcase oil of the worlds largest publicly traded oil company. Mobil 1.
Dyno guy did claim that he honestly has seen improvement when going regular oil to Royal Purp, but we found out the Katech already had Mobil 1 in it.
Not sure on the other stuff, but on the hp subject, stick with the showcase oil of the worlds largest publicly traded oil company. Mobil 1.
04-10-2008, 11:11 AM
#21
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Most of us are never going to have our cars long enough to see a difference between Mobil1 and any other brand. After looking at the chart, 15w50 would be the prefect choice, but I hear it is a bit more expensive than the 10w30.
04-10-2008, 11:12 AM
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
[QUOTE=MRAMG1;2754956]
Hey MB-Forever:
Honestly, I am unaweare of any change to their reciepe. I can certainly understand the government changing rules, thus changing the formula. I will speak with my ex-crewchief, as he really is a nut on this stuff. I wasn't looking for any argument either my friend. I just hate seeing anyone waste their money on something that gives NO return. I'll post back tomorrow after I speak with him.
See yeah
Okay, UPDATE:
Spoke with my oil nut about Mobil 1:
FACT: ALL oils sold in the US have these new standards applied to them, so guess what, ALL oils have lost some quality, NOT just Mobil 1.
Fact: Mobil 1 is still just as good as a lubricant as ANY other sythetic oil
Fact Mobil 1 is compatable with ALL oils, NOT all other syntethics are, check the label on your favorite. Meaning, if your stuck in the middle of no where and have to add a quart of John Do's oil, you won't hurt anything with Mobil 1 in your car, unlike some other brands.
Fact Mobil 1 is STILL cheaper than all the others. Significantly I might ad.
Bottom line, AGAIN, Mobil 1 is STILL good, it IS cheper, and it IS the recommended oil. You will be throwing away your money on more expensive brands. Suit yourself, but I will stay with my trusted, tried, and proven friend Mobil 1
See yeah
Hey MB-Forever:
Honestly, I am unaweare of any change to their reciepe. I can certainly understand the government changing rules, thus changing the formula. I will speak with my ex-crewchief, as he really is a nut on this stuff. I wasn't looking for any argument either my friend
. I just hate seeing anyone waste their money on something that gives NO return. I'll post back tomorrow after I speak with him.See yeah
Spoke with my oil nut about Mobil 1:
FACT: ALL oils sold in the US have these new standards applied to them, so guess what, ALL oils have lost some quality, NOT just Mobil 1.
Fact: Mobil 1 is still just as good as a lubricant as ANY other sythetic oil
Fact Mobil 1 is compatable with ALL oils, NOT all other syntethics are, check the label on your favorite. Meaning, if your stuck in the middle of no where and have to add a quart of John Do's oil, you won't hurt anything with Mobil 1 in your car, unlike some other brands.
Fact Mobil 1 is STILL cheaper than all the others. Significantly I might ad.
Bottom line, AGAIN, Mobil 1 is STILL good, it IS cheper, and it IS the recommended oil. You will be throwing away your money on more expensive brands. Suit yourself, but I will stay with my trusted, tried, and proven friend Mobil 1
See yeah
04-10-2008, 01:54 PM
#23
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2004 E55 AMG; 1995 Porsche 993 Cab.
Similar thread over on Rennlist some time back in the 993 section (Porsche forum).
Yes all oils have had the phos. content reduced (IIRC it's now SM rated oil but was SL??).. anyway, the 993 crowd can be a little nuts about oil, as it's not just the lubricant, but also the cooling mechanism for our older engines.
So, the long and the short of it (and I'll post the link if I can find it) was that Mobil 1 was still good, but you *might* want to add a GM sourced cam and lifter lube (4oz bottle) with each oil change to bump the ZDDP level up a bit and assist the wear additivies.
Off to search for that thread now...
Honestly though... Oil selection is like women... one mans ugly is anothers beauty..
Yes all oils have had the phos. content reduced (IIRC it's now SM rated oil but was SL??).. anyway, the 993 crowd can be a little nuts about oil, as it's not just the lubricant, but also the cooling mechanism for our older engines.
So, the long and the short of it (and I'll post the link if I can find it) was that Mobil 1 was still good, but you *might* want to add a GM sourced cam and lifter lube (4oz bottle) with each oil change to bump the ZDDP level up a bit and assist the wear additivies.
Off to search for that thread now...
Honestly though... Oil selection is like women... one mans ugly is anothers beauty..
04-10-2008, 02:03 PM
#24
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04-10-2008, 02:05 PM
#25
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2004 E55 AMG; 1995 Porsche 993 Cab.
Oh geeze....
Just when I though I had a handle on it, the game has changed....
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...d.php?t=407224
Post #15 is from a guy named Steve Weiner - who is *VERY* respected in the Porsche comm. for his knowledge....
Looks like he's now saying avoid ALL new Mobil 1 oils and moved to Brad-Penn...
AARGGH
Just when I though I had a handle on it, the game has changed....
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...d.php?t=407224
Post #15 is from a guy named Steve Weiner - who is *VERY* respected in the Porsche comm. for his knowledge....
Looks like he's now saying avoid ALL new Mobil 1 oils and moved to Brad-Penn...
AARGGH
