*** Bad Crank Pulley Installs ***
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,797
Likes: 2
From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
*** Bad Crank Pulley Installs ***
I wanted to start this thread because I wanted to provide some more information on Crank Pulley damage that results from an improper install.
There was a thread that was started a few weeks ago where we were discussing whether or not a VRP pulley suffered damage either from an improper install or because it was defective.
The reason I am making this post is because one of the members on this board had the same damage occur to his STOCK E55 Crankshaft pulley. Whoever installed his stock pulley did not follow the proper procedure and it resulted in keyway damage.
Below are 2 photos showing the damage to the keyway on his stock pulley.
Notice how the damage is almost identical to what happened to the VRP pulley that was discussed here: https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....1&postcount=45
If the bolt is not torqued down properly, the pulley will wobble, and the back 0.75" or so of the keyway will get damaged as shown in both sets of these photos.
There was a thread that was started a few weeks ago where we were discussing whether or not a VRP pulley suffered damage either from an improper install or because it was defective.
The reason I am making this post is because one of the members on this board had the same damage occur to his STOCK E55 Crankshaft pulley. Whoever installed his stock pulley did not follow the proper procedure and it resulted in keyway damage.
Below are 2 photos showing the damage to the keyway on his stock pulley.
Notice how the damage is almost identical to what happened to the VRP pulley that was discussed here: https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....1&postcount=45
If the bolt is not torqued down properly, the pulley will wobble, and the back 0.75" or so of the keyway will get damaged as shown in both sets of these photos.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 1
CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
Thanks for posting, perhaps MBZ should recall every crank pulley out there and make sure it's not defective - LOL
Wonder how many would come back with no bolts!!!!
Sorry, I had to
Anyway, I'm sure when this happened you had a nice sight of relief....not to worry - I for one never doubted your product.
Perhaps to strengthen your case even further you should intentionally install a pulley the wrong way and then take photos after it runs for a bit. Something tells me the photos would look almost identical to the above.
Wonder how many would come back with no bolts!!!!
Sorry, I had to
Anyway, I'm sure when this happened you had a nice sight of relief....not to worry - I for one never doubted your product.
Perhaps to strengthen your case even further you should intentionally install a pulley the wrong way and then take photos after it runs for a bit. Something tells me the photos would look almost identical to the above.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,365
Likes: 12
From: Orange County, CA
GMC - Miata - Trek - P-Car
I fear few bolts, as my son and I regularly enjoy the satisfaction of twisting wrenches in our garage.
Pleased that Vadim and his consummate technicians installed its crank pulley, however.
Pleased that Vadim and his consummate technicians installed its crank pulley, however.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
I think some of the issues are in the process used, including the use of the tool to hold the pulley while TQing vs using the Tranny lock method. I already know what MB says to do, but i would personally have a hard time TQing anything to those levels with such a short wrench (tool). I have seen it used once at a dealership and even then, two people did it and they slipped a breaker bar over the tool to get better TQ on it. Every other times I have seen it done, including when James at Creative installed it, was by using the tranny lock. That is how James said Ken of RennTech trained him. Given that, i don't think that just the method is the issue but I do think that we are getting waaay too many bad installs lately. Sure, we had fewer pulleys going on a few years ago, but how difficult is it to pay attention? You know it is a sensitive install that MUST be done right. It is a basic task, but it MUST be done to a T, so why not slow down and do it right?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Also, I still think any engineer could take a look at that pulley and tell you exactly what type of force made it fail just by looking at the directionality and pattern of the metal.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 1
CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
DING DING DING !!!! I think one of the reasons that many of us are here is because we are so meticulous about our vehicles...that's why many of us do our own wrenching because we know it gets done, to a T as you said. More often than not when someone else works on your car, that is not always the case and procedures are overlooked and corners are cut. The photos don't lie and it's really too bad because the smallest mistakes can have catastrophic results. Especially when you are dealing with something as highly engineered as an AMG motor.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 1
From: South Orange County, CA
4 wheels
Victor,Vadim, Sunil and gang,
I have full confidence in your proucts and have nothing but praise for you gentlemen. I hope this helps settle that the Pulley must me installed correctly or there will be damage. I hope others take notice of this thread and learn from their mistakes on installing the pulley.
I have full confidence in your proucts and have nothing but praise for you gentlemen. I hope this helps settle that the Pulley must me installed correctly or there will be damage. I hope others take notice of this thread and learn from their mistakes on installing the pulley.
Trending Topics
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 701
Likes: 2
From: San Diego
04 E55, 12 GL 450(wife)
My Renntech pulley has a slight wobble since my install in Feb. Should I assume my car is damaged? I am getting a new pulley after speaking with Ken and James @ Creative but is this going to help the issue?
I have not had any issues with my car but does that mean that everything is OK?
I have not had any issues with my car but does that mean that everything is OK?
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
New Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4-Door Coupe Unveiled: 10 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,176
Likes: 19
From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
Why would the key way only be damaged at the tip of the keyway rather than down the entire keyway if the bolt was not torqued down right - does this mean when the pulley is installed the key is situated at the rear of the crank slot (back of the pulley) and from the get-go is under stress and the pulley gets the dent and then cannot move?
I actually think the pulley gets the dent when the bolt is torqued down when the pulley holder tool is not used correctly, or more than likely when the tranny lock method is used. Using the tranny lock method is - to me - looking for trouble. The torquing and stresses are completely different when the pulley is held fixed with the tool than when the crank is being held fixed, with the torquing plane very offset from the locking plane. With the pulley tool they are as close as could be in one plane.
I think with the tranny method the pulley bolt begins to grab on the pulley when being torqued, the pulley twists on the crank snout and then damages the keyway....
I can't see why one would risk doing it like this.
We all know what benz say.... why would they have a special tool if they could just lock the tranny up using a bolt??
So that pulley damage looks like faulty install caused during torquing to me....
I actually think the pulley gets the dent when the bolt is torqued down when the pulley holder tool is not used correctly, or more than likely when the tranny lock method is used. Using the tranny lock method is - to me - looking for trouble. The torquing and stresses are completely different when the pulley is held fixed with the tool than when the crank is being held fixed, with the torquing plane very offset from the locking plane. With the pulley tool they are as close as could be in one plane.
I think with the tranny method the pulley bolt begins to grab on the pulley when being torqued, the pulley twists on the crank snout and then damages the keyway....
I can't see why one would risk doing it like this.We all know what benz say.... why would they have a special tool if they could just lock the tranny up using a bolt??
So that pulley damage looks like faulty install caused during torquing to me....
Last edited by stevebez; Jul 10, 2008 at 05:43 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,130
Likes: 36
From: Carefree az usa
2020 S560,14 ml350, 03 sl55, silver, pano, slr cams, evo headers, lsd, 2019 s63 cab.
BrianS came over last weekend and we checked out the wobble in the VRP pulley. it does go away when the revs are upped a little. i thought it would be a optical illusion making the wobble disappear but brian checked out and it does balance out under higher RPMs. the belts look and track fine.
the squeak is loud upon start up with the VRP pulley wrap and i am getting a new idler pulley to replace for a start. still trying to isolate the correct squeak maker.
the squeak is loud upon start up with the VRP pulley wrap and i am getting a new idler pulley to replace for a start. still trying to isolate the correct squeak maker.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix
E55
My Renntech pulley has a slight wobble since my install in Feb. Should I assume my car is damaged? I am getting a new pulley after speaking with Ken and James @ Creative but is this going to help the issue?
I have not had any issues with my car but does that mean that everything is OK?
I have not had any issues with my car but does that mean that everything is OK?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,517
Likes: 9
From: Daytona, Florida
SL600
I wanted to start this thread because I wanted to provide some more information on Crank Pulley damage that results from an improper install.
There was a thread that was started a few weeks ago where we were discussing whether or not a VRP pulley suffered damage either from an improper install or because it was defective.
There was a thread that was started a few weeks ago where we were discussing whether or not a VRP pulley suffered damage either from an improper install or because it was defective.
I think it was obvious to everybody what was going on in the other thread, especially after it came out that you had requested the bolt but instead it got "thrown away".
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 1
From: Mia
2005 E 55
Why would the key way only be damaged at the tip of the keyway rather than down the entire keyway if the bolt was not torqued down right - does this mean when the pulley is installed the key is situated at the rear of the crank slot (back of the pulley) and from the get-go is under stress and the pulley gets the dent and then cannot move?
I actually think the pulley gets the dent when the bolt is torqued down when the pulley holder tool is not used correctly, or more than likely when the tranny lock method is used. Using the tranny lock method is - to me - looking for trouble. The torquing and stresses are completely different when the pulley is held fixed with the tool than when the crank is being held fixed, with the torquing plane very offset from the locking plane. With the pulley tool they are as close as could be in one plane.
I think with the tranny method the pulley bolt begins to grab on the pulley when being torqued, the pulley twists on the crank snout and then damages the keyway.... I can't see why one would risk doing it like this.
We all know what benz say.... why would they have a special tool if they could just lock the tranny up using a bolt??
So that pulley damage looks like faulty install caused during torquing to me....
I actually think the pulley gets the dent when the bolt is torqued down when the pulley holder tool is not used correctly, or more than likely when the tranny lock method is used. Using the tranny lock method is - to me - looking for trouble. The torquing and stresses are completely different when the pulley is held fixed with the tool than when the crank is being held fixed, with the torquing plane very offset from the locking plane. With the pulley tool they are as close as could be in one plane.
I think with the tranny method the pulley bolt begins to grab on the pulley when being torqued, the pulley twists on the crank snout and then damages the keyway....
I can't see why one would risk doing it like this.We all know what benz say.... why would they have a special tool if they could just lock the tranny up using a bolt??
So that pulley damage looks like faulty install caused during torquing to me....
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,654
Likes: 1
From: orange county, ca
2006 E55
My Renntech pulley has a slight wobble since my install in Feb. Should I assume my car is damaged? I am getting a new pulley after speaking with Ken and James @ Creative but is this going to help the issue?
I have not had any issues with my car but does that mean that everything is OK?
I have not had any issues with my car but does that mean that everything is OK?
my first gen. pulley also had a wobble. After sending a second pulley, that one wobbled, so Ken got me a new dampened pulley, and it also wobbles.
So I guess its safe to say that a slight wobble should be OK.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 418
Likes: 1
08 MB
I'm having trouble understanding all the confusion here. I believe Jangy mentioned here and others have in the last thread about checking for accuracy, etc. that any machinist/engineer can do. We do have tools for this and don't live in the stone ages.
1) Check material hardness for accuracy.
2) Put a dial indicator on the pulley and check for variance between factory and aftermarket wobble.
I'm sure there are few other things that can be done that I may not be aware of but a machinist/engineer knows.
1) Check material hardness for accuracy.
2) Put a dial indicator on the pulley and check for variance between factory and aftermarket wobble.
I'm sure there are few other things that can be done that I may not be aware of but a machinist/engineer knows.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 3
From: Chicago, IL
Real Cars
Gents,
Something smells very fishy here. It's not VRP, and it's not CPT... something is smelling awfully fishy from Germany. I am seeing MORE and MORE evidence of pulleys from MB that have never been touched/modified wobbling/damanged. We have now a picture of a never re-installed pulley (that wouldn't be subject to install/torque errors) having keyway damage. Now, I, like everyone, want to believe this hand-built business is great and AMG is the best engine builder out there - but I have seen some very f'd up things from OEM manufacturers before - and I think at the very least we need to start looking into the AMG/Factory side of things a bit more closely.
The plot thickens.
-m
Something smells very fishy here. It's not VRP, and it's not CPT... something is smelling awfully fishy from Germany. I am seeing MORE and MORE evidence of pulleys from MB that have never been touched/modified wobbling/damanged. We have now a picture of a never re-installed pulley (that wouldn't be subject to install/torque errors) having keyway damage. Now, I, like everyone, want to believe this hand-built business is great and AMG is the best engine builder out there - but I have seen some very f'd up things from OEM manufacturers before - and I think at the very least we need to start looking into the AMG/Factory side of things a bit more closely.
The plot thickens.
-m
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,649
Likes: 207
'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
my stock pulley wobbled ever so slightly and so does my asp and i don't think it's a problem to be overly concerned with.
my stock pulley also had damage to the keyway when it was removed. i personally don't think it's an installation problem but more of a problem when the s/c kicks in and causes a large and abrupt tq spike against the crank pulley. this could be another reason why mb designed the new s/c clutch to engage smoother (you know they wouldn't do it just for our comfort).
my stock pulley also had damage to the keyway when it was removed. i personally don't think it's an installation problem but more of a problem when the s/c kicks in and causes a large and abrupt tq spike against the crank pulley. this could be another reason why mb designed the new s/c clutch to engage smoother (you know they wouldn't do it just for our comfort).
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 3
From: Chicago, IL
Real Cars
chiro,
It may not be a big deal when there's a slight wobble, but that slight wobble can be exasterbated by larger pullies and multiple installs. A wobbling crank pulley, I think you will agree, is not a good thing. A slight wobble may not be the end of the world, but I've seen some pretty significant wobbles.
We may need to look at things from a whole new angle - meaning part of installation may require observing stock wobble, checking the stock key/keyway, and make adjustments as necessary, because it could be what you are saying or it could be some of these engine builders in Germany may be cutting corners
-m
It may not be a big deal when there's a slight wobble, but that slight wobble can be exasterbated by larger pullies and multiple installs. A wobbling crank pulley, I think you will agree, is not a good thing. A slight wobble may not be the end of the world, but I've seen some pretty significant wobbles.
We may need to look at things from a whole new angle - meaning part of installation may require observing stock wobble, checking the stock key/keyway, and make adjustments as necessary, because it could be what you are saying or it could be some of these engine builders in Germany may be cutting corners
-m
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,130
Likes: 36
From: Carefree az usa
2020 S560,14 ml350, 03 sl55, silver, pano, slr cams, evo headers, lsd, 2019 s63 cab.
checked my asp pulley removed for install of vrp and there was no sign of damage to keyway. slight wobble does exist with both pulleys. My stock pulley looks clean and no damage to keyway.
Last edited by theboogers; Jul 11, 2008 at 07:12 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix
E55
My Renntech pulley had a wobble... but it was laminated out of plane ever so slightly. No key way or crank damage though. I now have VRP without any wobble. Pretty sure George did not fubar the install. 
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 373
Likes: 1
CL65
I just checked my stock pulley. It looks just like Al's picture. My stock pulley had never been removed before. Also I have a slight wobble in my Renntech pulley at idle and have never had any belt trouble.
