jangy

but under what conditions? Other than that, you were waaay tooo technical for me. Not meaning to pick on your 3" size BUT.

I'm not about to tear into my head to try to figure out if a larger TB would help. It iw MUCH cheaper to have a larger TB made and tested.

Think about it...you have 2X3" tubes feeding the intake, 1X3" tube feeding the engine, and 2X3" tubes going out to the exhaust.

As much as I've played with this motor, I'm willing to bet gains from a larger TB. By bet, I mean we both pay a set amount to a vendor and have them make and test it. If you win, they pay you the rest of the money. If I win, i get it. I am making no claims about how the car will run or anything. It may even throw lots of CELs, or whatever BUT I bet it will give more power.

MB is holding these motors by the throat. That is how they are governing them

Exotic-metal55

Sorry for not being clear but only used to speaking in WOT language..

I agree ...

This would be a whole other topic but in a nut-shell .. Intake and exhaust sizes are different events and air speeds.. Hard to compare sizes for restriction. IMO. 3" sounds small but really it is 3.16 (80mm) X PI 3.14 or just under 10" of air volume..



Very fair bet but I would buy a 90 plus mm TB if there was one.. Hard to oversize a TB and then the extra CFM is there to grow on!!

I am not saying there are not any gains to be had from a larger TB but I feel with a few bolt ons that they would be very small to none. Add cams and heads and all bolt ons and things change.. 5-7 hp are gains are ok but do not get my betting blood flowing If this custom TB cost $1000 plus dollars,, then it exceeds my HP to $ ratio..

How about we put a similar moded E55 with a stall/ converter added against your larger TB mod? Then two mods could be tested.. A nice stall can be one of the best bangs for the buck.. Really make a heavy car come alive!!!




I agree! TB and exhaust choke

jangy

Hey exotic...I'm feeling you and I am getting some of your technical stuff. Here's my issue...the 80mmTB is already over $1000 itself, so IF a larger one was better for performance, it wouldn't make any difference in price. Either way, we need to upgrade our TBs. Now, you mention other mods. I am down. I always assumed that the TB will become an issue as I mod it more and more. Is that logical? I am basically thinking that the pressure drop would allow more air to get in AND reduce the drag (power and heat) from the SC. Funny thing is that our "80mm" TBs aren't even 80mm. Different ones have different "lips" and most are actually 78mm.

Exotic-metal55

I will post and idea(85mm-90mm) and pictures soon. Having attachment errors on the upload.

Exotic-metal55

TO me the key to getting a larger TB quickly, is re-working or having the MFG re-work the Hemi/Chrysler aftermartket to TB for the Benz. I know from past post that this has been looked at and the wires are different but that should be a pretty easy fix/modification..

The Hemi already has what seems to be the exact same housing and external electronic housing.. They have aftermarket MFG`s making 90mm TB`s already and even have adaptor plates.. If the 90mm had a wider bolt pattern, it would be easier to bolt on.. I would think a tuner could contact BBK or the other TB MFG`s and see if they will adapt the electronics. Hell, they are 80% there already..

Picture one is a 85mm Hemi TB. Look familiar?
Picture two is a 85-90mm Hemi TB with open side plate.
Picture three, is the VRP 80mm TB and kit.
They have modified this to take a mechanical linkage but you can see the simple inner workings.. In basic form,, a TB is just an electrical motor that takes a signal from the ECU to open and close a flap, using small gears..

Sollution:
1) Contact aftermarket Hemi TB MFG`s to see if they will adapt electronics for our market. They will need a market study to investigate market penetration value..$$$$$
2) Find electrical engineer or equal to modify Hemi TB to work with our ECU to open little flap with gears..

jangy

You da man, exotic. I know plenty that were able to get the wires right for the OEM 80mms to fit the E55s earlier, so that should be no issue. I'll contact the Hemi folks and see what i can get worked out. If nothing else, I'll use my car as a test and have them make 1.

Exotic-metal55

Jangy,, You da man! I can`t wait to see what you come up with.. How about two test samples?

Here is a picture of a 90mm hemi aftermarket TB? Sure would look nice on your blower all made out of nice pretty Billet!


BTW, if it does not have the PVC hose port,, that will be an easy drill and press fit adaptation.

jangy

Yup, I found out about that with the MB TBs, too.

MJ50

jangy,
are these the parts u need for complete bolt-on install?
if so, i'm ordering them now...

jangy

Let me get a full list. I think somebody that bought them pointed out that one of the parts is off?

Can anyone tell me what kind of pricing they are getting on these? I want to know if it is worth selling them as a kit, instead of continually trying to figure out the parts. I saw one again today (sorry, didn't think to get the numbers), but it is 100% plug and play. The only thing that is different is the big rubber thing over the electronics. I think it is flipped so that it sticks up more than ours, so you may have fittment issues with a VRP CF Airbox.

MJ50

i checked part #s with dealer
i was told the elbow 80mm can't be purchased alone since it's part of a 'kit'... i have the kit part # at work...

jangy

That would help and I'll call my Mb buddy.

MJ50

113 094 02 03 for elbow 80mm (#355)

A113 090 03 29 actually contains above part (#350)

Exotic-metal55

I have been working on this for a month now (only a few hours and will post pictures and all the info after I have my facts together. I know that I have at least an extra 80mm Inlet/gaskets to sell already.. I have bought parts based on posted info and they are not all fitting well . Warning: Guessing at these parts can cost more than the whole kit from a tuner,, so shop smart..

I have gathered more info from members PM-ing privately, than asking in open forums for it(go figure) . They wanted the info posted but not thier names. Since I am here to share info and recieve info for the better of the sport,, and most of all not a "shop Pet" I will post everything when I have more facts..

Below in bold is the 07 sl55 TB.. This part needs re-working to made to work with inlet you have numbers on. The clips ont he Y pipe will also not fit and need to be modified.. I would not use this part , unless you have resources.. BTW, I am using the 07 sl55 TB on my car but have re-worked it to fit.


2007 SL55 TB 113 140 01 04 (Needs work to make work)


From what I have gathered and been assured 1000% in PM`s,, below is what you need.. You will still need to swap the wires on the TB to make it work but that is easy. Again, when I finish with my parts, I will post everything but if you are in a hurry, I feel comfortable with the info below.

AMG 80mm TB - 113 141 05 25

S/C inlet 80mm - 113 140 09 12

S/C inlet gasket - 113 141 07 80

80mm TB gasket - 137 141 07 80

80mm Y-Pipe with tubes - 113 090 03 29
(Y-pipe cannot be ordered without tubes anymore, comes as a kit)

MJ50

another quote i got was 1150+

komp55

You've listed just under $1,200 worth of parts from your local MB dealer. I'm sure the tuners charging prices ranging from $1,999 to $3,495 for these identical pieces will be pleased with you.

blueknight

Nothing wrong in doing your own homework and sharing it with your classmates. Let's face it most of us modders have purchased a used 55 and bought it for this purpose therefor needing to save wherever we can as we all know how much it can cost for this sickness. If you have the cash flow then nothing stops you from paying someone else to purchase and install it for you.

As time goes on and thx to all the info on this forum, I have taken on some DYI projects myself and loved all of them.
Each DYI I do builds more and more confindence, this will be just another one I look forward to.

Exotic-metal55

I hope that is not the sentiment from our vendors.. If so, ill will over stock mb parts info,, will kill our 55 aftermarket!!

I am just a customer pushing for MORE POWER at the best price possible! This 55 motor is beyond words and the sooner the tuners get away from stock over the counter MB parts,, the more power we will make , the faster our cars will go, the more people will add mods , the more we will save and the VENDOR will make more $$.. Win -Win..

BTW, The 80mm TBs I have mic-ed are really only 78mm. Yes, 80mm at the flaired edge but that does not count.. That is only a 4mm increase over stock.

We need the tuners to bring us an aftermarket TB and inlet that is 90mm plus.. A new inlet can be molded and the design improved over the so called 80mm tb/inlet combo.. I bet 80% of the people that bought the 80mm kit will get the new larger kit.. Power is addicting!

jangy

Funny how we are always on the opposite side of things. So, you say the tuners use the exact same parts, charge us extra, and we should be quiet about it? Shame on all of those that hide these things, because you are only holding the consumer back. Haha!! I started this campaign almost 2 years ago and we've seen the prices tumble. Don't forget that $1200 is friggin MB retail!!

jangy

I'm still waiting for some info on the 90mm one. Nice note Exotic about it being only 78mm. That is one thing that RennTech notes as well. I believe all of the MB 80mm TBs are that way. i also thought out OEM ones did the same.

jangy

Okay so the consensus (found by Exotic) is :

AMG 80mm TB - 113 141 05 25

S/C inlet 80mm - 113 140 09 12

S/C inlet gasket - 113 141 07 80

80mm TB gasket - 137 141 07 80

80mm Y-Pipe with tubes - 113 090 03 29
(Y-pipe cannot be ordered without tubes anymore, comes as a kit)

Who can get a deal on them?

Exotic-metal55

I was PM-ed that Renntech is offering a 82mm TB now? For their stage 5? Anyone have any info on this? Did a new MB model come out with a larger TB?

jangy

Never heard of such or that RT had a new one. I've heard rumors that Mb has a true 80mm (that is a 82 at the mouth) but never seen it or gotten real details. I also heard that it was a Maybach part, but dunno.

komp55

Didn't realize we're on the opposite side of things all that much. Especially on this one. I was trying to be glib, but my attempt at sarcasm obviously failed. Next time, I will state the obvious. Hopefully you will re-read my post in its intended sarcastic context.

Personally, I think the mark-up's we're being asked to pay by "tuners" simply because we drive an E55, or other MBs for that matter, are outrageous, and the TB upgrade is a prime example. Even the most favorably priced tuner exacts about a 68% mark-up on this upgrade. I sincerely applaud your and others' efforts in unraveling the mystery of the 80mm TB conversion.

I can confirm the bit about not being able to order the 113 094 02 03 air distributor housing (the "Y" or "T" inlet to the TB) as a single piece. Today my parts guy at the MB dealership tried every way he knew how to try to get a price on it so he could order it for me, but couldn't. I ended up ordering the complete assembly with the hoses.

jangy

My bad. I've been pretty tense on here lately and I do apologize. After 5 years here it gets hard to tell your friends from others...


On another note, I am hearing that the parts can be had at $1000 (friend's cost). Is there an MB dealer that is a sponsor on here? If so, maybe we can get them to do a Group Buy?