chiromikey

I'm not saying there isn't an 11 in your c63, I'm saying it's not indicative of anything above and beyond other tuners. iirc, all tuners are already claiming to bring 63's up to 520-530hp and when you apply that to the lighter c, running 11's isn't anything extraordinary.

not to mention, we've already seen a bone stock e63 run 11's.

MHP

Tell those tuners (who are dynoing in 4th gear for better numbers as I've already shown) to hit the track like we do and put their $ where their mouths are. I don't see Renntech, Brabus, Kleeman, etc. doing any real world testing. Why do you think that is? Everyone knows how easy it is to tamper with dyno results, running at the track and/or against other known cars is where it's at when it comes to comparisons.

Stock C63 v Stock E55: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmQ94HHK7BE

...and you're saying that the fact that my C63 with tunes/filters only was essentially dead even with a E55 with (TB, pulley, ECU tune, CAIs/filters, longtubes, catback) from a 50-130 roll doesn't prove anything???
Do you not agree that a stock C63 would get destroyed by Rock's E55?

One E63 (I'm sure it had more than 2300 miles on it) ran an 11 at ATCO or Englishtown yes that's true, and I'm also certain had I run at one of those tracks instead of at Norwalk with 850' elevation I would've been in the low 11.8s if not 11.7s--not bogging on launch. You've seen the dyno curves of all other 63s vs the Cs correct? If so you'd know how much the stock tune kills power from 5500rpm up in the Cs, far worse than in the other models.

MarkoCL65

Apples to apples please. You know how much mileage effects the 63 motor, or any other NA motor at that. Why do people think it's such rocket science to maximize horsepower out of an internal combustion engine? It's a bit more tricky with an NA car vs forced induction but relatively easy when you have total control of fuel and timing and your baseline is a warranty/low-octane friendly conservative setting. To get the ECU and TCU to work together to eliminate power depriving torque management is where the difficulty lays in these cars. Sometimes the treasure is not exposed for everyone to see, but those who know where to look will enjoy the riches. We are all flattered by peak numbers which, more often than not, fail to yield the results we're seeking.

MHP

You make some good points Marcus. Let me speak with Dave and legal counsel again and get back with you.

Thanks
Andy

MHP

Very well stated Marko.

Honestly I'm dying for other 63 owners to just drive my car. I'm more than willing to let anyone that wants to take it out and beat the snot out of it (on or off the track) to further the data that's already been posted.

MB_Forever

I just want to say that I actually agree with Andy on this point. If he's offering a product that requires two components to work together as one and in harmony to produce optimal (reliable) results, then it makes sense to offer these two components as one package. Getting only one component of that package does not necessarily garauntee optimal results especially if the car is heavily modded, as there is know way for him to know to what extent the other ECU tune is doing, or how much it's pushing the car and what it's trying to do in terms of TCU. On a stock car, the tune is mild enough as to allow for a good safety margin, but on a highly modded car, it'll be a risk. And of course if something does go wrong, all fingers will be pointed back at MHP.

Andy, you may want to consider the liability disclaimer option you mentioned above at least to make it clear that getting only the TCU tune is at your own risk although I feel you may still be blamed if something does happen And we all know how expensive AMGs are to fix.

EastCoastAMG

YES, it shifts at 7,000RPM stock - guarenteed! See my new thread on the topic...

MHP

Mo,
The disclaimer would be mandatory in such a situation, but again as you stated, I don't want my name associated with anything that blows up.

MHP

Actually, it's not guaranteed. Take a poll in the 204 Forum asking owners (not just joyriders) their opinion and prepare to eat crow.

Thanks

MB_Forever

chiromikey, just minimizing adaptations is a huge benefit. Adaptations sometimes make every shift so slow and sluggish. On my car, I actually seen a difference in accelearation using the Performance Box between running the car after adaptations and running the car after a fresh TCU re-set by the dealer. There is definitely a very noticeable difference. From the video posted by Andy, the shifts seem to be fast, crisp, and consistent compared to my car. I think it would've helped to film the shift points when the car was stock though

But even aside from making shifts a little faster and a little firmer, the throttle blibbing feature is one awesome feature to have especially on road course.

MHP

If it comes down to it I'll put a stocker back in and film it.

Otherwise I'm trying to setup a race vs a stock local C63 (with more miles to boot) and a stock 08 Gallardo for frame of reference.

I'm sure once the owner (member of this site) of said cars drives mine he'll also have something to say about the difference between his C63 and mine.

JT55

You want to be honest without getting into a pissing match? Okay lets.
You fall under that category of the guy I spoke of 1 week ago that will not be satisfied no matter what the results where, how much the tune costs or what Data Andy supplies.
There are all types of people and personalities in this world. Some people are easier than others to please - some aren't. Some will never be pleased no matter what.
I told Andy 100 posts ago to quit this Absurd banter and take all questions privately. THe results the people who are willing to try his products get will be made public and then people will make their own decisions based on hard real world facts. NOT Videos or Data.
None of you would dare challenge a Brabus Tech or Kleemann or Renntech Tech like this. And the obvious answer would be because they were proven etc and they have the name.
What they also have is prob 1000x as much money as Andy does for Marketing and Promotion. Which in this world is everything. As an ex-advertising guy try to tell me i dont know what I'm talking ab. Every image is created and crafted through marketing and obv. then performance and service. There are MILLIONS of dollars spent doing this - No CEO of Renntech or Kleemann is getting on the boards answering all our moronic redundant questions. I 1000% guarantee if I crafted him a slick brochure and hired a PR firm I could get him right into the world of these tuners (money no object of course) I'm at a loss to explain (and I'm on a really serious note here there is no JT sarcasm or humor) what this thread has morphed into - why is this continuing? Andy can never win this - nobody will ever be FULLY satisfied there is no such thing - not in life or tuning guys. Those who want to try his products -there is more than ample evidence plus a testimonial (Rock) that the stuff works. Some of us talk alot and some of us actually do. Im a do-er. And in the end if it doesnt work out for me - oh well. I will survive and move on. So at this point either get your CC or checkbooks out or tie your hands together. Seriously. (And Chiro this was not solely aimed at u - it kinda evolved into a generality)

blackbenzz

WRONG! I dont care who presents the data, if its not solid I will question it.

MB_Forever

+1

Although some people prefer one tuner while others prefer another, and so on, most of the people on the forum tend to question (criticize) RennTech and Kleemann claims first, then other tuners

MB_Forever

Andy, wasn't rick (rarfinancial) going to test your TCU/ECU in his CLS63? His CLS63 shifts exactly as other E63s. If he makes a video showing shifts from 1st to 2nd, it should put all this to rest.

BlackOnBlackCLK

question everthing & trust nobody

Vic55

Trust yet verify

tuningtechnician

AMGfan

The only thing that will quell the stinky eye from members is a combination of time, proven installs, customer service, and competitive pricing. Any new sponsor that has a product line that is being introduced will get the same treatment...we are the vetting stream that Andy has to swim through.

If he survives this forum MHP should do fine...just relax.

chiromikey

through all of our pm's you should know how i feel about dyno numbers compared to track results so please don't preach to me on that subject.

i do agree a stock c63 should get destroyed by rock's car. but simply removing the detuning on a c model amg is huge compared to any other model as we both know it's the most detuned and lightest model amg63.

my assertion is that (so far) your tune isn't backing up your claims. at least not when looking at your mph, et, or 60ft times. i do hope things improve.

chiromikey

just because i'm not easily satisfied doesn't give you or anyone the right to discredit what i'm saying. i've had most of my parts custom built because i don't believe in the rediculous aftermarket prices for marginal performance improvements that mb tuners offer. so please don't lump me in the catagory of someone who simply talks alot and doesn't follow through. also, i don't believe in fancy colors or pr...i believe in numbers and performance. when i see those, THEN and only then will i jump on the bandwagon!

Rock

Andy,

Any chance of hooking up at Dragway 42 this week (Tuesday)? I'm sure a lot of these guys would like to compare our numbers with runs on the same track.

Roman Moronie

Rough crowd! Having not read this entire thread, but having read most of the important stuff I gather that Andy is never going to be able to make everyone happy. If Andy could bring my stock CLK 63 cabrio up from 475 hp to close over 550 I would be extremely pleased, however I think the $6000.00 buy-in is a bit on the steep side, but then again he is offering stuff nobody else can offer. I assume when other tuners can offer the same thing competition will bring the prices back down to earth. I am going to wait another week or so to see some more results before I make any decisions, but I like wha ti see so far.

evilb

Isn't everything "at your own risk?" They're modifying the TCU with no long term testing for reliability. Do you think if people start grenading transmissions that MHP will actually be assuming the "risk" part of that statement and replacing transmissions??

I didn't see any warranty expressed or implied for the ECU/TCU products offered, other than the obvious which would be to replace/reflash one that was defective or became defective.

evilb

I still can't believe you're talking down to proven tuners, when all you've produced so far is snake oil.

Show us dyno charts, don't keep referencing pointless YouTube videos.