Update: MHP ECU/TCU Tuning (Throttle Blipping, etc, DONE!)
09-24-2008, 01:36 AM
#551
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...It would stand to reason by simple logic that the reason it costs more to tune a ECU/TCU from MB than Chrysler would be because the core market for such a tune is alot less for MB's than for Chryslers. So if you invested say 100k in this and the potential number of customers is perhaps 1% of all 63 owners how many could you possibly sell?
Now apply that same 1% to Chryslers the numbers would undoubtedly be higher because there are more Chryslers made than 63 MB's.
The same goes for Headers and everything else. Evosport charges 12k for the full exhaust. YOU can buy a full exhaust for a Mustang for probably 2k. (just guessing) I don't hear anyone screamin ab Evosport and their prices or any of the other tuners...
Now apply that same 1% to Chryslers the numbers would undoubtedly be higher because there are more Chryslers made than 63 MB's.
The same goes for Headers and everything else. Evosport charges 12k for the full exhaust. YOU can buy a full exhaust for a Mustang for probably 2k. (just guessing) I don't hear anyone screamin ab Evosport and their prices or any of the other tuners...
i ran the production numbers last year and there wasn't that much of a difference between total srt8's and amg's. and in this conversation, srt8's are really what we're referring to when we say "chrysler".
btw, i did scream about evosport's, supersprint's, et al's prices about headers...which is why mine are custom!
09-24-2008, 02:25 AM
#554
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you and i buried the hatchet so this is not an attack or rebuttal as much as it is an fyi.
i ran the production numbers last year and there wasn't that much of a difference between total srt8's and amg's. and in this conversation, srt8's are really what we're referring to when we say "chrysler".
btw, i did scream about evosport's, supersprint's, et al's prices about headers...which is why mine are custom!
i ran the production numbers last year and there wasn't that much of a difference between total srt8's and amg's. and in this conversation, srt8's are really what we're referring to when we say "chrysler".
btw, i did scream about evosport's, supersprint's, et al's prices about headers...which is why mine are custom!
09-24-2008, 02:50 AM
#555
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Chrysler doesn't use a vast array of different ECU/TCUs let alone multiple code versions like Mercedes does; think about how many different models/platforms/engines/trannys MB has vs. just a 6.1 mated to a NAG1/modified WA5A580 which comprises all SRT8 drivelines. The two are simply not comparable.
09-24-2008, 03:00 AM
#556
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'09 C63 AMG
The same basic tune as in baseline timing, A/F etc, but they have to be written from scratch per ECU/TCU, as we haven't found a redundant code yet, making every tune a custom tune.
I'm not certain how many more times or ways I can say that.
I'm not certain how many more times or ways I can say that.
09-24-2008, 07:51 AM
#557
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09-24-2008, 07:52 AM
#558
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Do you even own a 63 variant or are you just here to be a PITA? I'm looking for an E63 example right now, guess what, he'll be running the same tune I am right now (with V2 ECU improvements) and he'll at least make the same power (actually more due to the chance that their motor is actually broken in) or more (IMO 440rw).
The stock dyno of the Renntech tuned C63 is so obviously manipulated it's pathetic. Find another C63 that dyno'd that low on a DJ SAE, the other 3 dynos (besides mine which laid down 373-376rw SAE stock) are all around 375rwhp SAE. If you don't realize that some tuners/shops often post low numbers pretune/part install to make themselves look better I don't know what to tell you.
What the hell are you talking about reg. longterm durability? Do you really think we're going to kick out a product that causes drivetrains to self destruct? There's no quicker way for an entity to put themselves out of business than by doing so.
The fact that no one else can tune a TCU has nothing to do with reliability. As I've already said countless times, we can make more power than other tuners MORE safely because we link the ECU/TCUs.
It's simple math, if they could do it they would, end of story.
The fact that no one else can tune a TCU has nothing to do with reliability. As I've already said countless times, we can make more power than other tuners MORE safely because we link the ECU/TCUs.
It's simple math, if they could do it they would, end of story.
Why is long term reliability such a difficult concept for you to grasp? You're changing something from how the manufacturer developed it, and you have zero concerns at all about the effects on the driveline??
Again, you're referencing "we make more power" over and over.
LMAO. Nothing could be farther from the truth. You'll hear more about how refined the part throttle and WOT performance is (MUCH improved over stock) from other mbworld members in the next few days when they drive my car. I'm sorry but that was quite a stupid statement. The quarter mile is simply one measuring stick, and results were asked for by potential customers. It's unbelievable to me that you can sit here and attempt to spin the fact that we've posted quarter mile results--are actually testing what we sell. 
So the 1/4 mile is just one measuring stick. Besides the dyno results, what are the other measuring sticks?
09-24-2008, 09:22 AM
#559
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Andy really does have a point about him dyno'ing in 5th when renntech is using 4th, renntech is kinda cheating. Since 5th in the C63 is a perfect 1:1, that's the gear they should be using.
09-24-2008, 10:42 AM
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CLK63 BS AUDI S5 AUDI Q7 4.2 SLine C230 Sport 2010 ML 350
you and i buried the hatchet so this is not an attack or rebuttal as much as it is an fyi.
i ran the production numbers last year and there wasn't that much of a difference between total srt8's and amg's. and in this conversation, srt8's are really what we're referring to when we say "chrysler".
btw, i did scream about evosport's, supersprint's, et al's prices about headers...which is why mine are custom!
i ran the production numbers last year and there wasn't that much of a difference between total srt8's and amg's. and in this conversation, srt8's are really what we're referring to when we say "chrysler".
btw, i did scream about evosport's, supersprint's, et al's prices about headers...which is why mine are custom!
However before he contacts me - Tuning Technician (Bruce) who is engineering my build is quite possibly the only guy that has ever given me a fair price up front and even charged me cost on some of the parts I have ordered through him. (not evosports) and is genuinely as excited if not more about this project than me and this is not cheerleading its facts.
09-24-2008, 12:09 PM
#561
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You want to dyno using whichever gear in the particular car you're testing that comes the closest to a 1:1 ratio. Otherwise, the principle of leverage will falsely inflate the power numbers.
Andy really does have a point about him dyno'ing in 5th when renntech is using 4th, renntech is kinda cheating. Since 5th in the C63 is a perfect 1:1, that's the gear they should be using.
Andy really does have a point about him dyno'ing in 5th when renntech is using 4th, renntech is kinda cheating. Since 5th in the C63 is a perfect 1:1, that's the gear they should be using.
I remember being content that my E55 was making "only" 419 rwhp on my 3rd gear dyno pulls because the ones that were making over 425-430 were doing so in 4th gear. False sense of security, maybe?
09-24-2008, 12:45 PM
#562
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Tell you what, when you have as much time and $ invested into this as we do you can call your own shots. The best part will be when you actually give people everything they ask for, they'll still find something to complain about.
ps--despite all the "excuses" the car did do the talking and has continued to do so by making more power on the dyno, running with cars that should have walked it, and running quicker/faster than any other C63 in the world that I know of. Not to mention it's just with tuning/filters.
Thanks
ps--despite all the "excuses" the car did do the talking and has continued to do so by making more power on the dyno, running with cars that should have walked it, and running quicker/faster than any other C63 in the world that I know of. Not to mention it's just with tuning/filters.
Thanks
My whole point was that people love "before and after" pictures/videos ect. All youve shown is the "after"---obviously people start to question. hence my suggestion to show the back to back comparisons. Stock ecu vs control car then switch to Tuned ecu vs control car---that will end (most) arguements.
Btw---Im on ur side...u'll be getting my money--just trying to help u prove ur point.
09-24-2008, 01:22 PM
#563
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W211 E55
09-24-2008, 01:57 PM
#564
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'09 C63 AMG
I know that ideally you want to dyno your car in the gear that gets you as close to 1:1 as possible, but based on what I have followed on this site, it seems that dynoing in a lower gear (3rd v. 4th in the E55) will actually reflect slightly lower numbers. Am I wrong? Serious question.
I remember being content that my E55 was making "only" 419 rwhp on my 3rd gear dyno pulls because the ones that were making over 425-430 were doing so in 4th gear. False sense of security, maybe?
I remember being content that my E55 was making "only" 419 rwhp on my 3rd gear dyno pulls because the ones that were making over 425-430 were doing so in 4th gear. False sense of security, maybe?
If you check the 63 dyno thread there is another example of a 63 making more HP but less tq in 4th vs 5th.
Thanks
Last edited by MHP; 09-24-2008 at 02:24 PM.
09-24-2008, 02:21 PM
#565
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I know that ideally you want to dyno your car in the gear that gets you as close to 1:1 as possible, but based on what I have followed on this site, it seems that dynoing in a lower gear (3rd v. 4th in the E55) will actually reflect slightly lower numbers. Am I wrong? Serious question.
I remember being content that my E55 was making "only" 419 rwhp on my 3rd gear dyno pulls because the ones that were making over 425-430 were doing so in 4th gear. False sense of security, maybe?
I remember being content that my E55 was making "only" 419 rwhp on my 3rd gear dyno pulls because the ones that were making over 425-430 were doing so in 4th gear. False sense of security, maybe?
09-24-2008, 02:24 PM
#566
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Andy,
My whole point was that people love "before and after" pictures/videos ect. All youve shown is the "after"---obviously people start to question. hence my suggestion to show the back to back comparisons. Stock ecu vs control car then switch to Tuned ecu vs control car---that will end (most) arguements.
Btw---Im on ur side...u'll be getting my money--just trying to help u prove ur point.
My whole point was that people love "before and after" pictures/videos ect. All youve shown is the "after"---obviously people start to question. hence my suggestion to show the back to back comparisons. Stock ecu vs control car then switch to Tuned ecu vs control car---that will end (most) arguements.
Btw---Im on ur side...u'll be getting my money--just trying to help u prove ur point.
More vids coming in the next 2 days: Stock C63, Stock 08 Gallardo. Tonight a E63 with DRs on and off a 125 shot.
Thanks
Andy
09-24-2008, 02:26 PM
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'09 C63 AMG
Thanks
Andy
09-24-2008, 02:27 PM
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However before he contacts me - Tuning Technician (Bruce) who is engineering my build is quite possibly the only guy that has ever given me a fair price up front and even charged me cost on some of the parts I have ordered through him. (not evosports) and is genuinely as excited if not more about this project than me and this is not cheerleading its facts.
09-24-2008, 02:29 PM
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Thanks
09-24-2008, 02:57 PM
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
I know that ideally you want to dyno your car in the gear that gets you as close to 1:1 as possible, but based on what I have followed on this site, it seems that dynoing in a lower gear (3rd v. 4th in the E55) will actually reflect slightly lower numbers. Am I wrong? Serious question.
09-24-2008, 03:48 PM
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14-F Sport, 07-CLS63 2003-HUMMER 2004-Suburban 2008-MAX 2005-YZF R1
09-24-2008, 04:25 PM
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E55 (for sale if the right offer comes along)...too many others to list
09-24-2008, 05:55 PM
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E55 (for sale if the right offer comes along)...too many others to list
