OT: Chicago People
11-06-2008, 02:06 PM
#76
MBWorld Fanatic!
I agree if you take things to extreme but that's the problem everyone thinks in terms of extreme and I am not sure that is the case in point here.
I take the issue of money distribution as the following example but I may be wrong and am not making the policy. A teacher that is educated with a college degree and making a valuable contribution yet only makes maybe $30-60k a year depending on geography.
Now you may have a guy whether he owns a business or an executive making $500k-1 million plus a year. Is it so bad that these people pay a few percent more in taxes and the teacher above gets a few percent more in a tax break?
I know enough people that own business that just took them over from there families and make millions a year without being that smart or worthy in my opinion as they don't work any harder than the next guy and pretty much had an established business handed to them and good people that make average wages keeping the business going.
In summary the rich need to stop *****ing as jrcart eluded to he will still have plenty of money even with the increase. How much money does a single person really need or "deserve" anyways?
I take the issue of money distribution as the following example but I may be wrong and am not making the policy. A teacher that is educated with a college degree and making a valuable contribution yet only makes maybe $30-60k a year depending on geography.
Now you may have a guy whether he owns a business or an executive making $500k-1 million plus a year. Is it so bad that these people pay a few percent more in taxes and the teacher above gets a few percent more in a tax break?
I know enough people that own business that just took them over from there families and make millions a year without being that smart or worthy in my opinion as they don't work any harder than the next guy and pretty much had an established business handed to them and good people that make average wages keeping the business going.
In summary the rich need to stop *****ing as jrcart eluded to he will still have plenty of money even with the increase. How much money does a single person really need or "deserve" anyways?
Fortunatly guys like me who are smart enough to make millions are also smart enough to create tax free safe havens and find creative and LEGAL ways to move our money to avoid some of these foolish "penelties for the wealthy" they call taxes. Don't get me wrong, I am not against all taxes, they are a necessary evil, I am not ignorant or blind to that fact, but I am already paying far more than my fair share and anyone that thinks I should be paying more is nuts.
Last edited by jrcart; 11-06-2008 at 02:08 PM.
11-06-2008, 02:12 PM
#77
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A business owner making $500k-$1mil a year as you eluded to already does pay a higher percentage than a teacher making $40k, approx 30% vs the teachers approx 23% tax rate. Here is a quick lesson in math. 30% (approx take rate on a guy making $500k) tax on a $500k income is $150K, right? That same teacher making $40K is paying about 23% or $9200.00, I think they are both paying there fair share, The guy making $500k is already paying over 15x more than the teacher and you people want him to pay more? In addition to that, the guy making the $500k is most likely investing a lot of his money, guess what, any interest or gains I make on the money I saved gets taxed yet again, sometimes at an even higher rate You people are nuts adn some of you need to take a better look at the big picture before speaking out on issues that you have little or no knowledge of. Emotion and passion does not equal facts and reality.
Fortunatly guys like me who are smart enough to make millions are also smart enough to create tax free safe havens and find creative and LEGAL ways to move our money to avoid some of these foolish "penelties for the wealthy" they call taxes. Don't get me wrong, I am not against all taxes, they are a necessary evil, I am not ignorant or blind to that fact, but I am already paying far more than my fair share and anyone that thinks I should be paying more is nuts.
Fortunatly guys like me who are smart enough to make millions are also smart enough to create tax free safe havens and find creative and LEGAL ways to move our money to avoid some of these foolish "penelties for the wealthy" they call taxes. Don't get me wrong, I am not against all taxes, they are a necessary evil, I am not ignorant or blind to that fact, but I am already paying far more than my fair share and anyone that thinks I should be paying more is nuts.
+1... I don't make anything close to 1 million, but I don't see it too fair that you get punished when you make more.... In the case above, about 15x more.
I wonder why money is moving off shores??????
11-06-2008, 02:20 PM
#78
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JCart, I agree with you on many parts of this post. However, the insults (not just you started this) could have been kept. Dude, you went insults, racial, all in one sentence. I can understand some people getting upset, and whatever but why stoop to that?
I don't know if you are racist or not (seems to be), but that seemed a little overboard IMO.
I don't know if you are racist or not (seems to be), but that seemed a little overboard IMO.
I work at a company that is affiliated with Medicaid services. I always love seeing the 3 generation span of Mom, daughter, and daughter’s child that would suck on the "system” for years....
I can tell you not everyone on Medicaid is just one race, it encompasses all and many abuse it. Many also need it desperately.
To generalize the way you did about his statement is pretty ignorant since he did not point directly to one race.
11-06-2008, 02:33 PM
#79
MBWorld Fanatic!
Jcart is not racist. The people that take handouts are white, black, yellow, red, and green.
I work at a company that is affiliated with Medicaid services. I always love seeing the 3 generation span of Mom, daughter, and daughter’s child that would suck on the "system” for years....
I can tell you not everyone on Medicaid is just one race, it encompasses all and many abuse it. Many also need it desperately.
To generalize the way you did about his statement is pretty ignorant since he did not point directly to one race.
I work at a company that is affiliated with Medicaid services. I always love seeing the 3 generation span of Mom, daughter, and daughter’s child that would suck on the "system” for years....
I can tell you not everyone on Medicaid is just one race, it encompasses all and many abuse it. Many also need it desperately.
To generalize the way you did about his statement is pretty ignorant since he did not point directly to one race.
So you get to see the system work (or not work) first hand. I already said I am not against taxes, we need taxes and we need programs such as SS, medicaid, wellfare. There are people who need and deserve the help. A guy with a family that has worked at a Ford plant and busted his azz for 20 years and gets laid off deserves to live off the styem for a while. A single mom who busts her butt working 2 jobs and going to night school deserves to live off the system for a while, a guy that goes over to Iraq and get his legs blown off deserves to live off the system, but a 23 year old high school drop out single mom with 3 kids who is too lazy to get a job does not. The problem is the first 3 scenerios I named don't want to be on the system the last scenerio I described not only wants to stay on the system they want more and more from the system and from people like you and I and everyone else that puts in an honest days work. It's a shame and a sham, America is going to reap what they sewed with this election, like I said, I'm still gonna be driving $100,000 cars, going on vacations once a month, a buying designer clothes no matter what happens.
11-06-2008, 02:38 PM
#81
A business owner making $500k-$1mil a year as you eluded to already does pay a higher percentage than a teacher making $40k, approx 30% vs the teachers approx 23% tax rate. Here is a quick lesson in math. 30% (approx take rate on a guy making $500k) tax on a $500k income is $150K, right? That same teacher making $40K is paying about 23% or $9200.00, I think they are both paying there fair share, The guy making $500k is already paying over 15x more than the teacher and you people want him to pay more? In addition to that, the guy making the $500k is most likely investing a lot of his money, guess what, any interest or gains I make on the money I saved gets taxed yet again, sometimes at an even higher rate You people are nuts adn some of you need to take a better look at the big picture before speaking out on issues that you have little or no knowledge of. Emotion and passion does not equal facts and reality.
Fortunatly guys like me who are smart enough to make millions are also smart enough to create tax free safe havens and find creative and LEGAL ways to move our money to avoid some of these foolish "penelties for the wealthy" they call taxes. Don't get me wrong, I am not against all taxes, they are a necessary evil, I am not ignorant or blind to that fact, but I am already paying far more than my fair share and anyone that thinks I should be paying more is nuts.
Fortunatly guys like me who are smart enough to make millions are also smart enough to create tax free safe havens and find creative and LEGAL ways to move our money to avoid some of these foolish "penelties for the wealthy" they call taxes. Don't get me wrong, I am not against all taxes, they are a necessary evil, I am not ignorant or blind to that fact, but I am already paying far more than my fair share and anyone that thinks I should be paying more is nuts.
You own a fleet of trucks. If you feel this deserves the money you have then I would say you are nuts as there are people making much less but making just as big if not bigger contribution to society and that's the "whole point" again of balancing out the classes as it has gotten way out of hand.
No, I don't agree with how the welfare system is run by not being regulated much better or that people giving minimal to a job or society should be helped much but again I say too many people make too much money as well and there is nothing to justify it besides a luck and greed.
11-06-2008, 02:48 PM
#82
MBWorld Fanatic!
Jcart is not racist. The people that take handouts are white, black, yellow, red, and green.
I work at a company that is affiliated with Medicaid services. I always love seeing the 3 generation span of Mom, daughter, and daughter’s child that would suck on the "system” for years....
I can tell you not everyone on Medicaid is just one race, it encompasses all and many abuse it. Many also need it desperately.
To generalize the way you did about his statement is pretty ignorant since he did not point directly to one race.
I work at a company that is affiliated with Medicaid services. I always love seeing the 3 generation span of Mom, daughter, and daughter’s child that would suck on the "system” for years....
I can tell you not everyone on Medicaid is just one race, it encompasses all and many abuse it. Many also need it desperately.
To generalize the way you did about his statement is pretty ignorant since he did not point directly to one race.
Points to race directly.
However, I never said he was racist, I am hoping most here on this forum are not. I said it seemed to be based on the statement and that's a totally different meaning. I may have got the wrong context from his post, and said I was sorry if I came off the wrong way and dropped it.
You are correct, and I have stated that on several threads that a lot of people from all races do get handouts, welfare, whatever you may call it. However, in regards to welfare on most threads references to just minorities are mentioned. Glad you posted it's all the way around and that's the true picture.
11-06-2008, 02:49 PM
#83
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How are people like me nuts? You pay your fair share? What exactly do you do to deserve so much money that you can drive a $150k car and blow thousands on seeing women naked at a strip club on a regular basis? If you make the kind of money that you constantly brag about then my assumption is you charge too much for shipping in your business.
You own a fleet of trucks. If you feel this deserves the money you have then I would say you are nuts as there are people making much less but making just as big if not bigger contribution to society and that's the "whole point" again of balancing out the classes as it has gotten way out of hand.
No, I don't agree with how the welfare system is run by not being regulated much better or that people giving minimal to a job or society should be helped much but again I say too many people make too much money as well and there is nothing to justify it besides a luck and greed.
You own a fleet of trucks. If you feel this deserves the money you have then I would say you are nuts as there are people making much less but making just as big if not bigger contribution to society and that's the "whole point" again of balancing out the classes as it has gotten way out of hand.
No, I don't agree with how the welfare system is run by not being regulated much better or that people giving minimal to a job or society should be helped much but again I say too many people make too much money as well and there is nothing to justify it besides a luck and greed.
Yes, I own a fleet of trucks, lots of trucks about 60 trucks and 200 trailers, those are trucks I PAID FOR, There are also about 60 truck drivers I employ to drive those trucks and another 8 people (mechanics) I employ to work on said trucks and another 10 people (administrative) that work in my 3 different offices in 3 different cities. I am responsible for close to 80 jobs...so tell me do I deserve the money I make now? What have you done for our economy lately? YOU ARE AN IDIOT!
11-06-2008, 02:54 PM
#84
MBWorld Fanatic!
So you get to see the system work (or not work) first hand. I already said I am not against taxes, we need taxes and we need programs such as SS, medicaid, wellfare. There are people who need and deserve the help. A guy with a family that has worked at a Ford plant and busted his azz for 20 years and gets laid off deserves to live off the styem for a while. A single mom who busts her butt working 2 jobs and going to night school deserves to live off the system for a while, a guy that goes over to Iraq and get his legs blown off deserves to live off the system, but a 23 year old high school drop out single mom with 3 kids who is too lazy to get a job does not. The problem is the first 3 scenerios I named don't want to be on the system the last scenerio I described not only wants to stay on the system they want more and more from the system and from people like you and I and everyone else that puts in an honest days work. It's a shame and a sham, America is going to reap what they sewed with this election, like I said, I'm still gonna be driving $100,000 cars, going on vacations once a month, a buying designer clothes no matter what happens.
I am not one to say you don't deserve the lifestyle you have. You worked hard for it, you should be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor. You are correct, you should be able to spend your money as you see fit. I do, you do, and so should we all.
11-06-2008, 03:04 PM
#85
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I didn't generalize. This statement: "I surmise you have a lot of really tan relatives with no jobs that are living off the system!"
Points to race directly.
However, I never said he was racist, I am hoping most here on this forum are not. I said it seemed to be based on the statement and that's a totally different meaning. I may have got the wrong context from his post, and said I was sorry if I came off the wrong way and dropped it.
You are correct, and I have stated that on several threads that a lot of people from all races do get handouts, welfare, whatever you may call it. However, in regards to welfare on most threads references to just minorities are mentioned. Glad you posted it's all the way around and that's the true picture.
Points to race directly.
However, I never said he was racist, I am hoping most here on this forum are not. I said it seemed to be based on the statement and that's a totally different meaning. I may have got the wrong context from his post, and said I was sorry if I came off the wrong way and dropped it.
You are correct, and I have stated that on several threads that a lot of people from all races do get handouts, welfare, whatever you may call it. However, in regards to welfare on most threads references to just minorities are mentioned. Glad you posted it's all the way around and that's the true picture.
We service Florida and the majority of our members above Miami are white.
Granted in some of our other states it does favor blacks, but then when you go out west we see more native Americans. New York has a large Chinease population that we service for public assistance...
I can tell you from experience, all races abuse the hell out of it... Working here for the last 2 years has really changed my political opinions
11-06-2008, 03:42 PM
#86
Stop being racist… I am not white, but German-Russian American.
Quick statistics:
Right now our deficit and debt makes up only 40% of our GPD… When Roosevelt was in office and WW2 was over, it was 120% higher than our GDP.
Bush did not spend most of the money on infrastructure and technology; tangible items that we can see today and use in the future, but it is not as bad as people think. As it stands the deficit/debit is not going to eat us a live and is little concern in the grand scheme.
Quick statistics:
Right now our deficit and debt makes up only 40% of our GPD… When Roosevelt was in office and WW2 was over, it was 120% higher than our GDP.
Bush did not spend most of the money on infrastructure and technology; tangible items that we can see today and use in the future, but it is not as bad as people think. As it stands the deficit/debit is not going to eat us a live and is little concern in the grand scheme.
The Bush administration has borrow MORE THAN ALL PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS COMBINED, and it's putting a massive strain on the economy. There are so many ramifications to the size of our debt that I can't even begin to explain.
11-06-2008, 04:01 PM
#87
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Wow, I don't think I've ever met a black german-russian american. Maybe you're just translucent?
The Bush administration has borrow MORE THAN ALL PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS COMBINED, and it's putting a massive strain on the economy. There are so many ramifications to the size of our debt that I can't even begin to explain.
The Bush administration has borrow MORE THAN ALL PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS COMBINED, and it's putting a massive strain on the economy. There are so many ramifications to the size of our debt that I can't even begin to explain.
Again, I did say that Bush did not spend everything perfectly.
You can use caps to get your point across, but the statistics don’t lie so don’t try to dodge them.
Look at how America prospered even though we were 120% debt over our GDP back in the 40’s and 50’s.
Again, we are only at 40% debt to our GDP as we speak...
0-60% is pretty “normal”….
With Obama we will probably go to 50-55%.. Which is not a bad thing…. If he uses it for positive means like infrastructure and development, then we may get a return on investment in future generations.
You have to think about proportions… Things today cost a little more than before, but that doesn’t change the equation of debt divided by GDP.
Last edited by ApproachingZero; 11-06-2008 at 04:09 PM.
11-06-2008, 04:03 PM
#88
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E63,,,not any more,,,BMW X5 50i
I think that you stepped over the line on that comment..!!
11-06-2008, 05:12 PM
#89
MBWorld Fanatic!
Man......you are goofy.......having the nerve to tell someone that he makes too much money!! My wife is a teacher and works hard for her money. She graduated from college, and got her masters in education. Are you telling me that she does not "deserve" or need the money after have gone through all that??? I am in the trucking business also so I know how the trucking companies work and what they are up against. Give credit to where it due...jrcart is keeping his doors open and employing people, the ones you say deserve the money, like many other small business are. His company is one of many that deliver the products to you and your family...nothing happens in this country without a truck getting it somewhere!!
I think that you stepped over the line on that comment..!!
I think that you stepped over the line on that comment..!!
Meanwhile, they have no idea of the real deal of how you made the money. You worked for it.
One of the reasons our nut job Governor in Georgia has a low rating. He actually said that teachers make to much money, why did they need a 2% raise. It's an insult.
11-06-2008, 05:28 PM
#90
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E63,,,not any more,,,BMW X5 50i
I have to agree on that. As stated earlier, make all you can. There is no way I would feel guilty about making money as long as it is legal. This is one of those areas I do not understand with some people. They try to make you feel guilty, or that you should give some money, or be sympathetic with them because of the money you make.
Meanwhile, they have no idea of the real deal of how you made the money. You worked for it.
One of the reasons our nut job Governor in Georgia has a low rating. He actually said that teachers make to much money, why did they need a 2% raise. It's an insult.
Meanwhile, they have no idea of the real deal of how you made the money. You worked for it.
One of the reasons our nut job Governor in Georgia has a low rating. He actually said that teachers make to much money, why did they need a 2% raise. It's an insult.
11-06-2008, 05:40 PM
#91
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
How are people like me nuts? You pay your fair share? What exactly do you do to deserve so much money that you can drive a $150k car and blow thousands on seeing women naked at a strip club on a regular basis? If you make the kind of money that you constantly brag about then my assumption is you charge too much for shipping in your business.
You own a fleet of trucks. If you feel this deserves the money you have then I would say you are nuts as there are people making much less but making just as big if not bigger contribution to society and that's the "whole point" again of balancing out the classes as it has gotten way out of hand.
No, I don't agree with how the welfare system is run by not being regulated much better or that people giving minimal to a job or society should be helped much but again I say too many people make too much money as well and there is nothing to justify it besides a luck and greed.
You own a fleet of trucks. If you feel this deserves the money you have then I would say you are nuts as there are people making much less but making just as big if not bigger contribution to society and that's the "whole point" again of balancing out the classes as it has gotten way out of hand.
No, I don't agree with how the welfare system is run by not being regulated much better or that people giving minimal to a job or society should be helped much but again I say too many people make too much money as well and there is nothing to justify it besides a luck and greed.
According to your logic no one should be able or deserve to buy expensive cars like the ones here.
If you like communist system so much ,that's fine,move to North Korea,you would like it there.
11-06-2008, 06:17 PM
#92
For you to attribute someone else's earnings ability to either just pure luck or pure greed is without a doubt the most ignorant and laughable post I've ever seen on this website (and maybe anywhere, ever). Have you ever considered the possibility that there are many, many people who are smarter than you, better educated than you, more motivated than you, work harder and longer than you do, and have different aspirations than you do? And that as a result of those factors, they earn more, maybe much more, than you do? And that those factors have nothing to do with either luck or greed?
If you're unhappy with people who earn too much according to your judgment, perhaps you can share with us how much people should be allowed to earn before it displeases you?
11-06-2008, 06:30 PM
#93
Actually, what's an insult is that as a result of the pathetic teachers in Georgia, the state ranks 47th in the nation on SAT scores as of Aug. 2008. That's just embarrassing. Shame on the teachers.
11-06-2008, 07:41 PM
#95
Begin to explain??? Spending expands an economy. If you, I, and the government stops spending, the American economy stops working…… Did you know that? Do you think that the Dems are going to stop spending? Maybe you are one of those that think leaving Iraqi will solve all of our money problems.
Again, I did say that Bush did not spend everything perfectly.
You can use caps to get your point across, but the statistics don’t lie so don’t try to dodge them.
Look at how America prospered even though we were 120% debt over our GDP back in the 40’s and 50’s.
Again, we are only at 40% debt to our GDP as we speak...
0-60% is pretty “normal”….
With Obama we will probably go to 50-55%.. Which is not a bad thing…. If he uses it for positive means like infrastructure and development, then we may get a return on investment in future generations.
You have to think about proportions… Things today cost a little more than before, but that doesn’t change the equation of debt divided by GDP.
Again, I did say that Bush did not spend everything perfectly.
You can use caps to get your point across, but the statistics don’t lie so don’t try to dodge them.
Look at how America prospered even though we were 120% debt over our GDP back in the 40’s and 50’s.
Again, we are only at 40% debt to our GDP as we speak...
0-60% is pretty “normal”….
With Obama we will probably go to 50-55%.. Which is not a bad thing…. If he uses it for positive means like infrastructure and development, then we may get a return on investment in future generations.
You have to think about proportions… Things today cost a little more than before, but that doesn’t change the equation of debt divided by GDP.
I guess you feel it's okay to have half your income tied to high interest credit cards?
11-06-2008, 08:06 PM
#96
Guys why argue? Both Dems and Reps use us as pawns to better themselves....and both have done such a great job of making us believe them...its not the end of the world either way.........so lets get along
11-06-2008, 08:35 PM
#97
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Real Cars
I was at the rally - not because I'm some big Obama supporter - but because I was curious to see what it was like seeing the next President of the United States being elected from my home town - something that not everyone gets to see. It was indeed crazy, but I have to say - agree with his politics or not - at a fundamental level there was a feeling of positivity there that I have never seen. Not after a World Series, not after an NBA Championship, nothing. To see 250,000 people with that much hope and elation was really quite an experience, in my opinion.
As for the politics, I don't think the E55 forum is the place for it, but that's just my humble opinion
-m
As for the politics, I don't think the E55 forum is the place for it, but that's just my humble opinion
-m
11-06-2008, 08:37 PM
#98
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Do you even realize that all that money was spent domestically? Do you realize most of it was spent on social programs? It is almost the exact opposite of how the bush administration doubled the current deficit.
I guess you feel it's okay to have half your income tied to high interest credit cards?
I guess you feel it's okay to have half your income tied to high interest credit cards?
You were going off in a tantrum about the spending and deficit and blah, blah, and I tried to show you that Bush’s spending is not that bad compared to other times in Americas history..
Think about it; if the deficit was 120% over GDP back then, and in the Clinton years we had a surplus, that would make Bush kind of in the middle, right?... Hummmm
For your credit card statement…. The Fed is not a person…. You can’t even try to explain it that way without being completely wrong about American ideals.
This country was built on the idea of limited government and low taxes…. Low taxes = more money in my pocket, but a higher deficit. More money in the pocket means I spend more on our GDP which keep the deficit in control. Go ahead and raise the taxes…. Think it is bad now? The deficit will shrink and so to will the GDP… You will get your depression. Again, I don’t think our deficit should be going towards a war…
History has shown that we can control 120% deficit over GDP… I am not even worried at 40%...
11-06-2008, 09:04 PM
#99
Lol, did you read my post? I never said that don’t agree with how Bush spent the money.
You were going off in a tantrum about the spending and deficit and blah, blah, and I tried to show you that Bush’s spending is not that bad compared to other times in Americas history..
Think about it; if the deficit was 120% over GDP back then, and in the Clinton years we had a surplus, that would make Bush kind of in the middle, right?... Hummmm
For your credit card statement…. The Fed is not a person…. You can’t even try to explain it that way without being completely wrong about American ideals.
This country was built on the idea of limited government and low taxes…. Low taxes = more money in my pocket, but a higher deficit. More money in the pocket means I spend more on our GDP which keep the deficit in control. Go ahead and raise the taxes…. Think it is bad now? The deficit will shrink and so to will the GDP… You will get your depression. Again, I don’t think our deficit should be going towards a war…
History has shown that we can control 120% deficit over GDP… I am not even worried at 40%...
You were going off in a tantrum about the spending and deficit and blah, blah, and I tried to show you that Bush’s spending is not that bad compared to other times in Americas history..
Think about it; if the deficit was 120% over GDP back then, and in the Clinton years we had a surplus, that would make Bush kind of in the middle, right?... Hummmm
For your credit card statement…. The Fed is not a person…. You can’t even try to explain it that way without being completely wrong about American ideals.
This country was built on the idea of limited government and low taxes…. Low taxes = more money in my pocket, but a higher deficit. More money in the pocket means I spend more on our GDP which keep the deficit in control. Go ahead and raise the taxes…. Think it is bad now? The deficit will shrink and so to will the GDP… You will get your depression. Again, I don’t think our deficit should be going towards a war…
History has shown that we can control 120% deficit over GDP… I am not even worried at 40%...
11-06-2008, 09:18 PM
#100
MBWorld Fanatic!
Georgia is backward as hell on some things. Education is not the only one.
