Position of X-Pipe important?
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
1. Let's say my installer isn't as informed as you about exhaust engineering and dynamics. They install the x-pipe at a less than perfect location. Given that my car is N/A and not really making a whole lot of HP/TQ, can the placement of this x-pipe cause a severe hp/tq degradation? Conversely, can an exactly perfect location of the install, cause an increase in hp/tq on my N/A 5.0 engine?
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If I am not mistaken the best way to determine the location of the "X" is to run straight pipes all the way back, run the car and then take some infared temps of the straight pipes, the point at which it is the hottest is where you cut the pipe and fabricate your "X". This is the way several tuners/shops have done some of my cars that way and if I'mnot mistaken that is how Evosport does theirs too.
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If I am not mistaken the best way to determine the location of the "X" is to run straight pipes all the way back, run the car and then take some infared temps of the straight pipes, the point at which it is the hottest is where you cut the pipe and fabricate your "X". This is the way several tuners/shops have done some of my cars that way and if I'mnot mistaken that is how Evosport does theirs too.
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2004 E55
If I am not mistaken the best way to determine the location of the "X" is to run straight pipes all the way back, run the car and then take some infared temps of the straight pipes, the point at which it is the hottest is where you cut the pipe and fabricate your "X". This is the way several tuners/shops have done some of my cars that way and if I'mnot mistaken that is how Evosport does theirs too.
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2004 E55
Holy crap. Who would've known to do something like this? Good info. Let me pose this question to you:
1. Let's say my installer isn't as informed as you about exhaust engineering and dynamics. They install the x-pipe at a less than perfect location. Given that my car is N/A and not really making a whole lot of HP/TQ, can the placement of this x-pipe cause a severe hp/tq degradation? Conversely, can an exactly perfect location of the install, cause an increase in hp/tq on my N/A 5.0 engine?
1. Let's say my installer isn't as informed as you about exhaust engineering and dynamics. They install the x-pipe at a less than perfect location. Given that my car is N/A and not really making a whole lot of HP/TQ, can the placement of this x-pipe cause a severe hp/tq degradation? Conversely, can an exactly perfect location of the install, cause an increase in hp/tq on my N/A 5.0 engine?
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ANyone who has tuned any V-8 knows and understands that X/H pipes are a good thing and another tuning tool.
I know that and don't disagree. Controversy has always been how much of a gain and what design, etc.
The bigger question is what is a non aspriated motor? Electric?
I know that and don't disagree. Controversy has always been how much of a gain and what design, etc.
The bigger question is what is a non aspriated motor? Electric?
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2004 E55
It has to do with resonance and limiting it in the exhaust. The entire purpose of an exhaust system in a car is to scavenge exhaust away from the combustion chamber, i.e. helping the engine expel its exhaust fumes as efficiently as possible. Resonance in an exhaust system prohibits maximum efficiency, and thats why placing x/h pipes at the optimum spots in an exhaust system helps to quell exhaust resonance.
I could not find a good reference relating to automotive exhaust, but this article touches on some issues that can be related to automotive exhaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance
I could not find a good reference relating to automotive exhaust, but this article touches on some issues that can be related to automotive exhaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance
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You did say the same thing, only one problem, your method might be easier, but far less scientific and exact. The "old school" method of hitting the pipe with some flat black Krylon works, but it does not account for things such as how thick the paint is being applied, if you have even slightly thinner coverege in an area it will begin to burn off before an area with thicker/heavier coverage which may or may not be the "hottest" spot. The infared laser thermo gauge is the correct way and only way to do it on a $50k-$150k AMG. Most good tunners/shops have them in there shop because they are used for many many things, I could go into it but don't want to go to off topic. Lets just put it this way, if your shop doing your X-pipe does not have one, you probably don't want them touching ANYTHING on your car.
Last edited by jrcart; Jan 4, 2009 at 12:11 PM.
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From: Raleigh NC
2007 E63, 2006 C55
RE: X-Pipe
If it were me, I would put the X-Pipe where the OEM resonator was, if for no other reason than the engineers used that location to achieve the same purpose. Moving it up or back may or may not materially matter, but why chance it?
For what it's worth, a 13.49 from an E500 ain't bad.
For what it's worth, a 13.49 from an E500 ain't bad.
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2004 E55
You did say the same thing, only one problem, your method might be easier, but far less scientific and exact. The "old school" method of hitting the pipe with some flat black Krylon works, but it does not account for things such as how thick the paint is being applied, if you have even slightly thinner coverege in an area it will begin to burn off before an area with thicker/heavier coverage which may or may not be the "hottest" spot. The infared laser thermo gauge is the correct way and only way to do it on a $50k-$150k AMG. Most good tunners/shops have them in there shop because they are used for many many things, I could go into it but don't want to go to off topic. Lets just put it this way, if your shop doing your X-pipe does not have one, you probably don't want them touching ANYTHING on your car.
My shop has IR probes and surface temp probes and we still use paint, Why? Because it marks the spot.
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2004 E55
If it were me, I would put the X-Pipe where the OEM resonator was, if for no other reason than the engineers used that location to achieve the same purpose. Moving it up or back may or may not materially matter, but why chance it?
For what it's worth, a 13.49 from an E500 ain't bad.
For what it's worth, a 13.49 from an E500 ain't bad.
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
If it were me, I would put the X-Pipe where the OEM resonator was, if for no other reason than the engineers used that location to achieve the same purpose. Moving it up or back may or may not materially matter, but why chance it?
For what it's worth, a 13.49 from an E500 ain't bad.
For what it's worth, a 13.49 from an E500 ain't bad.
It is the "World's quickest E500"
Joking aside...I was more impressed with my 2.0 60' on 19" street tires.
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No *****waiving here, just trying to help out and put some useful information out there. You keep using spray paint and I will have my tuners use the more current, exact and high tech method.
I bet lots of NASCAR, ALMS and DTM teams sit there with a rattle can while the car is on a lift and take the time to spray and wait to dry only to have far less than exact temps/results when they can use a $200.00 infared gun that will tell the the exact surface temp on any portion of the pipe down to the sixe of a pin head.
....you are an idiot if you think your method is better, or even equal!!!!!!!!
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2004 E55
"IT'S BEEN DONE FOR 50+ YEARS"....my point exactly!
No *****waiving here, just trying to help out and put some useful information out there. You keep using spray paint and I will have my tuners use the more current, exact and high tech method.
I bet lots of NASCAR, ALMS and DTM teams sit there with a rattle can while the car is on a lift and take the time to spray and wait to dry only to have far less than exact temps/results when they can use a $200.00 infared gun that will tell the the exact surface temp on any portion of the pipe down to the sixe of a pin head.
....you are an idiot if you think your method is better, or even equal!!!!!!!!
No *****waiving here, just trying to help out and put some useful information out there. You keep using spray paint and I will have my tuners use the more current, exact and high tech method.
I bet lots of NASCAR, ALMS and DTM teams sit there with a rattle can while the car is on a lift and take the time to spray and wait to dry only to have far less than exact temps/results when they can use a $200.00 infared gun that will tell the the exact surface temp on any portion of the pipe down to the sixe of a pin head.
....you are an idiot if you think your method is better, or even equal!!!!!!!!
and writing a check is not building a car
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2004 E55
Just because you bought a fast car doesn't mean that you know how to build it.
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I randomly touch 10 spots along the exhaust with the tips of each finger. The finger that has the largest blister tells me where the x-pipe should go. Unfortunately if you have multiple cars you are installing an x-pipe on you may want the help of your wife, a friend, etc. Why waste money on a can of paint or an infrared gun 
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Mercedes,Porsche etc
I randomly touch 10 spots along the exhaust with the tips of each finger. The finger that has the largest blister tells me where the x-pipe should go. Unfortunately if you have multiple cars you are installing an x-pipe on you may want the help of your wife, a friend, etc. Why waste money on a can of paint or an infrared gun
Actually the X-pipe should go MID PIPE, MID car where the resonators are, mercedes did that for a reason,, and the resonators have a sort of cross over x pipe internally, anyway..
the whole purpose is to even out the flow, and pressure,, and midway is the best place to do that..
