Headers - Kleemann vs. VRP - which one to get?
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From: Dago, CA
2003 cl55 (sold)
Headers - Kleemann vs. VRP - which one to get?
Buying headers in about a week or so. I have a 2003 CL55 Powerchip, VRP pulley, Magnaflows, AFE filters, Rear Cat Delete..... can't afford VRP long tubes, that would be choice #1.... So, VRP shorties or Kleemann headers. I know with Kleemann, I would have to remove the primary cats (no cats.... ouch that's gonna be loud) and I'll either deal with it but I'll eventually have to put the rear cats back on. Whatever. From a pure performance/hp perspective, if you were gonna buy one or the other, which would you get? Any dyno sheets other than the ones from the vendors? Also, how much would an install on the Kleemann headers cost? I'm assuming I would need a reflash of the powerchip as well right? But even without it I should see some decent gains? Any input is appreciated.
Last edited by jicl55; Jan 7, 2009 at 05:00 AM.
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2015 E63S, 2018 E63S
Buying headers in about a week or so. I have a 2003 CL55 Powerchip, VRP pulley, Magnaflows, AFE filters, Rear Cat Delete..... can't afford VRP long tubes, that would be choice #1.... So, VRP shorties or Kleemann headers. I know with Kleemann, I would have to remove the primary cats (no cats.... ouch that's gonna be loud) and I'll either deal with it but I'll eventually have to put the rear cats back on. Whatever. From a pure performance/hp perspective, if you were gonna buy one or the other, which would you get? Any dyno sheets other than the ones from the vendors? Also, how much would an install on the Kleemann headers cost? I'm assuming I would need a reflash of the powerchip as well right? But even without it I should see some decent gains? Any input is appreciated.
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ML550
Go with Evosports. VRPs aren't really headers at all, just somewhat enlarged logroll manifolds that offer gains only in the high RPM range. Kleemans are better headers than the VRPs, but you have hack up your very expensive stock catalyst system to install them. For me, the Evos seemed like the best compromise. Of course, YMMV.
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From: Wilmington, NC
2012 C63 Black Series, 2003 Hummer H1 KSC2, 2003 Hummer H1 HMCO, 1997 Hummer H1 HMC4, 1969 Jaguar E
Im kinda partial to KLEEMANN 
Talk to Cory, find out were there is a Kleemann dealer in you area, they can usually install you headers and REPLACE YOUR CATS and have you car back to you the same day.
You might want to ask Cory about updating you ECU also
Talk to Cory, find out were there is a Kleemann dealer in you area, they can usually install you headers and REPLACE YOUR CATS and have you car back to you the same day.
You might want to ask Cory about updating you ECU also
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'03 SL55
I'd actually suggest waiting a bit rather than buying right now.
Before the discussion went off into the weeds, there was some useful information being exchanged in this thread https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...what-look.html about developing long tubes that would replace the stock exhaust manifold and primary cats but would then bolt up to the stock exhaust.
If something along those lines happens, that might be the biggest bang-for-the-buck.
Back to your original question, I have the Evosport shorties and they've performed well for me. I paid over $3,000 for them but it looks like prices have dropped a bit and are now $2,490 for an E55.
I've also had good luck with VRP gear and their shorty setup costs quite a bit less at $1,499. Vadim at VRP says their shorties will perform as well as Evopsorts. Evosport disagrees. Who knows for certain?
Before the discussion went off into the weeds, there was some useful information being exchanged in this thread https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...what-look.html about developing long tubes that would replace the stock exhaust manifold and primary cats but would then bolt up to the stock exhaust.
If something along those lines happens, that might be the biggest bang-for-the-buck.
Back to your original question, I have the Evosport shorties and they've performed well for me. I paid over $3,000 for them but it looks like prices have dropped a bit and are now $2,490 for an E55.
I've also had good luck with VRP gear and their shorty setup costs quite a bit less at $1,499. Vadim at VRP says their shorties will perform as well as Evopsorts. Evosport disagrees. Who knows for certain?
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2004 E55
Buying headers in about a week or so. I have a 2003 CL55 Powerchip, VRP pulley, Magnaflows, AFE filters, Rear Cat Delete..... can't afford VRP long tubes, that would be choice #1.... So, VRP shorties or Kleemann headers. I know with Kleemann, I would have to remove the primary cats (no cats.... ouch that's gonna be loud) and I'll either deal with it but I'll eventually have to put the rear cats back on. Whatever. From a pure performance/hp perspective, if you were gonna buy one or the other, which would you get? Any dyno sheets other than the ones from the vendors? Also, how much would an install on the Kleemann headers cost? I'm assuming I would need a reflash of the powerchip as well right? But even without it I should see some decent gains? Any input is appreciated.
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From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
This discussion about headers has been going for a long time.
Here is a link to earlier thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...s-m113-v8.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...m-m113-v8.html
In my experience supercharged cars are less sensitive to exhaust runner length than normally aspirated cars. With supercharger creating boost on the intake side, exhaust needs to be able to get the gases out as fast as possible.
Our Hiflow Exhaust Manifolds are the only shorties that have 1.75'' primaries, have a big 2.5'' collector that adds the volume that a typicall un-equal lentgh shorty can not create. Our collector flange is 2'' in diamater, again bigger than any other shorty on the market.
Prototype pictures:
Production Picture:
In the end the biggest judge is performance, many of board members went low to mid 11s with our headers on their cars, as part of our VR600 power packages.
Here is a link to earlier thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...s-m113-v8.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...m-m113-v8.html
In my experience supercharged cars are less sensitive to exhaust runner length than normally aspirated cars. With supercharger creating boost on the intake side, exhaust needs to be able to get the gases out as fast as possible.
Our Hiflow Exhaust Manifolds are the only shorties that have 1.75'' primaries, have a big 2.5'' collector that adds the volume that a typicall un-equal lentgh shorty can not create. Our collector flange is 2'' in diamater, again bigger than any other shorty on the market.
Prototype pictures:
Production Picture:
In the end the biggest judge is performance, many of board members went low to mid 11s with our headers on their cars, as part of our VR600 power packages.
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ML550
It seems like any of the shorties on the market offer better flow characteristics than the factory manifolds, but I would tend to think that so long as any of the shorties are bolted to the factory catalyst system, they all suffer for it performance-wise.
I wonder how much genuine interest there would be in an aftermarket front exhaust section set-up consisting of two single mandrel-bent pipes, each fitted with a high-flow metallic cat and before and after O2 bungs, that are direct bolt-in replacements for the stock front catalyst section of the exhaust system? Something like these would be a perfect complement to any of the various shorties header systems out there.
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From: SoCal
SL55 AMG
I would go with VRP shorties/hem's, cant beat the price and gives you similar performance gains as the other more expensive shorties.
If you did decide to go with Evosport shorties, then you might as well wait a little longer to get VRP long tubes. The price diffrence is not that big when comparing the return you will be getting in horsepowere gains.
FYI, the custom Long Tube Header Vadim made for my car bots right up to my stock muffler. If at any time should I want to bolt up my stock manifold, cats, etc to pass smog will be an easy task.
If you did decide to go with Evosport shorties, then you might as well wait a little longer to get VRP long tubes. The price diffrence is not that big when comparing the return you will be getting in horsepowere gains.
FYI, the custom Long Tube Header Vadim made for my car bots right up to my stock muffler. If at any time should I want to bolt up my stock manifold, cats, etc to pass smog will be an easy task.
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I think for the price and ease of installation..
VRP HEM
stage 1 cars don't need any more torque down low...
we need hp on top..
I'm saving up to buy a set soon and then have LET send me an updated ECU file.
probably mid of the year..
VRP HEM
stage 1 cars don't need any more torque down low...
we need hp on top..
I'm saving up to buy a set soon and then have LET send me an updated ECU file.
probably mid of the year..
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From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
This is where I get confused. Even if the header has a larger primaries and collector flange, doesn't it remain true that if you are bolting these up to the stock catalysts, you immediately have encountered a flow restriction since there is no increase in the size of the factory catalyst pipes? In other words, I don't understand the advantage of having a larger collector flange when it is immediately constricted back down to factory exhaust pipe size at the flange connections.
It seems like any of the shorties on the market offer better flow characteristics than the factory manifolds, but I would tend to think that so long as any of the shorties are bolted to the factory catalyst system, they all suffer for it performance-wise.
I wonder how much genuine interest there would be in an aftermarket front exhaust section set-up consisting of two single mandrel-bent pipes, each fitted with a high-flow metallic cat and before and after O2 bungs, that are direct bolt-in replacements for the stock front catalyst section of the exhaust system? Something like these would be a perfect complement to any of the various shorties header systems out there.
It seems like any of the shorties on the market offer better flow characteristics than the factory manifolds, but I would tend to think that so long as any of the shorties are bolted to the factory catalyst system, they all suffer for it performance-wise.
I wonder how much genuine interest there would be in an aftermarket front exhaust section set-up consisting of two single mandrel-bent pipes, each fitted with a high-flow metallic cat and before and after O2 bungs, that are direct bolt-in replacements for the stock front catalyst section of the exhaust system? Something like these would be a perfect complement to any of the various shorties header systems out there.
I am working on H/X-pipe that will replace stock cats.
I will post more info next week.
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08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
yes I noticed a difference in power as well, I just did an 11.86 @ Sac with only a pulley, stock Cont's and 20's in the front.
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2015 E63S, 2018 E63S
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2006 E55 AMG
I also recommend VRP shorties. IMO I feel for the price and performance they would be the best choice, unless you wait to get long tube headers like many have recommended. I have VRP's VR600 package and my car is making some good power. My best trap to date in the 1/4 mile is 123.95 mph. I'm sure Evosport also makes a awesome product but at a higher price tag. Vadim is a class act and has great customer service. There has been several times I needed to talk to Vadim on the weekends and he has never failed to return my calls...that kind of service is hard to come by these days.
