CLK DTM for sale on ebay
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1988 535i 5 speed
Wonder what the conditions were, more than half the time it's soaked at the ring. I have to say the interior on the DTM is pretty cool, that tiny little shift lever is kinda cool. I can't believe it would even be slower than a 996 GT3, but that's where your disclaimer comes in. Side note, I'm always amazed by how fast a Murcie is around a track, even at almost 4100 lbs and its huge size. Even looks like it edged out a 599! 
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W211 E55
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I am not sure it was the same driver...but these were done by the same magazine. You have to remember that the Nürburgring times are somewhat subjective based on at which point the clock starts and stops as the entire track is rarely open to finish the entire lap.
SportAuto, Nürburgring (Nordschleife):
SportAuto, Nürburgring (Nordschleife):
https://mbworld.org/forums/clk63-bla...ight=autosport
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Thats quite nice.... but you are quite wrong.
There are about 5-10 us street legal DTM's in the country. They were converted and meet use standards with normal registrations. That is why the car costs 500k. Its not a cheap process but it has been done.
There are about 5-10 us street legal DTM's in the country. They were converted and meet use standards with normal registrations. That is why the car costs 500k. Its not a cheap process but it has been done.
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Tom - these Autosport times have been discussed before and are dubious at best:
https://mbworld.org/forums/clk63-bla...ight=autosport
https://mbworld.org/forums/clk63-bla...ight=autosport
It cuts both ways....you can't say the CLK63 BS is 9 seconds faster (driven by a professional driver) than the CLK DTM using a time attained by SportAuto... and then say the SportAuto times are "dubious at best". It kind of defeats your own argument. SportAuto tested the CLK63 BS at 8:05 but was driven to a 7:45. The CLK DTM may not see a 20 second improvement in the hands of a professional driver...but it may see enough to eclipse the CLK63 BS time.
Jim Brady:
I am not sure what the AMG Trophy Cup is all about. Are these professional driver's competing or highly skilled amateurs? The reason I ask is that it would seem to me that the CLK DTM is a far less forgiving car. As such, the drivers at the event would have to dial it back a little to keep it under control...so in the turns they might be at 8.5/10's whereas a CLK63 BS may be driven 9.5/10's by a driver of the same skill level. Maybe given a top professional driver/AMG chassis development driver able to drive both cars at 10/10's it might see a different result then you witnessed at the track. It is all speculation...but there is something to be said for the CLK63 BS's ability to be driven harder/faster in everyday situations by an owner...rather than a professional.
Tom
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1988 535i 5 speed
Luke:
It cuts both ways....you can't say the CLK63 BS is 9 seconds faster (driven by a professional driver) than the CLK DTM using a time attained by SportAuto... and then say the SportAuto times are "dubious at best". It kind of defeats your own argument. SportAuto tested the CLK63 BS at 8:05 but was driven to a 7:45. The CLK DTM may not see a 20 second improvement in the hands of a professional driver...but it may see enough to eclipse the CLK63 BS time.
Jim Brady:
I am not sure what the AMG Trophy Cup is all about. Are these professional driver's competing or highly skilled amateurs? The reason I ask is that it would seem to me that the CLK DTM is a far less forgiving car. As such, the drivers at the event would have to dial it back a little to keep it under control...so in the turns they might be at 8.5/10's whereas a CLK63 BS may be driven 9.5/10's by a driver of the same skill level. Maybe given a top professional driver/AMG chassis development driver able to drive both cars at 10/10's it might see a different result then you witnessed at the track. It is all speculation...but there is something to be said for the CLK63 BS's ability to be driven harder/faster in everyday situations by an owner...rather than a professional.
Tom
It cuts both ways....you can't say the CLK63 BS is 9 seconds faster (driven by a professional driver) than the CLK DTM using a time attained by SportAuto... and then say the SportAuto times are "dubious at best". It kind of defeats your own argument. SportAuto tested the CLK63 BS at 8:05 but was driven to a 7:45. The CLK DTM may not see a 20 second improvement in the hands of a professional driver...but it may see enough to eclipse the CLK63 BS time.
Jim Brady:
I am not sure what the AMG Trophy Cup is all about. Are these professional driver's competing or highly skilled amateurs? The reason I ask is that it would seem to me that the CLK DTM is a far less forgiving car. As such, the drivers at the event would have to dial it back a little to keep it under control...so in the turns they might be at 8.5/10's whereas a CLK63 BS may be driven 9.5/10's by a driver of the same skill level. Maybe given a top professional driver/AMG chassis development driver able to drive both cars at 10/10's it might see a different result then you witnessed at the track. It is all speculation...but there is something to be said for the CLK63 BS's ability to be driven harder/faster in everyday situations by an owner...rather than a professional.
Tom
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Luke:
It cuts both ways....you can't say the CLK63 BS is 9 seconds faster (driven by a professional driver) than the CLK DTM using a time attained by SportAuto... and then say the SportAuto times are "dubious at best". It kind of defeats your own argument. SportAuto tested the CLK63 BS at 8:05 but was driven to a 7:45. The CLK DTM may not see a 20 second improvement in the hands of a professional driver...but it may see enough to eclipse the CLK63 BS time.
Jim Brady:
I am not sure what the AMG Trophy Cup is all about. Are these professional driver's competing or highly skilled amateurs? The reason I ask is that it would seem to me that the CLK DTM is a far less forgiving car. As such, the drivers at the event would have to dial it back a little to keep it under control...so in the turns they might be at 8.5/10's whereas a CLK63 BS may be driven 9.5/10's by a driver of the same skill level. Maybe given a top professional driver/AMG chassis development driver able to drive both cars at 10/10's it might see a different result then you witnessed at the track. It is all speculation...but there is something to be said for the CLK63 BS's ability to be driven harder/faster in everyday situations by an owner...rather than a professional.
Tom
It cuts both ways....you can't say the CLK63 BS is 9 seconds faster (driven by a professional driver) than the CLK DTM using a time attained by SportAuto... and then say the SportAuto times are "dubious at best". It kind of defeats your own argument. SportAuto tested the CLK63 BS at 8:05 but was driven to a 7:45. The CLK DTM may not see a 20 second improvement in the hands of a professional driver...but it may see enough to eclipse the CLK63 BS time.
Jim Brady:
I am not sure what the AMG Trophy Cup is all about. Are these professional driver's competing or highly skilled amateurs? The reason I ask is that it would seem to me that the CLK DTM is a far less forgiving car. As such, the drivers at the event would have to dial it back a little to keep it under control...so in the turns they might be at 8.5/10's whereas a CLK63 BS may be driven 9.5/10's by a driver of the same skill level. Maybe given a top professional driver/AMG chassis development driver able to drive both cars at 10/10's it might see a different result then you witnessed at the track. It is all speculation...but there is something to be said for the CLK63 BS's ability to be driven harder/faster in everyday situations by an owner...rather than a professional.
Tom
Sadly i could nto find the info I had on the DTM
so going off memory and asking
Differences are
intercooler, heat exchanger, throttel body, ecu, headers, exhust, brakes, rims, dry, or wet sump one or the other can not remmeber
Last edited by Zod; Mar 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM.
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Mercedes,Porsche etc
pretty sure those lap times are a few years old,,
I understand the NISSAN GTR-V destroyed the record recently at under 7:30 and holds the record?
read that is ROAD and TRACK and on SPEED TV when they recently
did a special on the "RING"
I understand the NISSAN GTR-V destroyed the record recently at under 7:30 and holds the record?
read that is ROAD and TRACK and on SPEED TV when they recently
did a special on the "RING"
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Tom
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SL600
Which is very strange for an engineer and test driver for Porsche and GM...
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Luke:
Jim Brady:
I am not sure what the AMG Trophy Cup is all about. Are these professional driver's competing or highly skilled amateurs? The reason I ask is that it would seem to me that the CLK DTM is a far less forgiving car. As such, the drivers at the event would have to dial it back a little to keep it under control...so in the turns they might be at 8.5/10's whereas a CLK63 BS may be driven 9.5/10's by a driver of the same skill level. Maybe given a top professional driver/AMG chassis development driver able to drive both cars at 10/10's it might see a different result then you witnessed at the track. It is all speculation...but there is something to be said for the CLK63 BS's ability to be driven harder/faster in everyday situations by an owner...rather than a professional.
Tom
Jim Brady:
I am not sure what the AMG Trophy Cup is all about. Are these professional driver's competing or highly skilled amateurs? The reason I ask is that it would seem to me that the CLK DTM is a far less forgiving car. As such, the drivers at the event would have to dial it back a little to keep it under control...so in the turns they might be at 8.5/10's whereas a CLK63 BS may be driven 9.5/10's by a driver of the same skill level. Maybe given a top professional driver/AMG chassis development driver able to drive both cars at 10/10's it might see a different result then you witnessed at the track. It is all speculation...but there is something to be said for the CLK63 BS's ability to be driven harder/faster in everyday situations by an owner...rather than a professional.
Tom
AMG put 100K kilometer on the suspension development of the BS on the Nurburgring. So it's highly likley the car will perform better with the factory test drivers than guys that write magazine articles for SportAuto.
This is my last nice response.
Jimmy
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The pro's were faster in the BS. The skilled amatures were faster in the BS.
AMG put 100K kilometer on the suspension development of the BS on the Nurburgring. So it's highly likley the car will perform better with the factory test drivers than guys that write magazine articles for SportAuto.
This is my last nice response.
Jimmy
AMG put 100K kilometer on the suspension development of the BS on the Nurburgring. So it's highly likley the car will perform better with the factory test drivers than guys that write magazine articles for SportAuto.
This is my last nice response.
Jimmy
I agree 100% that the BS will run faster with an AMG chassis development driver...which is about the same competency of the 7:45 time. My point is that you can't say in the same breath that the CLK DTM is only capable of a 7:54 as timed by SportAuto. Isn't it likely with the same caliber of driver as the BS (7:45 time) will extract a lower time...possibly lower than the CLK BS?
I have driven the Ring hundreds of times with sub-8:00 times (on xbox and xbox 360)...so I am an official expert in this area...(yes, I am being sarcastic..)
Tom
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
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True, but those guys have the same amount of actual seat time there as you have virtual
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Give me your not so nice response...I can take it...
I agree 100% that the BS will run faster with an AMG chassis development driver...which is about the same competency of the 7:45 time. My point is that you can't say in the same breath that the CLK DTM is only capable of a 7:54 as timed by SportAuto. Isn't it likely with the same caliber of driver as the BS (7:45 time) will extract a lower time...possibly lower than the CLK BS?
I have driven the Ring hundreds of times with sub-8:00 times (on xbox and xbox 360)...so I am an official expert in this area...(yes, I am being sarcastic..)
Tom
I agree 100% that the BS will run faster with an AMG chassis development driver...which is about the same competency of the 7:45 time. My point is that you can't say in the same breath that the CLK DTM is only capable of a 7:54 as timed by SportAuto. Isn't it likely with the same caliber of driver as the BS (7:45 time) will extract a lower time...possibly lower than the CLK BS?
I have driven the Ring hundreds of times with sub-8:00 times (on xbox and xbox 360)...so I am an official expert in this area...(yes, I am being sarcastic..)
Tom
The DTM could be faster than the AutoSport test with a factory test driver and I believe it would.
However, I believe you have fallen into the internet racing trap of trying to compare different times with different conditions and different drivers. An obvious result of xbox overdose. You see in xbox you never crap your pants if you run a sub 8 minutes at the Ring like you would in real life.
The BS can just flat put the power down sooner than the DTM which results in getting out of corners faster dispite the torque advantage of the DTM. It's not a question of power, but chassis development. AMG had two years of development since the DTM was released.
Jimmy
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Tommy,
The DTM could be faster than the AutoSport test with a factory test driver and I believe it would.
However, I believe you have fallen into the internet racing trap of trying to compare different times with different conditions and different drivers. An obvious result of xbox overdose. You see in xbox you never crap your pants if you run a sub 8 minutes at the Ring like you would in real life.
The BS can just flat put the power down sooner than the DTM which results in getting out of corners faster dispite the torque advantage of the DTM. It's not a question of power, but chassis development. AMG had two years of development since the DTM was released.
Jimmy
The DTM could be faster than the AutoSport test with a factory test driver and I believe it would.
However, I believe you have fallen into the internet racing trap of trying to compare different times with different conditions and different drivers. An obvious result of xbox overdose. You see in xbox you never crap your pants if you run a sub 8 minutes at the Ring like you would in real life.
The BS can just flat put the power down sooner than the DTM which results in getting out of corners faster dispite the torque advantage of the DTM. It's not a question of power, but chassis development. AMG had two years of development since the DTM was released.
Jimmy
if so impressions compared to clk blk?
am not doubting that the blk has better suspension here by the way, but just wondering since you have formed your own personal opinion if you have actually driven he DTM
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Tommy,
The DTM could be faster than the AutoSport test with a factory test driver and I believe it would.
However, I believe you have fallen into the internet racing trap of trying to compare different times with different conditions and different drivers. An obvious result of xbox overdose. You see in xbox you never crap your pants if you run a sub 8 minutes at the Ring like you would in real life.
The BS can just flat put the power down sooner than the DTM which results in getting out of corners faster dispite the torque advantage of the DTM. It's not a question of power, but chassis development. AMG had two years of development since the DTM was released.
Jimmy
The DTM could be faster than the AutoSport test with a factory test driver and I believe it would.
However, I believe you have fallen into the internet racing trap of trying to compare different times with different conditions and different drivers. An obvious result of xbox overdose. You see in xbox you never crap your pants if you run a sub 8 minutes at the Ring like you would in real life.
The BS can just flat put the power down sooner than the DTM which results in getting out of corners faster dispite the torque advantage of the DTM. It's not a question of power, but chassis development. AMG had two years of development since the DTM was released.
Jimmy
Jimmy:
You wouldn't make that comment if you saw my underwear after an intense session of Forza Motorsport or Project Gotham Racing!!!
Tom
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1988 535i 5 speed
On Forza, I've got almost every track nailed, but I must've put a couple hundred laps on the 'Ring and I still haven't cracked 8 minutes. It really is the scariest thing in the world, almost every other turn is off-camber and blind. To do that in real life would be the biggest rush ever.
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The DTM is very fast, and with suspension changes like many owners have done, it much quicker than in the stock configuation. But then I'm comparing a modified to a stock car.
The car length I gain out of one or two corners if very difficult to overcome with just 40 more hp on the straight. You need a very long straight like at Spa where I believe the DTM would have passed me. It would have been a great fight. Then, some of the DTM's were pushing more than their conservative 540 hp, some over 600!
Jimmy
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Have not driven DTM at speed on a track, but have raced head to head at the Sachenring. Unless you run head to head how would one know? Easy, when I drive up their *** coming out of the corners I have the advantage. When I'm in front I put several cars out of the corners I know my car has better cornering speed. You might say it's the driver but you can tell after a few sessions the abilites of the drivers. The higher torque of the DTM is harder to modulate out of the corners. BS just flat hooks and its gone.
The DTM is very fast, and with suspension changes like many owners have done, it much quicker than in the stock configuation. But then I'm comparing a modified to a stock car.
The car length I gain out of one or two corners if very difficult to overcome with just 40 more hp on the straight. You need a very long straight like at Spa where I believe the DTM would have passed me. It would have been a great fight. Then, some of the DTM's were pushing more than their conservative 540 hp, some over 600!
Jimmy
The DTM is very fast, and with suspension changes like many owners have done, it much quicker than in the stock configuation. But then I'm comparing a modified to a stock car.
The car length I gain out of one or two corners if very difficult to overcome with just 40 more hp on the straight. You need a very long straight like at Spa where I believe the DTM would have passed me. It would have been a great fight. Then, some of the DTM's were pushing more than their conservative 540 hp, some over 600!
Jimmy
Apprently the CLK dtm is as fast, or faster then an SLR in a straight...if this is true it would rape any stock 55 or 63 & possibly maybe even 65, but i have not confirmed this nor have proof as they are so hard to come by
The advertised HP may be a gimic like on the E/CLS
We have a convertible CLK DTM here, but I can not really ask the person owning it to do do a few races to compare as they are rather high up in the ranks
maybe you can find out next time when you are out there!
as it is somthing interesting to find out if it is true or not
Thanks again
