GGPE500

HyperPower hosted an open house and dynoed Nissan GTRs, E55 AMGs, an EVO X. Follow the link to see the graph of the E55 AMG.

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index....st=20&start=20

This is the same dyno used in the MotorTrend Nissan GTR dyno video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY5WVmAgy5g

GGPE500

99blkmax

These are crank #s?

GGPE500

Yes, these are numbers at the crank.

E55Pilot

What did they end up with for driveline loss?

chiromikey

does anyone else find it ironic that the dyno measured the stock e55 to EXACTLY what mb's specs are (which would mean this is a weak e55).

E55Pilot

That's why I asked what the correction factor used was.

Seems they took the dyno run and then skewed it to read the published numbers

GGPE500

The Wheel Drag, by looking at the graph posted, is approximately 50+hp.

The ambient correction is at 0% for the stock E55. There were no dyno correction factor input for this dyno. The only operator inputs were temp, pressure, and humidity. The ambient correction percentage always show on the graph.

I want to point out a fallacy when using "estimated" percentage loss.

Let take a forced induction car, we would strap a car to dyno and do a base line run at normal boost and another run at double the boost pressure. Both runs are made in the same gear, fourth if prefered. Base line run yield 300hp and high boost run yield 500hp. If one were to use "estimated" percentage loss of 20% then a base run would have 60hp loss whilst the high boost run would have 100hp loss? Same gear, same wheel, same tires, but different loss?

Let's look at this from another angle. The base run yield peak 300hp at 5000 rpm and 200hp at 7000rpm. Using the 20% "estimated" percentage loss would yield 60hp loss at 5000rpm and 40hp loss at 7000 rpm? We know the higher speed the higher the friction and loss would be. But this estimate method would prove otherwise.

This dyno "measure" wheel drag, no guessing, no estimating.

Factory rated figures is witnessed test. I have taken officials, in my previous job, to do a witness test on emission and learn that the power test is also a witnessed test.

Please have a look at the MotorTrend Video for further information.

Marcus Frost

GGPE,

Most of us are aware that any kind of chassis dyno will never give EXACT hp #s, however, it is well proven here that E55s and the 496hp rated CL/S/SL55 make the same RWHP on a dyno, not to mention the E55 tends to run slightly higher trap speeds than almost any of the other 55 cars.

Estimating drivetrain loss is far from an exact science, however the notion that as power increases, so does loss is true - although it is not a 1:1 ratio as the percentage drivetrain loss would calculate out. It's possible to get a good idea of what the loss is, however without pulling the engine out and putting it on an engine dyno, you are still guessing.

Just my $.02

-m

Thericker

The E55/S55/SL55/CL55 kompressor models ALL put down on average 400-420 rwhp. Kinda hard to understand what you're trying to say (ESL?) though you're totally lost as far as Mercedes E55 rwhp or drive train losses IE Transmission/Drive shaft/Wheels/ETC.. Not just

RWHP 400/.82 = 487.80 Crank HP
RWHP 420/.82= 512.19 Crank HP

469 Crank HP figure has been proven solely due to Marketing Strategy, the aforementioned S55/SL55/CL55 kompressor models are ALL advertised at 493 Crank HP

Thericker

Shesh I missed your post

c32AMG-DTM

It is a lighter car than the other 55 vehicles, correct?

Marcus Frost

It is - but the weight alone could not explain the differences in trap speed. If it were just lighter and had less power, it would not run so much quicker than the other 55s.

-m

GGPE500

Did you have a look at other graphs of the car tested on the same day? I also have graphs of many other makes of cars that was tested and confirm the factory figures.

Factory rated figures is witnessed test. I have taken officials, in my previous job, to do a witness test on emission and learn that the power test is also a witnessed test.

str8ridin

Check out the numbers in my sig. Those were stock. But NOT SAE Corrected. So, I believe you.

But then again, numbers are numbers....the true test of those numbers is how you do at the track. No debating that....well, on this forum, anything can be debated.

edit:

+1 on it being peculiar that two cars are near the same.

Marcus Frost

GGPE,

I'm well aware of the testing manufacturers have to do to get an SAE rating for their engines, as well as what the EPA requires. In reality, heat soak, ambient conditions, engine break-in, fuel quality, and a million other factors can all have a small, yet visible effect on the power figures an engine will make. We have seen MANY 55 cars make dyno pulls, and while cars like the SL55 are rated at 493hp, they do not make more power than an E55.

This isn't up for debate. How this particular dyno saw two E55s make exactly the same HP (within decimal points of each other) is beyond me. Smells pretty funny, though.

-m

mthis

ther is something funky about does runs, how would that be posible. i know e55 run high power but what happened to that one.

E55Pilot

Just an FYI, Factory numbers are produced on an engine dyno. On that dyno the engine is not turning a waterpump, Powersteering pump, Alt, AC compressor, trans or any other accessory drive.

You will NEVER see those numbers on a chassis dyno, that's why your numbers look very suspect

The Godfather

Is that how it's calculated? /.82? Way cool then. Mine was 410WHP that's exactly 500HP on the dot!

c32AMG-DTM

I see... thanks Marcus Wasn't sure what the differences are... but I do know (for example) that SRT-6's trap several MPH higher than comparably modded C32s, even if they put down the same power - because the SRT-6 is several hundred pounds lighter.

Logically, it makes sense - it would take more power to accellerate a heavier mass to the same speed in the same distance (other factors being equal). Conversely, less power *could* accellerate a lighter mass to a higher speed, if the weight difference was greater than the HP difference. If the weight difference is negligible, and the traps are slightly higher, that would seem to anecdotally reinforce your point that they make the same BHP.

regor60

suspect

HYEPWR

Good Point E55Pilot.....Although you are giving more credance to the dyno sheet.

If the engine on a engine dyno puts out 493hp(the amount we all assume for the E55).

Now add in the aux drives(alternator,wpump,ect)--its entirely possible that the car loses 20hp from that....making this dyno's actual number seem accurate.

Dont know what all the fuss is about---its just a dyno---theyre just good for tuning.

Marcus--your CPT dyno for stage 1 says what 435whp??str8ridin's STOCK dynojet says 487whp??

bottom line--->who cares what a machine says and long as its repeatable and consistant.

GGPE500

You are absolutely correct. But that's was in the 70s with Gross rating.

The current (after 2005) SAE testing standard, all the accessories must be included as in a production cars. The standard even dictate how much oil to have in the oil pan. Some Japanese makers, use the loophole (pre05) to reduce amount of oil in the Pan to reduce windage to show higher number and were fined heavily in 2005. The current SAE testing method must be follow and witnessed in order to use the word "SAE" in their brochure.

Kindly have a look at other graphs we tested at http://www.gtrcenter.net/

I should have the video of the E55 test posted soon.

Vic55

Forget the dyno numbers, who won the race between the GTR and E55?

Tell me you have a vid or a story!!!!!!

Max.H

Dyno Shmyno. I can give a rats tail about a graph in this situation. What do the car run? +1 with Vic, Who won the race?