jpohl402

Only wondering which engine is heavier?

MHP

I don't have exact figures but with the blower, intercooler and associated hardware the 55K has to weigh more. The 63 has a half composite half aluminum intake to boot.

jrcart

Good question, one would assume the larger block, larger pistons and larger crank in the 63 would outweigh the SC and IC on the 55. I'm sure somebody with the exact specs will chime in shortly.

MHP

63: Daimler/AMG M156: 6.2L DOHC 32V, weighs 439 lb. That's less than a LS3 small block from GM.

55K: Still looking.

MarcusF

Per MB USA, the 55K weighs 485 pounds.

aldoe

Interestingly, Corvette C6 LS7 weighs 458lbs generating 505 horsepower and 475 lb.-ft. torque.

Pushrod or not, its hand assembled and very comparable to the Merc 6.2l block. Is there any real advantage with the Merc engine?

LS7 Info

splinter

No, except for the fact it’s available in a supremely competent four door sedan, too.

aldoe

It just seems as if there's quite a bit of snobbery regarding "German" engine superiority that isn't actually factual.

splinter

Could very well be.

I’ve often referenced GM’s LS9 and its supercharger as excellence in contemporary powertrain engineering.

jrcart

Let me tell you, I currently own multiple German and American cars...the German ones are far superior in build quality, dependability and reliability. It has nothing to do with snobbery, just plain and simple facts and reality. The LS6 in my CTS-V is decent, but the rest of the drive train sucks, the tranny sucks, the rear-end sucks. The engine actually probably sucks too but the car has been in the shop so many times I don't even bother driving it anymore for fear of breaking something else...if I don't drive it I can't break it, right? LOL

c32AMG-DTM

Well... agree and disagree, perhaps. The Europeans and Japanese have traditionally employed more advanced designs and materials to do more with less, IMHO. The domestic approach has typically been the more brutish path of "punch out the displacement" to make the power level desired.

I will say, I think there are some real gems among the domestics available, and if anything they've been closing the gap in recent years. Still always find myself behind the wheel of a European car, though... so maybe I'm one of those snobs

MarcusF

Earlier you posted the LS7 was comparable to the M156. I’m not so sure. Aside from the obvious point of the M156 being over 10% smaller and producing more peak power (and it's not a flash number, the M156 has 90% of it's peak torque available at 2000 RPM), the M156 does have design advantages. The M156 is a closed deck design. A closed deck design weighs more, but it allows for higher combustion pressures. The LS7 is an open deck design. The crank on an M156 is held in place by a bedplate. The LS7 uses caps. A bedplate design is unquestionably better in high performance applications. The M156 cylinder walls are constructed using a twin wire arc spraying process that is considerably harder than the Lokasil process it replaces. Chevrolet simply pressed steel sleeves in an aluminum block for the LS7. On the M156, both intake and exhaust valve duration can be independently varied by over 42 degrees. The LS7's single bumpstick design is physically incapable of independent variable valve duration. The M156 uses bucket tappets under cams. The LS7 has push rods, rockers, and two valve heads.


I could go on for quite a bit longer, but I think you get my point.

bobgodd

While this is true, it does not necessarily denote that the LS7 is hindered by being a OHV engine. I would love to see what Japanese or German manufacturers could do on a mass-produced pushrod engine.

It's no secret that I am very PRO American car, but bias aside, Chevrolet does make some killer engines.

aldoe

Jrcart, my points were regarding the engine itself, vehicle dynamics, drivetrain and rear-end would be a different point entirely.

MarcusF, thanks for clarifying specific areas that you believe are superior with the Merc 6.2 (M156). I still fail to understand your points fully. Regardless of higher combustion pressures or twin arc spraying process; if the engines make similar power/torque curves with reliability and efficient fuel consumption, there is no advantage.

Basically, I'm trying to justify to myself why I made the right engine choice considering the price.

BenzBoy12

+100, can't tell you how many american cars I've been around that have effed up the drivetrain in some way or another, usually the tranny eating itself. Just as a comparo, the S65 engine weighs about 6 lbs. more than the M156, pretty amazing when you think about it, I think I saw that the old 5.4 SC weighed over 500 lbs.

liquiddi

I have said it before and I will say it again. Chevy builds some of the best engines on the planet. I loved my LS1 and I love my LS2. I don't care if they are pushrod engines. They are awesome for what they cost.

jmf003

FWIW GM lists the LS3 at 415 lbs. LS6 and LS7 are slightly heavier, at 464 lbs and 440 lbs respectively. http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...ineQRC2008.pdf

Jim Brady

I agree that GM did a great job in the LS7, but you might want to check the
Corvette forums for the number of gernaded LS7's and there's a lot. I have yet to see a post of a blown AMG 6.2! The 6.2 (6.3) is only using 87% of its throttle in the current applications and it's very under stressed according to the AMG engineers. So the advantage as I see it is reliability.
Jimmy

Hammer Down

Some of the LS7 blow up due to driver error. To high of revs, mis shifts, too much NOS, backyard supercharging etc.

jpohl402

VERY interesting! I had posted a topic before about engine longevity.....

Many moving parts of 55k engine - vs. - less moving parts in 63, but typically thought the high compression/lightweight parts cause higher stress.....
Maybe not??
AMG engineers are purely genius!

E55_GT3wheels

+1. Almost always driver error...although most of the time the driver wont admit it.

e500slr

Sorry to bring up an old thread but how do you find engine weights? Specifically Mercedes.

V12Godspeed

I would sure like to know how much my V12 would be in terms of lbs.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Heavy enough to keep your front end from lifting when you reach escape velocity.

V12Godspeed

I get your point, Just look at this picture....
Still looks like front end will come off....