Well, now it's time for my MHP nightmare story **with Vids**
02-14-2009, 04:09 PM
#101
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
What if you do this:
Go ahead and send him the ECU back, and get your 5 grand. Then when you get it back, send it to a different tuner before you even install it. That way, if by some chance they decide to hide an easter egg in there, it'll get wiped before any damage could happen.
Go ahead and send him the ECU back, and get your 5 grand. Then when you get it back, send it to a different tuner before you even install it. That way, if by some chance they decide to hide an easter egg in there, it'll get wiped before any damage could happen.
02-14-2009, 04:19 PM
#102
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'10 Porsche Turbo PDK, 500e, GL450
easy enough
just send to him ... and before you drive the car (IF) you get them back ... then just take it to the dealer to get reflashed.
02-14-2009, 04:26 PM
#103
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Jesus Christ Andy, I know you are still reading this board. What the hell is Jim going to do with your faulty tune......do you really think he is going to sell it to a competitor so they can make their cars take three seconds for a 2nd to 3rd shift?
Give him back his money. He is not going to compromise any of your trade secrets. He just wants this to be done and over.
If Kleeman, Evo, Renntech, etc really wanted your ECU/TCU secrets I would think they'd just have someone (employee/friend) buy your tune. They certainly would not want Jim's defective tune. I see absolutely no reason you need to reflash anything.
BTW Andy, I do like you but this kind of stuff really makes me cringe.
Give him back his money. He is not going to compromise any of your trade secrets. He just wants this to be done and over. If Kleeman, Evo, Renntech, etc really wanted your ECU/TCU secrets I would think they'd just have someone (employee/friend) buy your tune. They certainly would not want Jim's defective tune. I see absolutely no reason you need to reflash anything.
BTW Andy, I do like you but this kind of stuff really makes me cringe.
02-14-2009, 04:42 PM
#104
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
That sounds like the run around to me. Tell him to send you the refund and that afterwards you will send him the proof that you reflashed your car at a reputable tuner. The he can't claim you're running around town with "his tune" for free. I mean why on earth would anyone in their right mind send their ecu to him? Even if a lock wasn't put on it you wouldn't see it for months.
I understand the OP's reluctance to send the ECU/TCU in, due to the prior experience with unacceptable delays - this situation has become so public, however, that I would expect the turn-around time to be as brief as possible - MHP knows we'll hear about it, if it's anything else. The fear of malicious code being inserted prior to sending everything back... that's a bit "out there" IMHO. If proof of this was ever discovered and word got out, they might as well shutter their doors - keep in mind, MHP tunes for a lot of marques, not just MB folks through MBWorld.
That said, I can also understand the vendor's reluctance to refund the software purchase without personally making sure that their tuning has been entirely removed - you'd think they'd want this documented for their records, any future liability, etc. Impasse seems to be the right description, unfortunately for both parties.
How do other "money-back-guarantee" software tuners handle this situation when it arises? I would think that "send the box(es) back, we'll flash you back and refund your money" would be the status quo... but that's just logically what makes sense to me, I have nothing else to base that on.
blkonblkclk got a refund from MHP, when his TCU tune didn't function properly - I presume he had to send the TCU back to Dave for the software to be removed? Maybe he can chime in...
Jakpro - from you videos, you appear to have two functional TCUs (one tuned by MHP, and one tuned by Kleemann). Do you also have two functional ECUs? (one that you had already, and the new one MHP asked you to buy) - just curious if you can have a functional Beast even with the set of MHP ECU/TCU boxes out of your hands...? Reaching for a silver-lining, I suppose... this is a s**tty situation all around. Agree w/ others, though, $5k isn't chump change to most, and is worth getting back if you can find an amenable approach with the vendor. Good luck and keep us posted.
Last edited by c32AMG-DTM; 02-14-2009 at 04:45 PM.
02-14-2009, 05:06 PM
#105
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E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
If Andy wants the tune back, here is what would be fair in this case.
#1. Full refund of all monies paid to MHP. (tune & ECU)
#2. Pre paid stock ECU to be picked up by Jakpro at closest dealer to him.
#3. Jakepro returns ECU with MHP tune to Andy.
#4. Andy resells Jakpro's ECU to Rock, Rock post my nightmare Vol II.
#1. Full refund of all monies paid to MHP. (tune & ECU)
#2. Pre paid stock ECU to be picked up by Jakpro at closest dealer to him.
#3. Jakepro returns ECU with MHP tune to Andy.
#4. Andy resells Jakpro's ECU to Rock, Rock post my nightmare Vol II.
02-14-2009, 06:18 PM
#107
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
Or better yet....Jim takes his car to a dealer and has everything flashed back to stock. The dealer will for sure charge at least labor to do this, so Andy foots the bill. Once the MHP tunes have been erased, Jim faxes Andy the PAID AND COMPLETED workorder from the dealer and a full refund is paid to Jim immediatly.
Minimal downtime for all parties involved and Jim is assured that his components don't have to go back to MHP.
Minimal downtime for all parties involved and Jim is assured that his components don't have to go back to MHP.
02-14-2009, 06:58 PM
#108
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
Or better yet....Jim takes his car to a dealer and has everything flashed back to stock. The dealer will for sure charge at least labor to do this, so Andy foots the bill. Once the MHP tunes have been erased, Jim faxes Andy the PAID AND COMPLETED workorder from the dealer and a full refund is paid to Jim immediatly.
Minimal downtime for all parties involved and Jim is assured that his components don't have to go back to MHP.
Minimal downtime for all parties involved and Jim is assured that his components don't have to go back to MHP.
) 
02-14-2009, 07:23 PM
#109
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
SORRY DUDE !! This is the problem when I'm responding from posts frpm another board !!!
Whatever, it's a total charlie foxtrot anyway.
Whatever, it's a total charlie foxtrot anyway.
02-14-2009, 08:22 PM
#111
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Nobody is going to see any refund because the $$ is not available. A tuner lives from tune to tune anyway and given that his rep is ruined, how could he refund anyone? Remember there is no debtor's prison and you can't get water out of a rock. Don't throw good money after bad. Move on down the road.
02-14-2009, 08:30 PM
#112
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
Potentially good news on Jakpro's refund situation - this was posted on absolutely driven by Andy, in the Benz section, in the MHP call-out thread - I believe this to be allowable/permissible under TOU rules, since Rock quoted similarly from the same site. Posts #43 onward have some additional info that may be of interest, but specifically on this topic, here‘s an excerpt from post #49 (bolded section, emphasis mine):
Joe, no question, we dropped the ball with Jim's TCU and the delay he incurred was unacceptable, we have and will continue to acknowledge that. While the excuses may be lame, they are the truth, and again I'd rather post that than a lie of any kind.
As far as the refund situation, I have personally sent 2 texts, left 2 voicemails and made 2 public offers to Jim in which I offer him a full refund for the TCU (and if he isn't happy with the ECU, that as well--though again I think he likes the ECU). All he needs to do is send me an email/text/voicemail/PM telling me how he'd like his refund sent and whether or not he'd like to send us back the TCU for another shot. As posted previously, if he does give us another shot he still gets a full refund and we'll continue to refine his TCU cal (for free) until it works satisfactorily to him--basically giving him a free TCU cal.
Again the offer has been on the table since before anything was ever posted and it's not going anywhere--it's the same that I'd offer to any customer. I just need to hear back from Jim directly regarding what he wants done and it will be taken care of immediately as promised.
I just wish he would've come to us before posting as we would've offered him the same deal as now.
Yeah I'm beginning to get that. I'm not flawless, far from it, and I realize that my direct/up front attitude isn't appreciated by many. Like I said above, sometimes my passion for cars in general gets the best of me and I tend to respond to too many people on the net.
However I do think that anyone with an objective take on this situation will say that me being an ***, and me allegedly being a liar with a bogus product are two entirely different things. I hope said people can see through the smoke caused by the excessive bashing/drama at mbworld and understand that we aren't perfect, but are more than willing to go the extra mile and make things right for any of our customers.
With all due respect I still do believe we have the best tuning on the market, and in time I think a lot of others will accept it as well--even if they dislike me. MIR will speak volumes with us bringing 8 tuned cars there, two of them built by Bruce @ TTM (M6 and CLK 63 BS). Other vehicles in attendance will be: 3 MHP tuned C63s, E63, S63, M5, and Lexus IS-F).
Thanks for taking the time to listen.
Andy
Finally, you made mistakes and frankly offered some pretty lame excuses regarding the JackPro situation. There were so many things you could've done to make that situation right, but didn't. Have you even refunded his money?
As far as the refund situation, I have personally sent 2 texts, left 2 voicemails and made 2 public offers to Jim in which I offer him a full refund for the TCU (and if he isn't happy with the ECU, that as well--though again I think he likes the ECU). All he needs to do is send me an email/text/voicemail/PM telling me how he'd like his refund sent and whether or not he'd like to send us back the TCU for another shot. As posted previously, if he does give us another shot he still gets a full refund and we'll continue to refine his TCU cal (for free) until it works satisfactorily to him--basically giving him a free TCU cal.
Again the offer has been on the table since before anything was ever posted and it's not going anywhere--it's the same that I'd offer to any customer. I just need to hear back from Jim directly regarding what he wants done and it will be taken care of immediately as promised.
I just wish he would've come to us before posting as we would've offered him the same deal as now.
I hope you realize that you brought most of this on yourself by your attitude. Do you understand that even though everything you say may be 95% truthful that no one wants to give you the benefit of the doubt? If you are going to act like the biggest and best and baddest tuner on the planet then you have to back it up. And not only back it up with results, but also with customer service. You failed on both. You keep talking about mistakes that happen with everyone, but YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO MAKE ONE SINGLE MISTAKE WHEN YOU ACT LIKE YOU DO!
Maybe someday you'll realize this.
Maybe someday you'll realize this.
However I do think that anyone with an objective take on this situation will say that me being an ***, and me allegedly being a liar with a bogus product are two entirely different things. I hope said people can see through the smoke caused by the excessive bashing/drama at mbworld and understand that we aren't perfect, but are more than willing to go the extra mile and make things right for any of our customers.
With all due respect I still do believe we have the best tuning on the market, and in time I think a lot of others will accept it as well--even if they dislike me. MIR will speak volumes with us bringing 8 tuned cars there, two of them built by Bruce @ TTM (M6 and CLK 63 BS). Other vehicles in attendance will be: 3 MHP tuned C63s, E63, S63, M5, and Lexus IS-F).
Thanks for taking the time to listen.
Andy
02-14-2009, 08:36 PM
#113
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
Potentially good news on Jakpro's refund situation - this was posted on absolutely driven by Andy, in the Benz section, in the MHP call-out thread - I believe this to be allowable/permissible under TOU rules, since Rock quoted similarly from the same site. Posts #43 onward have some additional info that may be of interest, but specifically on this topic, here‘s an excerpt from post #49 (bolded section, emphasis mine):
02-15-2009, 10:09 AM
#116
For those of you whining about "he should refund you and you keep the flash" in what world would this be SOP? If you buy something from Best Buy and take it back for a refund, do you get to keep the purchase?
I'm very sorry you had a rough time with your experience - I totally agree that the situation you describe would have left me unsatisfied as well. But in no example that I can think of do you get a refund AND keep the product that has left you dissatisfied.
Or better yet....Jim takes his car to a dealer and has everything flashed back to stock. The dealer will for sure charge at least labor to do this, so Andy foots the bill. Once the MHP tunes have been erased, Jim faxes Andy the PAID AND COMPLETED workorder from the dealer and a full refund is paid to Jim immediatly.
Minimal downtime for all parties involved and Jim is assured that his components don't have to go back to MHP.
Minimal downtime for all parties involved and Jim is assured that his components don't have to go back to MHP.
Last edited by gravedgr; 02-15-2009 at 10:17 AM.
02-15-2009, 10:21 AM
#117
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I may get ripped for this, but I honestly don't see what is wrong with this offer. You ship it back, MHP reflashes it to stock and ships it back. You're refunded the full cost and MHP pays for shipping both ways.
For those of you whining about "he should refund you and you keep the flash" in what world would this be SOP? If you buy something from Best Buy and take it back for a refund, do you get to keep the purchase?
I'm very sorry you had a rough time with your experience - I totally agree that the situation you describe would have left me unsatisfied as well. But in no example that I can think of do you get a refund AND keep the product that has left you dissatisfied.
For those of you whining about "he should refund you and you keep the flash" in what world would this be SOP? If you buy something from Best Buy and take it back for a refund, do you get to keep the purchase?
I'm very sorry you had a rough time with your experience - I totally agree that the situation you describe would have left me unsatisfied as well. But in no example that I can think of do you get a refund AND keep the product that has left you dissatisfied.
Andy needs to step up and refund Jakpro and I as well as anyone else waiting for a refund if he wants to have any credibilty in this matter. I am now only asking for 1 tune to be refunded rather than both and I can't even get that.
02-15-2009, 11:04 AM
#118
We should start using a reflash device that allows the owner to change between a stock and modified calibration. If there is ever a need for refund, the owner returns the car to stock and the programmer to the tuner for a refund.....
BTW, this would also allow for the tuner to email updated calibration files to the owner and allow the owner to try them. If the owner does not like "Stage Sixteen" then the owner goes back to his previous tune and does not pay for "Sixteen".
BTW, this would also allow for the tuner to email updated calibration files to the owner and allow the owner to try them. If the owner does not like "Stage Sixteen" then the owner goes back to his previous tune and does not pay for "Sixteen".
02-15-2009, 11:06 AM
#119
02-15-2009, 01:32 PM
#120
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Mercedes
I would be a little affraid to send it back as well, MACHC5 sent his Black Series ECU back to Andy for a refund and "stock re-flash" way back in early to mid December and as of last Thursday the 12th MACHC5 still had not recieved his Black Series ECU back from Dave or Andy. I can see why Jakpro would be reluctant to ship anything back to MHP, the last thing Jakpro needs are any more hold-ups or obstacles. Under the circumstnaces Andy should refund the money with no further questions or stipulations put on the terms of the refund, it is clearly obvious the ECU tune does not work, it's not like Jakpro is going to get his money refunded and continue to run the bad ECU tune, nor does the tune have any value on the black market, I doubt tuners would be lining up to look at a tune that does not work.
Andy needs to step up and refund Jakpro and I as well as anyone else waiting for a refund if he wants to have any credibilty in this matter. I am now only asking for 1 tune to be refunded rather than both and I can't even get that.
Andy needs to step up and refund Jakpro and I as well as anyone else waiting for a refund if he wants to have any credibilty in this matter. I am now only asking for 1 tune to be refunded rather than both and I can't even get that.
02-15-2009, 02:00 PM
#121
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GT-R
Andy - seems like you are no better than Marty at KRC Performance who I sued and won because he fabricated lies upon lies and ultimately wrote checks his big mouth couldn't cash. You owe it to yourself and to the others you bamboozled to make this situation right somehow.
In addition, your "world's fastest" C63 record has been defeated. Stay tuned for more details later.
In addition, your "world's fastest" C63 record has been defeated. Stay tuned for more details later.
02-15-2009, 05:39 PM
#122
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02-15-2009, 06:10 PM
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2004 E55
Andy - seems like you are no better than Marty at KRC Performance who I sued and won because he fabricated lies upon lies and ultimately wrote checks his big mouth couldn't cash. You owe it to yourself and to the others you bamboozled to make this situation right somehow.
In addition, your "world's fastest" C63 record has been defeated. Stay tuned for more details later.
In addition, your "world's fastest" C63 record has been defeated. Stay tuned for more details later.
