WHY more than 800HP is a waste,+new ZONDA with AMG 7.3 v12 engine
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1988 535i 5 speed
quote "AMG makes exactly one motor on their own, the M156. That's it. With that one exception, they do not design their own engines from the ground up, they just modify and assemble Mercedes blocks."
WRONG
dude,, dont talk to me like I dont know cars,, been a test engineer and
prototype test drive for GM and PORSCHE. lol and driven more supercars, and on more tracks, that I care to remember
dude you are so wrong,, I have talked to AMG execs at dealers,
and at the AMG events,,
if you go to the damn AMG page,, you will see in their press releases as well they are NOW not modifying MERCEDES blocks,, at all,
from the 156 engine 6.3 liter on,,they have made the company desicion
to be more automonous, and design all their futures engines from the ground up,, ask them, you are way behind the times,,
if bother to read the SLS mercedes post on this forum you will see they are making that engine front scratch too, its NOT a mercedes block or design its AMG
if you understood the differences between the mercedes modified engines
you are talking about like the M 113 etc,, and the V 12 600
and the differeces AMG is NOW doing designing from the ground up new designs like the M156 and the NEW SLS amg engine
here are the differences between the older merc engines you mention and the newer ground up AMG engines
and AMG does not modify the basic mercedes engine cause the basic merc engine has NONE of these features
1 DIfferent variable intake manifold featuring two integral throttle flaps,
2 vertical arrangement of the intake and exhaust ducts ensures perfect cylinder charging. like vertical Stacks
3Bucket tappets in the cylinder heads allow a stiff valve train and therefore high engine speeds.
4 Variable camshaft adjustment, a particularly rigid closed-deck crankcase and cylinder walls with a new,
5 revolutionary LDS coating are further attributes of this ultra-modern V8 engine made by Mercedes-AMG.
6 different valves ,
7 blueprinted and balanced, ported and polished. by HAND, at the newer AMG facility
I stood by for like 30 minuites and listend to AMG techs talk about this,, at a event,
and then talked to their design tech, about it..
you are confusing apples and oranges AGAIN..
the older V12 does not do any of this,, and is a merc basic engine that is modifies by AMG..
the new ones like the 156 and SLS merc and all future AMG engines will be totally seperate, from AMG in house..design..
its that simple man go research it
WRONG
dude,, dont talk to me like I dont know cars,, been a test engineer and
prototype test drive for GM and PORSCHE. lol and driven more supercars, and on more tracks, that I care to remember
dude you are so wrong,, I have talked to AMG execs at dealers,
and at the AMG events,,
if you go to the damn AMG page,, you will see in their press releases as well they are NOW not modifying MERCEDES blocks,, at all,
from the 156 engine 6.3 liter on,,they have made the company desicion
to be more automonous, and design all their futures engines from the ground up,, ask them, you are way behind the times,,
if bother to read the SLS mercedes post on this forum you will see they are making that engine front scratch too, its NOT a mercedes block or design its AMG
if you understood the differences between the mercedes modified engines
you are talking about like the M 113 etc,, and the V 12 600
and the differeces AMG is NOW doing designing from the ground up new designs like the M156 and the NEW SLS amg engine
here are the differences between the older merc engines you mention and the newer ground up AMG engines
and AMG does not modify the basic mercedes engine cause the basic merc engine has NONE of these features
1 DIfferent variable intake manifold featuring two integral throttle flaps,
2 vertical arrangement of the intake and exhaust ducts ensures perfect cylinder charging. like vertical Stacks
3Bucket tappets in the cylinder heads allow a stiff valve train and therefore high engine speeds.
4 Variable camshaft adjustment, a particularly rigid closed-deck crankcase and cylinder walls with a new,
5 revolutionary LDS coating are further attributes of this ultra-modern V8 engine made by Mercedes-AMG.
6 different valves ,
7 blueprinted and balanced, ported and polished. by HAND, at the newer AMG facility
I stood by for like 30 minuites and listend to AMG techs talk about this,, at a event,
and then talked to their design tech, about it..
you are confusing apples and oranges AGAIN..
the older V12 does not do any of this,, and is a merc basic engine that is modifies by AMG..
the new ones like the 156 and SLS merc and all future AMG engines will be totally seperate, from AMG in house..design..
its that simple man go research it
Mods, please move to OT, don't know why he put this in here.
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a g
Wow, CCW just explained this all to you (btw CCW good job, I wanted to do that but felt too lazy) and you still don't get it. What do you not get about the features that you listed being a part of the M120 as well? And btw, the SLS engine IS AN M156, for someone that knows so much you really aren't paying attention very well. So good job, you figured out how to read, and saw that IN THE FUTURE, AMG will be designing engines. What the hell does that have to do the M120s in Zondas? Pretty much your whole post was about the M156, which, in case you STILL didn't realize, is not used in and Pagani vehicles. So, I guess, there's not much more to say, CCW said it all, and you seem to not be able to read yourself. Honestly, for someone that claims to be some industry-famous extremely experienced test-driver, you sound like a 14 year old, no offense. It would be easier to read your posts if you were a little clearer. And since we're on it, what famous prototypes have you driven that give you this superior knowledge of AMG engines?
Mods, please move to OT, don't know why he put this in here.
Mods, please move to OT, don't know why he put this in here.
I bet he doesn't even know who supplies OE tires on the Bugatti Veyron.
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CLK GTR #003 & #017
uhh... I don't know how this got so far, I am pretty sure benz made this engine in 2002(early 2000ish). They had intended to put it into a car they decided not to make, they then but it into A(not all) CLK GTR upon a special someones request. READ: http://www.supercars.net/cars/2225.html Benz only used this in 2 cars, before handing it over for the Zonda, the pagadi even said that's where they got it from... I am sure they engine isn't eactly the same, just like my 08 E63 and the 07's engine is slightly different from the 09 version where they changed a few little things, to included exhaust that makes me upset I don't have em...
I posted this in the other article as well.
Edit: I don't think it was the same engine as the SL73, though they wear trying to bring back the idea. I remember reading an entire article somewhere.
uhh... I don't know how this got so far, I am pretty sure benz made this engine in 2002(early 2000ish). They had intended to put it into a car they decided not to make, they then but it into A(not all) CLK GTR upon a special someones request. READ: http://www.supercars.net/cars/2225.html Benz only used this in 2 cars, before handing it over for the Zonda, the pagadi even said that's where they got it from... I am sure they engine isn't eactly the same, just like my 08 E63 and the 07's engine is slightly different from the 09 version where they changed a few little things, to included exhaust that makes me upset I don't have em...
I posted this in the other article as well.
Edit: I don't think it was the same engine as the SL73, though they wear trying to bring back the idea. I remember reading an entire article somewhere.
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From: Phoenix, AZ
'12 E350 Coupe (3rd Benz)
I know a guy(Reza) who drive's Gumpert Apollo's all the time, I don't know all the details, he takes them to shows, and sells them and lots of other exotics, I know that. I know him through Dustin of Mischief, I drive cars in his movies =] (Bring fast car, drive like a nutcase, party like an animal, RAWR)
Edit: I have not driven an Apollo yet, but I will get the chance on one of these runs. I don't think I have ANY in's to drive a Zonda, I wish, that and the Veyron seam to be impossible. (I have driven LOTS of exotics, but I don't know ****, I just get to drive em, lol)
Edit: I have not driven an Apollo yet, but I will get the chance on one of these runs. I don't think I have ANY in's to drive a Zonda, I wish, that and the Veyron seam to be impossible. (I have driven LOTS of exotics, but I don't know ****, I just get to drive em, lol)
Last edited by intellilogic; Mar 9, 2009 at 04:10 PM.
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SL600
I think the issue in the end is really more of this guy's claims that he's an Engineer and professional test driver for Porsche and GM...
Also, FWIW, I remember that AMG concept car, and I am not sure the motors are the same. I think that was a one-off. According to your article, the AMG concept car had 720+hp, and the Zonda F has a lot less, closer to the 575 the SL73 has. There is a 100hp difference between the Zonda F the the AMG concept.
Also, FWIW, I remember that AMG concept car, and I am not sure the motors are the same. I think that was a one-off. According to your article, the AMG concept car had 720+hp, and the Zonda F has a lot less, closer to the 575 the SL73 has. There is a 100hp difference between the Zonda F the the AMG concept.
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I know a guy(Reza) who drive's Gumpert Apollo's all the time, I don't know all the details, he takes them to shows, and sells them and lots of other exotics, I know that. I know him through Dustin of Mischief, I drive cars in his movies =] (Bring fast car, drive like a nutcase, party like an animal, RAWR)
Edit: I have not driven an Apollo yet, but I will get the chance on one of these runs. I don't think I have ANY in's to drive a Zonda, I wish, that and the Veyron seam to be impossible. (I have driven LOTS of exotics, but I don't know ****, I just get to drive em, lol)
Edit: I have not driven an Apollo yet, but I will get the chance on one of these runs. I don't think I have ANY in's to drive a Zonda, I wish, that and the Veyron seam to be impossible. (I have driven LOTS of exotics, but I don't know ****, I just get to drive em, lol)
Nothin' like $10,000,000.00 in cars FTW!!!!!!!!
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[quote=CWW;3397491]Oh please. So first you're going to have the AMG engineers call me to tell me I'm wrong, and now all of a sudden you ARE an engineer? Oh yeah, and apparently, a test driver for Porsche too?
HAHA
the only thing that has been proven here is
1 you didnt even know that AMG is not making all their future engines since the 156 in house from scratch which proves your ignorant, and talking out your bunger..
2 you said the M156 was the only AMG engine they desinged from teh ground up and that the SLS uses the M 156 when in fact it uses the modified M159
2 you think there is one one ZONDA< which there are like 6 difference models with different enginers and totally diff specs..
which is why you made you stupid statement that the ZONDA uses a 10 year old MERC v12 engine and not the AMG made V12..
cause you did not know **** about cars, cause if you did you would know the ZONDA CF 12 F was not made until 2005, and uses the newer AMG V12's lol
after 3 stupid mistakes like that, your credibity is shot bud
nuff said your a waste or air.. with all your BS
gets your facts right next time and read a little and talk to engineers.
HAHA
the only thing that has been proven here is
1 you didnt even know that AMG is not making all their future engines since the 156 in house from scratch which proves your ignorant, and talking out your bunger..
2 you said the M156 was the only AMG engine they desinged from teh ground up and that the SLS uses the M 156 when in fact it uses the modified M159
2 you think there is one one ZONDA< which there are like 6 difference models with different enginers and totally diff specs..
which is why you made you stupid statement that the ZONDA uses a 10 year old MERC v12 engine and not the AMG made V12..
cause you did not know **** about cars, cause if you did you would know the ZONDA CF 12 F was not made until 2005, and uses the newer AMG V12's lol
after 3 stupid mistakes like that, your credibity is shot bud
nuff said your a waste or air.. with all your BS
gets your facts right next time and read a little and talk to engineers.
Last edited by storm; Mar 10, 2009 at 03:12 PM.
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again your confusing ZONDA's
there are like 6 different ones going back 10 years.
the original like he said was the older V12 AMG..
but the newer ZONDA the C12 F was only released in 2005, and the CF clubsport F in 2007
and they have the newer AMG V12, so he was totally WRONG..
and just does not want to admit it...
and as far as the SLS, or what may eventually I am told by my inside sources be called in the US< the MERCEDES SLC, due to tradition..
although it does have a base M 156, there are differences made, which is why it has another 60 HP,
the M 156 is rated at 517 HP in europe,
the SLS engine is desingnated the 159 BTW so your WRONG , and has alot of mods over the 156 hence the 300k price
it has like 570,and from what I am told that is not final at all..and could go to 600
and not sure why you think this thread is not belonging to this forum
its about AMG enginers you cannot really get more AMG that that,
who made you FORUM leader? exactly ?
nothing worse than people who think they know it all and dont... I must say.. and that other dikweed,( not you ) was acting like he is the only one who knows about cars,, which is a joke, considering I was racing them and testing them for major OEM car makers, when he was playing
PACMAN in high school probably, driving a POS camaro, lol
I probably forgotten more about car tech than he has learned..
if you his friend, then you defending him cause of loyality , not cause he was right, cause he was wrong, there are differnet zondas and he was talking about teh ORIGINAL ZONDA not the NEW ZONDA C12F which uses the newer AMG v12 not the same engine as the original ZONDA, which your friend did not even know..
nuff said,, done with this thread
there are like 6 different ones going back 10 years.
the original like he said was the older V12 AMG..
but the newer ZONDA the C12 F was only released in 2005, and the CF clubsport F in 2007
and they have the newer AMG V12, so he was totally WRONG..
and just does not want to admit it...
and as far as the SLS, or what may eventually I am told by my inside sources be called in the US< the MERCEDES SLC, due to tradition..
although it does have a base M 156, there are differences made, which is why it has another 60 HP,
the M 156 is rated at 517 HP in europe,
the SLS engine is desingnated the 159 BTW so your WRONG , and has alot of mods over the 156 hence the 300k price
it has like 570,and from what I am told that is not final at all..and could go to 600
and not sure why you think this thread is not belonging to this forum
its about AMG enginers you cannot really get more AMG that that,
who made you FORUM leader? exactly ?
nothing worse than people who think they know it all and dont... I must say.. and that other dikweed,( not you ) was acting like he is the only one who knows about cars,, which is a joke, considering I was racing them and testing them for major OEM car makers, when he was playing
PACMAN in high school probably, driving a POS camaro, lol
I probably forgotten more about car tech than he has learned..
if you his friend, then you defending him cause of loyality , not cause he was right, cause he was wrong, there are differnet zondas and he was talking about teh ORIGINAL ZONDA not the NEW ZONDA C12F which uses the newer AMG v12 not the same engine as the original ZONDA, which your friend did not even know..
nuff said,, done with this thread
Last edited by storm; Mar 10, 2009 at 03:10 PM.
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And while he shares that information on the fantastic cars he has driven, I'd love to here the reasoning that since Pirelli or Goodyear are OE on cars like the new ZR1 (goodyear) and the Ferrari Enzo (pirelli) and somehow poorly engineered tires.
I bet he doesn't even know who supplies OE tires on the Bugatti Veyron.
I bet he doesn't even know who supplies OE tires on the Bugatti Veyron.
again, your too dumb to know that the BUgatti has one off tires specially designed for it for 260 mph and cost like 2500 ea spec ed by bugatti
not a thing like the street tire versions
lol to think that goodyear or Pirelli streeet tires are the same as the ones they put on a supercar, or same material just proves your an idiot..
the only thing the same about them is the name.. totally different tires..
so if you think that cause bugatti or a supercar has goodyears or pirellis on it that that makes the reg street tires by the same manufacture
as good or even remotely similiar you clueless
Last edited by storm; Mar 10, 2009 at 04:38 AM.
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exactly , thank you for backing me up,,
its just another example of how these 2 guys are wrong, and made incorrectl statements and then refuse to admit,
they even were talking about the wrong ZONDA,, lol
the originaly vs the newer C12 F which is only 2 years old and uses the newer V12 AMG, which is all I was saying...
thanks for the correct info.. which backs up what I said
that AMG makes 2 ground up engines the 156 and 159
and when that guy said AMG only takes merc engines and modifies them still, he apparently didnt even know they stopped that with the 156 and will do all dev in house now
its just another example of how these 2 guys are wrong, and made incorrectl statements and then refuse to admit,
they even were talking about the wrong ZONDA,, lol
the originaly vs the newer C12 F which is only 2 years old and uses the newer V12 AMG, which is all I was saying...
thanks for the correct info.. which backs up what I said
that AMG makes 2 ground up engines the 156 and 159
and when that guy said AMG only takes merc engines and modifies them still, he apparently didnt even know they stopped that with the 156 and will do all dev in house now
Last edited by storm; Mar 10, 2009 at 04:39 AM.
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I have no side in this argument but Storm....lol....dude....
nuff said,, done with this thread
was followed by 2 posts ---12 mins apart!!
I thought that was pretty funny........
nuff said,, done with this thread
was followed by 2 posts ---12 mins apart!!
I thought that was pretty funny........
Thread Starter
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good point,, lol,,,
it wa actually cause I had all 3 post replies open in 3 difference windows and posted them out of order,, OOPS,,
oh well,, good point though..
what can you do, the knucklehead just made me mad,,
peace
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[QUOTE=storm;3401843]
Idiot.
The only person whose credibility is shot is yours...Mr. Porsche Engineer and Test Driver...
Oh please. So first you're going to have the AMG engineers call me to tell me I'm wrong, and now all of a sudden you ARE an engineer? Oh yeah, and apparently, a test driver for Porsche too?
HAHA
the only thing that has been proven here is
1 you didnt even know that AMG is not making all their future engines since the 156 in house from scratch which proves your ignorant, and talking out your bunger..
2 you said the M156 was the only AMG engine they desinged from teh ground up and that the SLS uses the M 156 when in fact it uses the modified M159
2 you think there is one one ZONDA< which there are like 6 difference models with different enginers and totally diff specs..
which is why you made you stupid statement that the ZONDA uses a 10 year old MERC v12 engine and not the AMG made V12..
cause you did not know **** about cars, cause if you did you would know the ZONDA CF 12 F was not made until 2005, and uses the newer AMG V12's lol
after 3 stupid mistakes like that, your credibity is shot bud
nuff said your a waste or air.. with all your BS
gets your facts right next time and read a little and talk to engineers.
HAHA
the only thing that has been proven here is
1 you didnt even know that AMG is not making all their future engines since the 156 in house from scratch which proves your ignorant, and talking out your bunger..
2 you said the M156 was the only AMG engine they desinged from teh ground up and that the SLS uses the M 156 when in fact it uses the modified M159
2 you think there is one one ZONDA< which there are like 6 difference models with different enginers and totally diff specs..
which is why you made you stupid statement that the ZONDA uses a 10 year old MERC v12 engine and not the AMG made V12..
cause you did not know **** about cars, cause if you did you would know the ZONDA CF 12 F was not made until 2005, and uses the newer AMG V12's lol
after 3 stupid mistakes like that, your credibity is shot bud
nuff said your a waste or air.. with all your BS
gets your facts right next time and read a little and talk to engineers.
The only person whose credibility is shot is yours...Mr. Porsche Engineer and Test Driver...
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exactly , thank you for backing me up,,
its just another example of how these 2 guys are wrong, and made incorrectl statements and then refuse to admit,
they even were talking about the wrong ZONDA,, lol
the originaly vs the newer C12 F which is only 2 years old and uses the newer V12 AMG, which is all I was saying...
thanks for the correct info.. which backs up what I said
that AMG makes 2 ground up engines the 156 and 159
and when that guy said AMG only takes merc engines and modifies them still, he apparently didnt even know they stopped that with the 156 and will do all dev in house now
its just another example of how these 2 guys are wrong, and made incorrectl statements and then refuse to admit,
they even were talking about the wrong ZONDA,, lol
the originaly vs the newer C12 F which is only 2 years old and uses the newer V12 AMG, which is all I was saying...
thanks for the correct info.. which backs up what I said
that AMG makes 2 ground up engines the 156 and 159
and when that guy said AMG only takes merc engines and modifies them still, he apparently didnt even know they stopped that with the 156 and will do all dev in house now
Nice intentional mis-quote there...
Would have expected better from an engineer and Porsche test driver....
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If you actually want to learn about what motor is in the Zonda F, you should spend 5 seconds on the internet:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...amg-power.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M120_engine
You were wrong, and you're still wrong. Get over it.
You seem to have some comprehension problems, for such an accomplished Engineer, Porsche Driver, and GM tester...
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Only one knucklehead in this thread, and it's not me...
If you actually want to learn about what motor is in the Zonda F, you should spend 5 seconds on the internet:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...amg-power.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M120_engine
You were wrong, and you're still wrong. Get over it.
You seem to have some comprehension problems, for such an accomplished Engineer, Porsche Driver, and GM tester...
If you actually want to learn about what motor is in the Zonda F, you should spend 5 seconds on the internet:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...amg-power.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M120_engine
You were wrong, and you're still wrong. Get over it.
You seem to have some comprehension problems, for such an accomplished Engineer, Porsche Driver, and GM tester...
hahaha wait bboobhahaha sorry storm, I was actually going to try and make something similar but I was too lazy. Good going cww
And I am happy....why you may ask?
''M120 engine is a V12 automobile piston engine family used in the 1990s and 2000s.''
I was right! bohahahahahaha
This post has no use and is for pure amusement and is not like me, but oh well got to let it out every now and then
But oh don't mind me, am a normal guy who just likes cars, nothing like your level of secret test cars, engineer etc stuff
Last edited by Zod; Mar 10, 2009 at 04:02 PM.
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a g
I've only ever seen ONE car that wasn't a concept car develop at several million dollars ($10,000,000+) and owned by a Automotive company. That was a HIGHLY modified sport compact truck with literally custom one off BFgoodrich tires. Well more per tire than anything that goes on the Bugatti even.
Btw, I never said the Bugatti tires were in any way (other than tread design) similar in construction (which they can't be simply because of the PAX requirements). But you were to damn dense to realize that apparently...
lol to think that goodyear or Pirelli streeet tires are the same as the ones they put on a supercar, or same material just proves your an idiot..
the only thing the same about them is the name.. totally different tires..
the only thing the same about them is the name.. totally different tires..
so if you think that cause bugatti or a supercar has goodyears or pirellis on it that that makes the reg street tires by the same manufacture
as good or even remotely similiar you clueless
as good or even remotely similiar you clueless
Last edited by RedG; Mar 11, 2009 at 12:04 AM.
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The M156 is the only true AMG engine from the ground up. All of the other engines started with a basic Mercedes block and were modified by AMG.
The new Zonda F slated for 2010 is supposed to use the M275 twin-turbo V12 Mercedes block modified by AMG.
The new Zonda F slated for 2010 is supposed to use the M275 twin-turbo V12 Mercedes block modified by AMG.
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Also, FWIW, I hear the 2010+ car isn't going to be a Zonda, evidently, it's some whole new thing.
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there are literally a hundred examples,, you cant argue engineering. if you raced you would know this,, I have driven many prototypes for Porsche and GM on many race and test tracks and I can tell you when you get to like 750 hp it starts getting ugly.. and way to hard to manage.. and becomes slower around the turns.. cause you are always correcting for the excess power..
again 4 wheel drive and sophisticated computers like on bugatti are the rare exception.. and the fact it has rear airplane flaps to glue it to the road.. with like 3 g;s downforce..
again 4 wheel drive and sophisticated computers like on bugatti are the rare exception.. and the fact it has rear airplane flaps to glue it to the road.. with like 3 g;s downforce..
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LoL. It seems every thread that STORMY aka Mr FAKE Porsche/GM test driver is involved in, just turns to poop. This guy gets the award for drama queen. I hope he doesn't get banned too soon. It's hilarious watching him go off on his tangents.
Here's your daily dose of FAIL. You are an EPIC DISASTER.
Here's your daily dose of FAIL. You are an EPIC DISASTER.
Last edited by Max.H; Mar 12, 2009 at 04:08 PM.
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And while he shares that information on the fantastic cars he has driven, I'd love to here the reasoning that since Pirelli or Goodyear are OE on cars like the new ZR1 (goodyear) and the Ferrari Enzo (pirelli) and somehow poorly engineered tires.
I bet he doesn't even know who supplies OE tires on the Bugatti Veyron.
I bet he doesn't even know who supplies OE tires on the Bugatti Veyron.
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Mercedes,Porsche etc
[quote=Max.H;3406885]LoL. It seems every thread that STORMY aka Mr FAKE Porsche/GM test driver is involved in, just turns to poop. This guy gets the award for drama queen. I hope he doesn't get banned too soon. It's hilarious watching him go off on his tangents.
Coming from a guy that did a TIAJUANA MUFFLER job but gutting his AMG mufflers cause he was too CHEAP, to get real aftermarket mufflers
that is sooo funny
here are some homeless pics that remind me of you and a few others that describe you to a tee, since I an limited to what I can say on probably
cause you probably were like a craying little girl and went to tell on me to
the moderator.. boo hoo
so I have to restrain myself so pics will say what I cannot
you looking for rich WOman to buy you a real muffler
Coming from a guy that did a TIAJUANA MUFFLER job but gutting his AMG mufflers cause he was too CHEAP, to get real aftermarket mufflers
that is sooo funny
here are some homeless pics that remind me of you and a few others that describe you to a tee, since I an limited to what I can say on probably
cause you probably were like a craying little girl and went to tell on me to
the moderator.. boo hoo
so I have to restrain myself so pics will say what I cannot
you looking for rich WOman to buy you a real muffler
