e55 baller

Hello, was hoping the community could apply some logic here.

**First of all for obvious reasons please do not refer to me by name my car or any details about my car. I would greatly appreciate it. I hope you understand****

About 8 weeks ago my trans went (rpms climbed above 3500 but not power at all). I got the code PM0730 (incorrect gear ratio). At that time the codes P0128 (coolant temp too low) and P0410 (secondary air injection pump) were already in the system. I never had the the dreaded air injection done for obvious reasons and I think the coolant code is from the PTE t-stat.

A few days later after not driving the car I went partial throttle and the car popped a misfire code on cyl 2,4,6,8 (different banks) then the code P2040D or P20D4 (can't recall exactly) popped - load limit reached. The car was shaking badly at idle and it sounded like someone was under the car with a hammer banging away.

I flat bedded the car in for a diagonsis (non Benz shop) but reputable based on past experience and those of this community.

There analysis was that the incorrect gear ratio code had caused the engine misfire when under throttle since the ECU is trying to shut the motor down.

The warranty company was called in and they saw too many codes and focused in on the misfire and said we can't diagnosis your hypothesis that the trans is broken. So I had all the plugs replaced. They came back in again and the same issue occurred (they said that they had to drive it again to assess it) and they said they again can't properly diagnosis it since the misfiring and other codes are occurring.

What they said was that:

THE ENGINE CAN EFFECT THE TRANSMISSION BUT THE TRANSMISSION CAN NEVER EVER EFFECT THE ENGINE (MISFIRING).

This was stated by an ASE certified person with apparently 20 years of experience and he said he had hands on experience with the W211/E55. Can't verify that of course.

He said all codes need to be eliminated. The coolant one would likely go away with the OEM tstat and the secondary air injection would go away with the dreaded fix at major expense to power - is this now reversable to get back the HP???

My hypothesis is that the trans CAN effect the ENGINE and it is loading up the engine and the ECU is trying to shut the car down. The warranty company thinks its fuel delivery or an issue with the input parameters (two prexisting codes).

I think the clutch packs are worn and the stator and torque converter are shot.

Likely the only way to prove it is a visual inspection and tear down. I don't think the misfire code will ever go away with the existing trans so I am in a circular loop and argument with the aftermarket warranty company.

I know before you tell me...after warranty companies suck...especially when i paid $4700 for this contract. I have successfully won via litigation 10 years ago when I was denied but I don't want to go that route unless I have to but I also have the money to just get a new trans but I am doing this out of principle.


1) So do you agree with the shops assessment or the after warranty companies about the cause and effect?

2) Do you think it is even possible to eliminate the misfiring with the existing transmission in the car?

3) If you were trying to prove it was the trans would you do the dreaded flash (air injection) not knowing if it can be reversed?

4) Would you take it to Mercedes Benz and get it assessed which the warranty company wants to happen?

thanks for your help! My car has been side lined for 8 weeks.

CWW

All they're trying to do is go down the list of potential causes, starting with the cheapest possibilities first. It's the same thing you would do if you were paying for it yourself. Annoying? Yes. Unreasonable? Probably not.

No. The misfiring has nothing whatsoever to do with the transmission. Even if something in the tranny somehow causes the car to think it's exceeding the torque limit at partial throttle, then it still wouldn't show up as misfiring. It sounds like you have two separate and distinct problems happening at the same time, one with the motor, and one with the tranny.

This is unnecessary, and we all know it, but again the warranty company wants to go down the list of possibilities starting with the cheapest things first. They aren't being unreasonable. However, no mechanic would think for 2 minutes that this would have anything to do with the car's behavior once it's warmed up. Unless the W211 is different from my experience, the secondary air system usually operates for the first few minutes the car is running and warming up, after that it has no bearing or effect on anything.

Well. You have two ways to handle it. You can say "look, the car has X number of problems, out of which only Y are covered by the warranty. So the non-warranty problems aren't your business, and it's my position that they're unconnected to the warranty issues. I now want the warranty issues fixed, regardless of everything else". They might play ball, but probably won't. You could sue them and probably win.

Option 2 is, fix all of it. You're going to have to fix whatever's wrong sooner or later anyway, it's not the worst thing that could happen. The air injection mod has nothing to do with the car's operating behavior when warmed up, so you wouldn't be unreasonable in refusing to do that.

Yacht Master

Take it to the MB dealer, show them your warranty. Tell the dealer to fix what they can under warranty, do not approve/sign an open work order.
You may find a sensor or other simple fix for the misfire, then your trans might start acting correctly. Sounds to me like misfire makes trans go in to limp mode.

Dogshine

[QUOTE=e55 baller;ahem
[/QUOTE]

hmm

e55 baller

[QUOTE=CWW;3409154]All they're trying to do is go down the list of potential causes, starting with the cheapest possibilities first. It's the same thing you would do if you were paying for it yourself. Annoying? Yes. Unreasonable? Probably not. No. The misfiring has nothing whatsoever to do with the transmission. Even if something in the tranny somehow causes the car to think it's exceeding the torque limit at partial throttle, then it still wouldn't show up as misfiring. It sounds like you have two separate and distinct problems happening at the same time, one with the motor, and one with the tranny.



Interesting, I didn't know that this would be the case. And I do agree the process that they are going through is not unreasonable to determine the root cause. My car is under a bumper to bumper coverage with everything under warranty EXCEPT the emissions system and standard wear items (brakes, rotors, etc...).

CWW

Yeah, I think there may be two unrelated problems, or, like YachtMaster posted, the problems with the engine could be causing the tranny to seem like it's acting up. But I just don't see any possible way that a tranny malfunction could ever cause an engine misfire...

AZIPOD

Hey there. Sorry to hear about your warranty issue. I would go through the troubleshooting, tear-down process to collect as much facts as possible.

If at the end, the facts are on your side, I would pressure the warranty company to pay this through a demand letter. If you are still unable to resolve it, go to small claims court. It's quick and easy. You may want pay your 20 year ASE experience mechanic with you or at least have him provide a written declaration as to the facts of the case.

Your mentioned that you have done this in the past, so you should be quite familar with the process. Unfortunately, these things happen with a "Service contract."

I recently went through an issue with the warranty company, but not involving a coverage issue. Long story short, after numerous demands letter, which went ignored, I went ahead and filed small claims IN MY VENUE. They did not show and I obtained a default judgment. Sent them the judgment and they paid.

InTheBenz0

what aftermarket warranty company is it???!

V12Godspeed

^^ Please tell me it's not Daimler..LOL...

JBFMCAR

Yeah no kidding i hope its not i want to get that warranty maybe.

siswati

Honestly, and with all due respect, E55baller, I think that you will find very strong language in your warranty contract about maintaining the car in the as-factory-built state. In other words I am sure it will exclude mods of any type.

Personally I think that expecting a warranty company to fix a vehicle that has been modified (and which mods certainly can impact the lifespan/performance of said transmission) to be disingenious at best, and possibly criminal at worst.

If you cannot declare openly to the warranty company the mods on the your car, it is unreasonable to expect that they should be responsible for the warranty. The cost of the warranty is based on conformance with the T&C of the warranty contract.

Moving the parameters outside the T&C of the contract would have an enourmous impact on the cost of the warranty, and would in all probability make it unaffordable.

In one of my businesses, I have been struggling with customers who have modified my machines and are now expecting my company to warranty failures of components affected by these mods. So far, and unfortunately at great expense to my company, none of these claims have prevailed, but if I had to include the cost of potential warranty claims affected by mods to the selling price of my machines, no one would afford them. Therefore the strict language in the warranty T&C. I have no problem warrantying any component that fails during normal use during the warranty period. That cost is built into the machine.

Just my $0.02. Flame suit on. Fire at will!!!

CWW

You've got a valid point siswati, I don't think anyone is going to argue that.

The problem comes when warranty companies use mods as an excuse to not cover an obviously-unrelated failure that they would otherwise have to pay for.

Like Skeeter, when his subframe started breaking apart, and MBUSA denied his warranty claim because he had a renntech pulley that the MB dealer sold him in the first place. Do you think that was reasonable, when multiple stock cars had encountered the exact same failure?

You just get onto a slippery slope with this stuff, and the warranty people seize at any excuse to deny a claim. So it's easier to just avoid getting into the argument with them in the first place, which is all the OP in this thread is really trying to do.

AZIPOD

In your situation, it appears that you denied your customer's claim, because you know for a fact that his modification to the machine was what caused the failure.

Your are absolutely correct. If the failure was due to the modification, then the warranty for that piece of failed component should be void.

However, I believe we can all agree that it is not viewed highly with a company or a dealer who denies coverage for some component only on the basis that some other component in the car was modified, without establishment the relation between the two.

Many years ago, I had contacts with an individual who experienced a transmission failure on his Acura and had it towed into the dealer. The dealer refused to fix the transmission because the customer had 16-inch wheels on the car (upgraded from 15"). The dealer argued that the failure of the transmission was due to the upgraded wheels/tires.

The victim (hehe) took the car back to an indy shopped, had the transmission tore down, had a transmission expert come by to examine the parts and determine the failure, had him document and produced the findings through a written report. Long story short, after tearing down the transmission, the failure was not related to the wheels. The customer then fixed the car out of his own pocket, and took Acura to small claims court, showed the judge the teardown findings, won a judgment for the full statutory limit because the judge was so disgusted at Acura's conduct.

The most ironic part about this? The very same dealer who denied coverage due to the customers upgraded wheels actually sold the same size wheels/tires to this very same car as an upgrade option!