Strange power loss ...
05-02-2009, 08:52 AM
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CLS55 AMG 030
Strange power loss ...
Was showing the new (to me) car to a friend last night. Nothing too crazy, just out for a drive.
2 things are happening.
First, while getting onto the highway (Making a right onto the on ramp) I gas it about 3/4 for a little wheel spin (ESP OFF, MANUAL MODE, 1st GEAR, SPORT II) and I get acceleration not unlike my F250.
No wheel spin what so ever, no ferocious take off down the ramp ... just, ordinary.
This repeated itself consistently through out the drive. I could barely get tires to break traction ever. (Again ... esp is off, traffic/warning sign lit constantly, in first gear either sport mode or manual)
The second thing I'm finding is a pretty hard lurch while accelerating slowly, I assume as the supercharger engages. But acceleration after seems weak. The motor itself runs great. Nice and smooth. No funny noises, no smoke. Etc ect. It's doing it in different rev ranges both low and high around 1600 and 3600.
Also, shifts in this 5 speed / speed shift seem lazy/slow. I up shift and 2 seconds later , it listens. Literally that slow. I can shift 2 gears manually in my Porsche in the time it takes for this auto gear box to listen to a manual shift command.
Just to add one more ... the cruise control doesn't work. I push the stalk up or down and I get a flashing ... --- MPH
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to take her in, armed with a little intelligent info.
I know this car should be able to pull harder than it's doing, and I should be able to get the tires to break some traction before the nanny controls come into play.
Even full on straights rolling at 10-50 and hitting the accelerator seemed weak.
2 things are happening.
First, while getting onto the highway (Making a right onto the on ramp) I gas it about 3/4 for a little wheel spin (ESP OFF, MANUAL MODE, 1st GEAR, SPORT II) and I get acceleration not unlike my F250.
No wheel spin what so ever, no ferocious take off down the ramp ... just, ordinary.
This repeated itself consistently through out the drive. I could barely get tires to break traction ever. (Again ... esp is off, traffic/warning sign lit constantly, in first gear either sport mode or manual)
The second thing I'm finding is a pretty hard lurch while accelerating slowly, I assume as the supercharger engages. But acceleration after seems weak. The motor itself runs great. Nice and smooth. No funny noises, no smoke. Etc ect. It's doing it in different rev ranges both low and high around 1600 and 3600.
Also, shifts in this 5 speed / speed shift seem lazy/slow. I up shift and 2 seconds later , it listens. Literally that slow. I can shift 2 gears manually in my Porsche in the time it takes for this auto gear box to listen to a manual shift command.
Just to add one more ... the cruise control doesn't work. I push the stalk up or down and I get a flashing ... --- MPH
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to take her in, armed with a little intelligent info.
I know this car should be able to pull harder than it's doing, and I should be able to get the tires to break some traction before the nanny controls come into play.
Even full on straights rolling at 10-50 and hitting the accelerator seemed weak.
Last edited by JustPete; 05-02-2009 at 08:56 AM.
05-02-2009, 09:03 AM
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CLS55 AMG 030
There's more activity and knowledge in this forum and we share platform and engines so ...
Is that against the rules to ask about the 55AMG motor in this forum if it's not an Eclass?
05-02-2009, 09:08 AM
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05-02-2009, 09:16 AM
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05-02-2009, 09:19 AM
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CLS55 AMG 030
05-02-2009, 09:52 AM
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E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
You will miss shifts hit rev limiter.
The speed of the shifts what is quick?
I get wheel spin in 1,2,3 @wot.
Your IC pump is toast.
With a bad IC pump you have a V6
Not a good idea to turn off ESP when the car is new to you.
The yellow triangle is your wheel spin indicator the ESP
only intervenes when you are, totally un hooked. It actually helps you
drive faster than you can with out it.
Last edited by Yacht Master; 05-02-2009 at 10:00 AM.
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05-02-2009, 10:08 AM
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You will be so much slower in manual.
You will miss shifts hit rev limiter.
The speed of the shifts what is quick?
I get wheel spin in 1,2,3 @wot.
Your IC pump is toast.
With a bad IC pump you have a V6
Not a good idea to turn off ESP when the car is new to you.
The yellow triangle is your wheel spin indicator the ESP
only intervenes when you are, totally un hooked. It actually helps you
drive faster than you can with out it.
You will miss shifts hit rev limiter.
The speed of the shifts what is quick?
I get wheel spin in 1,2,3 @wot.
Your IC pump is toast.
With a bad IC pump you have a V6
Not a good idea to turn off ESP when the car is new to you.
The yellow triangle is your wheel spin indicator the ESP
only intervenes when you are, totally un hooked. It actually helps you
drive faster than you can with out it.
I'm actually a pretty good driver if I do say so myself and I've used to lots of power in different vehicles. I've owned and raced (in one form or another from the track to the strip) many different forms of cars.
In this more muscle car territory ... I've owned and driven hard a '70 442 W30 and a Factory Five Cobra ... both had similar power to this car (Actually seemed like a lot more) and I'm pretty good with controlling that power.
This car seems to have none to control.
Considering I have a warranty til 2013. What would you recommend for fixing this. Another bad MB pump ... or have they fixed this flaw?
05-02-2009, 11:00 AM
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E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
I noticed with it on ... it comes on constantly.
I'm actually a pretty good driver if I do say so myself and I've used to lots of power in different vehicles. I've owned and raced (in one form or another from the track to the strip) many different forms of cars.
In this more muscle car territory ... I've owned and driven hard a '70 442 W30 and a Factory Five Cobra ... both had similar power to this car (Actually seemed like a lot more) and I'm pretty good with controlling that power.
This car seems to have none to control.
Considering I have a warranty til 2013. What would you recommend for fixing this. Another bad MB pump ... or have they fixed this flaw?
I'm actually a pretty good driver if I do say so myself and I've used to lots of power in different vehicles. I've owned and raced (in one form or another from the track to the strip) many different forms of cars.
In this more muscle car territory ... I've owned and driven hard a '70 442 W30 and a Factory Five Cobra ... both had similar power to this car (Actually seemed like a lot more) and I'm pretty good with controlling that power.
This car seems to have none to control.
Considering I have a warranty til 2013. What would you recommend for fixing this. Another bad MB pump ... or have they fixed this flaw?
What tires do you have and what is the inflation.
BTW the ESP never shuts off completely.
What will the car do from a standing start with ESP off and WOT?
It should look like a NHRA event. and should leave at least 100 ft of rubber.
If the pump is bad the ESP light would not come close to coming on.
Going wot on a on ramp will definitely drift the rear out with EPS off.
It is not about driving abilities even F1 has their version of ESP it only makes you faster.
MB has an up dated pump but some have had trouble getting the dealers to change the pump, cause they get no fault code. Must be 300 posts on this subject.
05-02-2009, 11:37 AM
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2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Weak acceleration problems like you descibe sure seem like classic I/C pump going bad on you.
HOWEVER, even with brand new pump, you will feel reduced performance on hot days (you down South/Southwest?) and hard runs on hot days will make the car feel like a Maxima.
Added heat exchanger helps quite a bit.
2) Could be belt. Couple of guys report dramatic increase in performance with simple supercharger belt swap.
3) You under warranty? The hard engagement is common with our cars otherwise I was gonna say supercharger clutch might be going bad on ya. That's a 1000$ part so if under warranty, you could try to push the dealer on it and see if they will swap for ya.
Next step for you honestly is to get a data logger like Auto Enginuity that hooks to a laptop. You plug it in OBDII and read your IAT's. If you are running 170+, there's your answer. Car pulls timing and shuts you down to protect itself.
DO NOT BUY AUTOTAP.....worst datalogger IMO
http://www.autoenginuity.com/
HOWEVER, even with brand new pump, you will feel reduced performance on hot days (you down South/Southwest?) and hard runs on hot days will make the car feel like a Maxima.
Added heat exchanger helps quite a bit.
2) Could be belt. Couple of guys report dramatic increase in performance with simple supercharger belt swap.
3) You under warranty? The hard engagement is common with our cars otherwise I was gonna say supercharger clutch might be going bad on ya. That's a 1000$ part so if under warranty, you could try to push the dealer on it and see if they will swap for ya.
Next step for you honestly is to get a data logger like Auto Enginuity that hooks to a laptop. You plug it in OBDII and read your IAT's. If you are running 170+, there's your answer. Car pulls timing and shuts you down to protect itself.
DO NOT BUY AUTOTAP.....worst datalogger IMO
http://www.autoenginuity.com/
05-02-2009, 01:14 PM
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997.2 GT3
ESP on the E55 is set very conservatively. You can't compare it to the systems deployed in motorsports or even to something like Porsche's PSM. ESP was designed to keep inattentive drivers out of trouble not to maximize performance. Go drive a late-model Porsche, and you'll feel that its PSM lets you have quite a bit of fun before intervening.
05-02-2009, 03:36 PM
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CLS55 AMG 030
[quote=Yacht Master;3501105]
No spinning wheels, when I turn off ESP the ESP light, lights up and stays on constantly. This is even when sitting in park.
The rear tires are Bridgestone Potenza 285/30ZR19 supposedly the match for the 030 performance package. Inflation is the MB/AMG recommended pressure. (Fronts are the same but 35's)
Last night ... no noticeable break in traction and acceleration like a E350.
It did and then it didn't. Some times it does and other times it falls flat on it's face.
Is there a way to tell if I have the updated pump already? It's an '06. Seems like this problem has existed long before then.
If it comes on constantly the wheels are spinning and you have lost traction.
What tires do you have and what is the inflation.
BTW the ESP never shuts off completely.
What will the car do from a standing start with ESP off and WOT?
It should look like a NHRA event. and should leave at least 100 ft of rubber.
What will the car do from a standing start with ESP off and WOT?
It should look like a NHRA event. and should leave at least 100 ft of rubber.
If the pump is bad the ESP light would not come close to coming on.
Going wot on a on ramp will definitely drift the rear out with EPS off.
Going wot on a on ramp will definitely drift the rear out with EPS off.
It is not about driving abilities even F1 has their version of ESP it only makes you faster.
MB has an up dated pump but some have had trouble getting the dealers to change the pump, cause they get no fault code. Must be 300 posts on this subject.
MB has an up dated pump but some have had trouble getting the dealers to change the pump, cause they get no fault code. Must be 300 posts on this subject.
05-02-2009, 03:41 PM
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CLS55 AMG 030
Weak acceleration problems like you descibe sure seem like classic I/C pump going bad on you.
HOWEVER, even with brand new pump, you will feel reduced performance on hot days (you down South/Southwest?) and hard runs on hot days will make the car feel like a Maxima.
Added heat exchanger helps quite a bit.
HOWEVER, even with brand new pump, you will feel reduced performance on hot days (you down South/Southwest?) and hard runs on hot days will make the car feel like a Maxima.
Added heat exchanger helps quite a bit.
2) Could be belt. Couple of guys report dramatic increase in performance with simple supercharger belt swap.
3) You under warranty? The hard engagement is common with our cars otherwise I was gonna say supercharger clutch might be going bad on ya. That's a 1000$ part so if under warranty, you could try to push the dealer on it and see if they will swap for ya.
Next step for you honestly is to get a data logger like Auto Enginuity that hooks to a laptop. You plug it in OBDII and read your IAT's. If you are running 170+, there's your answer. Car pulls timing and shuts you down to protect itself.
DO NOT BUY AUTOTAP.....worst datalogger IMO
http://www.autoenginuity.com/
DO NOT BUY AUTOTAP.....worst datalogger IMO
http://www.autoenginuity.com/
05-02-2009, 03:42 PM
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CLS55 AMG 030
ESP on the E55 is set very conservatively. You can't compare it to the systems deployed in motorsports or even to something like Porsche's PSM. ESP was designed to keep inattentive drivers out of trouble not to maximize performance. Go drive a late-model Porsche, and you'll feel that its PSM lets you have quite a bit of fun before intervening.
05-02-2009, 03:46 PM
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CLS55 AMG 030
Even rolling yesterday around 10mph ... punch it and it was .... not impressive.
I swear it feel like the Supercharger is not running as is being suggested.
It's just very surprising that it would happen so easily. I was not running the car hard and it was cool out.
Seems to me , there's no way I could install a Kleeman K1 Power package as it's set up, it would never work.
I swear it feel like the Supercharger is not running as is being suggested.
It's just very surprising that it would happen so easily. I was not running the car hard and it was cool out.
Seems to me , there's no way I could install a Kleeman K1 Power package as it's set up, it would never work.
05-02-2009, 04:17 PM
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A Johnson CM30 IC pump runs between $150 to $200 including shipping for future reference. I got mine for $170. I have them both for my E55 and SL65 and have had no problem on my E55 (about a year and half after install so far...not installed in my SL65 yet).
Just as a note...Even if you have a fully functional IC pump, heat soak is the 800lb gorilla in the room (even moreso in the SL65). The additional heat or larger and/or exchanger, add'l reservoir, PTE thermostat, and -10c fan mod will go a long way in helping offset heat soak. You can try one or a combination of what is mentioned and it will still help...
Jon
Just as a note...Even if you have a fully functional IC pump, heat soak is the 800lb gorilla in the room (even moreso in the SL65). The additional heat or larger and/or exchanger, add'l reservoir, PTE thermostat, and -10c fan mod will go a long way in helping offset heat soak. You can try one or a combination of what is mentioned and it will still help...
Jon
05-02-2009, 04:20 PM
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CLS55 AMG 030
A Johnson CM30 IC pump runs between $150 to $200 including shipping for future reference. I got mine for $170. I have them both for my E55 and SL65 and have had no problem on my E55 (about a year and half after install so far...not installed in my SL65 yet).
Just as a note...Even if you have a fully functional IC pump, heat soak is the 800lb gorilla in the room (even moreso in the SL65). The additional heat or larger and/or exchanger, add'l reservoir, PTE thermostat, and -10c fan mod will go a long way in helping offset heat soak. You can try one or a combination of what is mentioned and it will still help...
Jon
Just as a note...Even if you have a fully functional IC pump, heat soak is the 800lb gorilla in the room (even moreso in the SL65). The additional heat or larger and/or exchanger, add'l reservoir, PTE thermostat, and -10c fan mod will go a long way in helping offset heat soak. You can try one or a combination of what is mentioned and it will still help...
Jon
Thanks!
05-03-2009, 09:05 AM
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CLS55 AMG 030
Well ... I figured out why the Cruise Control wasn't working.
Turn the ESP off and it refuses to engage CC.
Makes sense.
I think you guys are absolutely right about the heat soak ... Cool day yesterday. Babying the car and every once in a while jumping on her. Strong acceleration.
Have to say though ... I'm surprised the car would be this sensitive to, and poor at managing it's heat production.
So I've tried to do a search on this and I'm not coming up with much. Can anyone point me to some fixes?
Turn the ESP off and it refuses to engage CC.
Makes sense.
I think you guys are absolutely right about the heat soak ... Cool day yesterday. Babying the car and every once in a while jumping on her. Strong acceleration.
Have to say though ... I'm surprised the car would be this sensitive to, and poor at managing it's heat production.
So I've tried to do a search on this and I'm not coming up with much. Can anyone point me to some fixes?
05-03-2009, 09:51 AM
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2005 E55 ///AMG
Well ... I figured out why the Cruise Control wasn't working.
Turn the ESP off and it refuses to engage CC.
Makes sense.
I think you guys are absolutely right about the heat soak ... Cool day yesterday. Babying the car and every once in a while jumping on her. Strong acceleration.
Have to say though ... I'm surprised the car would be this sensitive to, and poor at managing it's heat production.
So I've tried to do a search on this and I'm not coming up with much. Can anyone point me to some fixes?
Turn the ESP off and it refuses to engage CC.
Makes sense.
I think you guys are absolutely right about the heat soak ... Cool day yesterday. Babying the car and every once in a while jumping on her. Strong acceleration.
Have to say though ... I'm surprised the car would be this sensitive to, and poor at managing it's heat production.
So I've tried to do a search on this and I'm not coming up with much. Can anyone point me to some fixes?
All this should be fine unless you decide to upgrade the car's performance with a larger pulley which will require you to also upgrade the heat exchanger.
And whatever you do, make SURE to start a good friendship with your service advisor at whatever dealership you go to. These guys are worth their weight in gold with regards to getting any warranty work done and looking the other way on non-mercedes parts installed.
05-03-2009, 10:16 AM
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CLS55 AMG 030
If you are under warranty which I believe you said you were, then get the dealership to replace your cooling pump with the newer 2007 model. While it is there, have them do the STAR 10* fan mod. I would also suggest picking up a lower temp thermostat from PTE (user here).
All this should be fine unless you decide to upgrade the car's performance with a larger pulley which will require you to also upgrade the heat exchanger.
And whatever you do, make SURE to start a good friendship with your service advisor at whatever dealership you go to. These guys are worth their weight in gold with regards to getting any warranty work done and looking the other way on non-mercedes parts installed.
All this should be fine unless you decide to upgrade the car's performance with a larger pulley which will require you to also upgrade the heat exchanger.
And whatever you do, make SURE to start a good friendship with your service advisor at whatever dealership you go to. These guys are worth their weight in gold with regards to getting any warranty work done and looking the other way on non-mercedes parts installed.
Also ... where does the thermostat go for the IC?
05-03-2009, 05:36 PM
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2004 E55 AMG
When my IC pump was stone dead a couple of weeks ago I was still able to get a couple of 0-100 runs in before the S/C shut down. Two to three minutes of normal driving later it would function normally. If it's not pulling like a train the first time you stand on it after starting the car then something else is wrong.
Also, if you try to engage CC under a certain MPH you will get the --- in the display.
When ESP is switched off the yellow light will come on constantly and stay that way unless you break traction. Then it will FLASH.
Since the car is stock this is not a heat exchanger issue, thermostat, cooling fan issue. There is something wrong with the stock setup and it must be fixed. Maybe your S/C clutch is completely toast??? Mine makes the "squeak" at 64,000 miles, but once it engages it does not slip. Since you have warranty I would take it to the dealer ASAP and complain of a severe lack of power.
Also, if you try to engage CC under a certain MPH you will get the --- in the display.
When ESP is switched off the yellow light will come on constantly and stay that way unless you break traction. Then it will FLASH.
Since the car is stock this is not a heat exchanger issue, thermostat, cooling fan issue. There is something wrong with the stock setup and it must be fixed. Maybe your S/C clutch is completely toast??? Mine makes the "squeak" at 64,000 miles, but once it engages it does not slip. Since you have warranty I would take it to the dealer ASAP and complain of a severe lack of power.
