Lowered the car using washers...
05-10-2009, 05:55 PM
#1
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Lowered the car using washers...
First off I know many will say this isn't the way to do it but it will be done the correct way sooner than later. For now I just wanted to see how they look with the new rims. Ok, now for my question...after I did both sides making sure to use a equal amount of washers on both sides one side sits slightly lower than the other. Both the front and back are higher on the passenger side. By removing a washer up front to make them equal will the back follow? Is there a reason why the back would also be lopsided?
05-12-2009, 07:25 PM
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911's and beyond
they will follow and Mine is the same way untill i offset the washers before. for ref. every washer lowers .25". Did you lower the rear? add washers to the rear sensor it will drop as well to level out.
05-12-2009, 07:34 PM
#3
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keep in mind the sensors are fairly sensative and typical washers will vary in thickness or have burrs and lips that make their overall thickness enequal. i have access to a machine shop so i made exact 1mm washers and the car lowered perfectly.
there's nothing "incorrect" with the washer method. it simply fools the sensors mechanically instead of electronically. and unlike some of the elm's, your oem suspensions/height settings still work afterwards. that's a big plus in my book.
there's nothing "incorrect" with the washer method. it simply fools the sensors mechanically instead of electronically. and unlike some of the elm's, your oem suspensions/height settings still work afterwards. that's a big plus in my book.
05-13-2009, 03:02 PM
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I tried the washer thing also, I used 1 washer on each side and it looks alot better. I started with 2 but decided to go with 1 until I get my new shoes on. Then I might add another.
05-13-2009, 05:27 PM
#6
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keep in mind the sensors are fairly sensative and typical washers will vary in thickness or have burrs and lips that make their overall thickness enequal. i have access to a machine shop so i made exact 1mm washers and the car lowered perfectly.
there's nothing "incorrect" with the washer method. it simply fools the sensors mechanically instead of electronically. and unlike some of the elm's, your oem suspensions/height settings still work afterwards. that's a big plus in my book.
there's nothing "incorrect" with the washer method. it simply fools the sensors mechanically instead of electronically. and unlike some of the elm's, your oem suspensions/height settings still work afterwards. that's a big plus in my book.
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05-13-2009, 07:12 PM
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2015 S212
Failure form lowering too much is the same with ELM or washers.
05-13-2009, 07:13 PM
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2015 S212
You can either modify the hole and make it a slit for the bolt to slide in or just take a pair of pliers and bend the plate until you are happy. Very little makes a big difference.
05-13-2009, 07:18 PM
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E55 AMG
Yes it is. The added risk in using the washers is simply that you have messed with that nut and it could work its way loose. If that happens, then the Airmatic would fail. If it happens at speed, that can be scary. I haven't heard of anyone doing that in years. By now, most that do the lowering mechanically know to get the bolt on there snug.
Failure form lowering too much is the same with ELM or washers.
Failure form lowering too much is the same with ELM or washers.
05-13-2009, 08:55 PM
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1992 Mercedes-Benz 500E (W124-036), 2004 W211 E55
I had a friend cut me some spacers (for the front) on his CNC lathe. The size I used is 3mm thickness, 6.5mm ID, and 12.5mm OD. The picture is not great due to the shadows.
05-13-2009, 10:53 PM
#18
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Quick question. Should the ride height vary after adjusting the height in the rear? Last night I had about a finger distance between the tire and fender, this afternoon I had 1 1/2-2...
. I thought with this mechanical adjustment the height shouldn't vary? Both times it was measured in my garage on a level surface. Not sure if this is normal or not but I definitely don't like the look of almost a 2 finger gap between my tire and fender.
. I thought with this mechanical adjustment the height shouldn't vary? Both times it was measured in my garage on a level surface. Not sure if this is normal or not but I definitely don't like the look of almost a 2 finger gap between my tire and fender.
05-13-2009, 11:00 PM
#19
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I tried to find the post again where the information was found but had no luck. If you do a search for "links" you'll have plenty of reading material. Sorry, I'll still try looking for the link and post it.
05-13-2009, 11:58 PM
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2015 S212
Quick question. Should the ride height vary after adjusting the height in the rear? Last night I had about a finger distance between the tire and fender, this afternoon I had 1 1/2-2.... I thought with this mechanical adjustment the height shouldn't vary? Both times it was measured in my garage on a level surface. Not sure if this is normal or not but I definitely don't like the look of almost a 2 finger gap between my tire and fender.
. I thought with this mechanical adjustment the height shouldn't vary? Both times it was measured in my garage on a level surface. Not sure if this is normal or not but I definitely don't like the look of almost a 2 finger gap between my tire and fender.
05-14-2009, 03:40 PM
#21
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I'm not looking at arguing, and I'm sorry Alan for not staying away even though you asked the nay-sayers to stay out. I did stay out at first, but with all the responses basically calling people who doubt the links/washers crazy - I have to quote myself:
-m
Ok I'm going to write this one more time.
Yes - links/washers/lowering modules all fool the factory computers. The problem with fooling the factory computer is that you inhibit it significantly. Let's say the factory allows for a value as low as 2 - this value corresponds to that suspension component's height. If you are conditioning the signal so that when it sends to the ECU the value of 2, it's really 1.5, you are essentially eliminating a lot of the precautionary/safety mechanisms built into the car that allow it to properly monitor the suspension components. We've all seen pictures of the RED SUSPENSION TOO LOW warning, as obviously MB knows it is a very dangerous condition, yet with lowering links most cars will never be able to see that warning because the ECU will not see the actual voltage values for the suspension components.
Furthermore, when lowering via STAR/SDS - you do not condition the signal. What you are doing when going in to the SDS is lowering the value to the lowest value allowed by the ECU. No, this does not allow you to slam the car to the point of having the wheels tucked into the fender wells, but our suspension systems were never designed for that kind of geometry to begin with. So in addition to staying within factory specifications - you also still retain all the factory diagnostic/adjusting/monitoring functions using the ACTUAL values, and not "conditioned ones".
Now I know SDS is not perfect either. Sometimes it doesn't stick, sometimes it's wacky, and anytime you modify factory settings you are risking failure. I simply think it is the least of 3 evils, especially given what modules cost as compared to what lowering via SDS typically runs.
You guys drive $100,000 cars. In my opinion, you should modify them properly. I understand not everyone has access to someone who can do lowering VIA SDS, but at least then use a module because it is an active suspension system that will at least so some adjusting as it sees it necessary, and it has tuner R&D behind it.
Just my $.02
Yes - links/washers/lowering modules all fool the factory computers. The problem with fooling the factory computer is that you inhibit it significantly. Let's say the factory allows for a value as low as 2 - this value corresponds to that suspension component's height. If you are conditioning the signal so that when it sends to the ECU the value of 2, it's really 1.5, you are essentially eliminating a lot of the precautionary/safety mechanisms built into the car that allow it to properly monitor the suspension components. We've all seen pictures of the RED SUSPENSION TOO LOW warning, as obviously MB knows it is a very dangerous condition, yet with lowering links most cars will never be able to see that warning because the ECU will not see the actual voltage values for the suspension components.
Furthermore, when lowering via STAR/SDS - you do not condition the signal. What you are doing when going in to the SDS is lowering the value to the lowest value allowed by the ECU. No, this does not allow you to slam the car to the point of having the wheels tucked into the fender wells, but our suspension systems were never designed for that kind of geometry to begin with. So in addition to staying within factory specifications - you also still retain all the factory diagnostic/adjusting/monitoring functions using the ACTUAL values, and not "conditioned ones".
Now I know SDS is not perfect either. Sometimes it doesn't stick, sometimes it's wacky, and anytime you modify factory settings you are risking failure. I simply think it is the least of 3 evils, especially given what modules cost as compared to what lowering via SDS typically runs.
You guys drive $100,000 cars. In my opinion, you should modify them properly. I understand not everyone has access to someone who can do lowering VIA SDS, but at least then use a module because it is an active suspension system that will at least so some adjusting as it sees it necessary, and it has tuner R&D behind it.
Just my $.02
05-14-2009, 04:43 PM
#22
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Initially I planned on having my car lowered through SDS because my intentions are not to SLAM the car but to have a finger width all the way around. From what I was told Star could do this and still be in it's limits. The downside...I heard many people have had trouble with Star - keeping the height, dealership resetting, and a few other problems I've read about. It seems like it has become enough of a problem that Steve from MBenzNL stop doing it. This is why I decided to go with the OEM adjustable Links and not Star.
Alan
05-14-2009, 05:44 PM
#23
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No problem Marcus your input is always welcomed.
Initially I planned on having my car lowered through SDS because my intentions are not to SLAM the car but to have a finger width all the way around. From what I was told Star could do this and still be in it's limits. The downside...I heard many people have had trouble with Star - keeping the height, dealership resetting, and a few other problems I've read about. It seems like it has become enough of a problem that Steve from MBenzNL stop doing it. This is why I decided to go with the OEM adjustable Links and not Star.
Alan
Initially I planned on having my car lowered through SDS because my intentions are not to SLAM the car but to have a finger width all the way around. From what I was told Star could do this and still be in it's limits. The downside...I heard many people have had trouble with Star - keeping the height, dealership resetting, and a few other problems I've read about. It seems like it has become enough of a problem that Steve from MBenzNL stop doing it. This is why I decided to go with the OEM adjustable Links and not Star.
Alan
I've heard of the problems as well. I've had my E55 lowered for 2 years now and haven't had any problems - but there are people with washers, links, and ELMs that haven't had problems either. The truth is, like I said, there are potential problems with ALL the methods of lowering BUT I'd rather have my car go back to stock height than blow out a couple of struts (as some forum members have had happen with washers/links). The problems with STAR seem to be pale in comparison to what others have had (although there haven't been much problems with the ELMs)
The proper way to lower a car is with new suspension, that is really the bottom line - all the methods we are using here are really not the best way to go about doing that. However, without the appropriate suspension upgrades available, we kind of have to make due with what is out there.
Good luck,
-m
05-14-2009, 06:58 PM
#24
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Alan,
I've heard of the problems as well. I've had my E55 lowered for 2 years now and haven't had any problems - but there are people with washers, links, and ELMs that haven't had problems either. The truth is, like I said, there are potential problems with ALL the methods of lowering BUT I'd rather have my car go back to stock height than blow out a couple of struts (as some forum members have had happen with washers/links). The problems with STAR seem to be pale in comparison to what others have had (although there haven't been much problems with the ELMs)
The proper way to lower a car is with new suspension, that is really the bottom line - all the methods we are using here are really not the best way to go about doing that. However, without the appropriate suspension upgrades available, we kind of have to make due with what is out there.
Good luck,
-m
I've heard of the problems as well. I've had my E55 lowered for 2 years now and haven't had any problems - but there are people with washers, links, and ELMs that haven't had problems either. The truth is, like I said, there are potential problems with ALL the methods of lowering BUT I'd rather have my car go back to stock height than blow out a couple of struts (as some forum members have had happen with washers/links). The problems with STAR seem to be pale in comparison to what others have had (although there haven't been much problems with the ELMs)
The proper way to lower a car is with new suspension, that is really the bottom line - all the methods we are using here are really not the best way to go about doing that. However, without the appropriate suspension upgrades available, we kind of have to make due with what is out there.
Good luck,
-m
Maybe some people could post up problems that occurred with each method if any.
05-14-2009, 09:00 PM
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‘11 SLS, ‘19 GT63 s Edition One
A little bit OT but I think related.
I put Pirelli PZero Nero's on the car. They have a taller sidewall than PZero Rossos. And now the car sits a bit higher than before. Could this be because Airmatic is sensing that the sidewalls just a tiny bit taller? or ?? What else could it be?
I put Pirelli PZero Nero's on the car. They have a taller sidewall than PZero Rossos. And now the car sits a bit higher than before. Could this be because Airmatic is sensing that the sidewalls just a tiny bit taller? or ?? What else could it be?
