Exotic-metal55

Built a new block, that I bought from a forum member in "ready to build parts" condition, as he said. Forum member had block Nickasil coated and honed back to spec. Had Custom forged Wiseco pistons made from stock pistons . Crank was cleaned and checked for straightness . He owns a performance shop and worked with both the coating company and Wiseco for years. Also worked with top guided and bottom guided motors. I was leery of the Wisco pistons but the sales story was strong and backed up by a top notch AMG friend of his. I do prefer Nikasil coatings but again getting parts to match all this can also be a challenge.

A MB dealer was kind enough to build this custom motor but just had pistons checked and file fitted to block. Block was built and installed. Ok, so far so good. I then was told that the Wiseco pistons I wanted installed were loose on the rods and they were not familiar with aftermarket specs. I then called Wisco and they said they did not know it was a top guided motor and made the pistons WRONG! I emailed several people involved in this deal , called and emailed the forum member for help with Wiseco but my emails and calls were ignored.

Just needed help, since I did not have a purchase ticket or knew them as well ...Wiseco was helpfull with info but not with correcting the problem or even helping with shims.. I am sure the forum member could have helped. Could have saved me the trouble of having the motor pulled out again and have custom shims made. This cost me an extra week and another 4k!!! That is BS!!!

Well , the car is back together and running strong now. Not sure how long the Wisco`s will last but hope all the other specs and rigged shims hold up..

I also had to have my tune taken out, to get this install done. So that tune is also floating out there in cyberland

Did get to see two brand new SL65 blacks at the dealer!

I like the nikasil bore but next time , I am going with JE pistons, unless the European pistons get in line..

Going to have my other blocked inspected to be sleeved and stroked for the next build.

Just a few updates, in case I was missed..

hooleyboy

That sucks what happened to you. So I'm guessing you have another block? being that your stock block is still kicking around? Might be time after you get some miles and the cash flow back up to build another more with say Mahle pistions or something like that?

Honestly I know exactly how you feel. I know that feeling in the gut when something bad happens to your car and puts a damper on your planes. When I was doing my supercharger mod we were in the home stretch when I found out my supercharger was warped! Its a crappy feeling, so I'm feeling for you brother.

CWW

What forum member is this? If they sell stuff around here even semi-regularly, you would save other people a big headache by just saying who it is.

itsmeek

Agree with CWW, who did you buy this from?

PTE

I admit I was very late in responding to Exotic Metal55 pm to me . I travel a lot outside of the U.S. , Still no excuse . I responded with my dealings with Wiscao, As I wrote in an earlier thread. When I saw they offered to have shims installed , to guide / align the rods. I had to made a public response. And what I said was only 1/2 of the Issues I found with Wisco. They may make good Motorcycle engine pistons. But I would never use what they have sent or built for me lately.

I did not ever use those pistons Or Build am Mercedes motor with Wisco Pistons . Nore did I Build the above mention Mercedes engine ! I have used only Genuine AMG Pistons in my 4 motor rebuilds over the last 3 years. Hope this helps clear thing up with _PTEngineering

Exotic-metal55

Here is the so called Wiseco build sheet. This spec sheet failed to give the crucial inside dome play for the rod to piston clearance. Of course, they seemed to not be able to concieve that some motors are top driven. Half the motor cycle pistons they make are for top driven bikes..

PTE, how does the deck thickness compare to your spec ? They show .475? I have stock pistons that I can also saw in half.

BlownV8

Nikasil has some potential issues too. Good stuff if done correctly. IMHO, you are better off boring and honing the cylinders correctly, with a Sunnen machine, and going with a Mahle or Kolbenschmidt pistons that are made to work with your cylinder bores.

Exotic-metal55

The block was already re-finished (with Nikasil) by this company http://www.mt-llc.com/About/about.html when I bought it. The car is back together and running for the second time. I am I am pretty much commited to what I have right now. Most of the whole rotating assembly is stock AMG parts and built by MB. The piston, rings and bore coatings are the aftermarket parts.. Oh yeah, and the custom bronze thrust washers that had to be made to make the pistons be top guided.

Exotic-metal55

The motor was purchased out this thread from last Summer. " Ready to assemble".

https://mbworld.org/forums/engine-pe...rans-sale.html

Marcus Frost

Exotic,

May I ask why you went through all the hassle of getting a fully built 55 motor? I've been reading about your troubles and am curious as to why you would undertake such a time/money consuming path unless you have something big planned that would have pushed the envelope for the stock motor.

-m

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

I'm so confused as to why anybody would want to do this unless it was to make a monster.

transferred

+1....for this kinda $$, it's 65 time...

Exotic-metal55

This was not my original plan for the car or motor. My plan was to have a 10 second car by this fall. I had a lot of room still on the tune HP gains to be had, been working on stall converter, headers and few other mods. If that did not get me there, then had a great head porter in the wings, that would have got me over the hump.. Simple sound plan.. Right?

WELL, to my huge suprise, my supercharger rotors came part and threw metal all in the engine. Big mess but I will do another thread on this , after I get all my pictures together. Anyway, I needed an engine to get me back on tract.

Oh yeah, at the same time , I had been looking for a CL65 to start another build on. Had to put that on hold for the moment, as this plan became complex.

blackbenzz

What condition are they in?

Exotic-metal55

I have 3 pistons in my office in great shape, that alledgedly have 37K on them. Two more I sent to a tuner that ended up not needing them (may still have those) and 7 possible good ones in my old block. Will get those back next week and inspect. I also have 7-8 good rods and a crank.

Exotic-metal55

One of the heads , after metal went all through it.

If you look at the pic on the right; it looks like two eyes with the mouth open saying " OMG!"

BlownV8

Dude, that will buff right out.........

Exotic-metal55

Thanks! That is what I thought. Plan to take them to the head porter soon.

Did more searching on Wiseco and it seems many performance cars/shops are using them now. BMW, Porsche, Etc. etc. The domestic guys also speak highly of them. Of course cut backs could effect current and future quality for anyone. They are a lot lighter than stock pistons. Skirt coating is nice verses stock but not sure about all the other details that go into piston design. Ring size, land thickness and even dome thickness. I mic-ed what I could before sending everything to MB and they seeemed to replicate external dims well. I think the Wiseco set ran about 2K but not sure exactly.

It is all in and running now, so it will be a test mule..Not the first time or last time, that I have been in that position..

Still curious who is running the other set that was made for a bottom guided motor off the same top guide specs of our 55`s.

I put an E55 block in and also learned that there are a lot of differences. Oil pump and pans , just to mention a few.

I guess I have a CL E55 now.

NitrogenBalance

looks like the inside of a rock tumbler

So there is enough room to open that combustion chamber enough to smooth out? I would have never thought. Only one cylinder ate the metal pieces also?

I feel for you as I blew a hole through the bottom of my motor last week..

Exotic-metal55

I am going to let the head porter make sure everything is repairable, before embarking on porting/cams. The valve seats are scored but look like they can be fixed.

Every chamber on both heads had metal in them and ALL chambers have some marks in them. The real bad chamber , just exploded. Valve gone, piston gone and all went through the side of block. 48K, gone in a second! There was even metal and motor oil blown all the way up into the blower.. Not sure how metal and oil went up hill, but it was definatly motor oil.. The blower oil stayed sealed.

PS, took blower oil out and that stuff really stinks! Use gloves, if you ever mess with that oil..

Nitrogen Balance, what you going to do about your block?

My dealer has been putting 200-300 miles on the car and should be ready Tuesday for pick-up..


I weighed a stock piston and it looks like the forged Wiseco set is about .70 ounce lighter per cylinder.

NitrogenBalance

I would like to go the same route and build up the bottom end as you did but don't think I have the time or dough at the moment. Closest thing I may do is upgrade to the 55K motor. Either way I think its gonna be something already together I can drop in.

My explosion wasn't nearly as great as yours. I sent you a PM with some pics though for entertainment.

Yacht Master

Most superchargers and associated drive gears have a failure rate that is expressed as a bathtub curve, in that if it runs the first 20 hours with out failure it will most likely run 2000 hours no problem. The wild card in the equation is FOD foreign object damage or a back fire. I am interested in the pics of the SC and the inercooler, how much metal/plastic can make it through the cooler? Looks like the EX valve dropped on its own, and danced around till it found the exit. I look forward to your next thread Exotic, I hope things take a turn for the good.

Exotic-metal55

I will get everything together and post pictures. I have to admit, I have been sloppy with the crime scene. Some parts at home, some at the dealer and some taken apart and cleaned to re-use. It was not a fun project, so did not really feel motivated to turn it into a documentary.. Should be enough to tell what happened.

There was about a 1/2 cup motor oil on the by-bass valve side of the intercooler and 3 tablespoons of ground up metal. The blower side of the intercooler was also full of ground up metal and long shavings. Oil was in the throttle body and air tubes.

I think the sodium filled exhaust valve broke , when it closed on a chunk of metal but not sure if the blower dumbed the metal or if piston came apart .. Rod was NOT bent but valve and piston parts broke upper oil pan and block.

I agree, not sure if metal can get through the intercooler but there is metal on both sides of brick, in every cylinder and air tubes.. It seems like lower engine parts came up hill but have not heard of that.

I have rotors out of blower and they are nasty!

PTE

A lot of the blower impeller broke pieces seem to get blown back out the the air inlet side , then the low speed bypass air valve lets it into the intake track behind the condenser. Usually #4 or #8 end cylinders take a hit of the blower pieces. On the 2 I fixed . it happen shortly after the Air filters were changed. Inside the Bellows that connects the air box to intake Y , is a steel oval shaped support ring. This keeps the bellows from collapsing under high airflow vaccum. This ring is set in a molded in groove. And can sometimes get dislodged when servicing the air filters. It will not pass through a 74 MM throttle body . But surely go through a 80MM or larger throttle body. I would check out those bellows !! Cheers _PTEngineering

Exotic-metal55

PTE, thank you for the advice. Makes a lot of sense. I just ran out and checked my 80mm tubes and both rings are still in them.

Number 8 , is the cylinder that went. Drivers side head and pistons are in good shape but passenger side all have metal in-bedded in pistons/chambers.

Blower rotors are chipped at the base and teflon all shreaded off.

Just recieved my old block parts back and the number 8 rod was pretty bent. I correct my earlier statement.

Wish i knew you built motors, I would have shipped it all to you..