Go Back  MBWorld.org Forums > Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles > E55 AMG, E63 AMG, E43AMG (W210, W211, W212,W213) > W211 AMG
Heat Wrapping Intake Tubes - Does Work!! (Supporting Data and Pictures) >

Heat Wrapping Intake Tubes - Does Work!! (Supporting Data and Pictures)

Notices
W211 AMG Discuss the W211 AMG's such as the E55 and the E63
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Heat Wrapping Intake Tubes - Does Work!! (Supporting Data and Pictures)

 
Old 08-18-2009, 05:58 PM
  #51  
Senior Member
 
Nait Sirhc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2002 BMW M5, 1992 AWD DSM, 1988 Yamaha FZR1000
Wrapped one of mine in the gold wrap today... ran out so have to order more.

Nait Sirhc is offline  
Old 08-18-2009, 06:58 PM
  #52  
SPONSOR
 
hooleyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Glendale Arizona
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
R.I.P C55./ 2005 SL55
That DEI intake wrap thing looks kinda cool, NPI. A cheaper thing you could do is get some heat tape and try that. It may not look great in the end though. I think you cant get that stuff at Home Depot too. IDK?

Also to confirm these test results. I too wrapped my intake tube on my car and seen a reduction in temp. So it does do something.
hooleyboy is offline  
Old 08-18-2009, 07:00 PM
  #53  
Former Vendor of MBWorld
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,935
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
AMG
Its funny how after 3 pages of posts not a single person has mentioned that this is a completely pointless modification. The airbox & intake tubes are both made of heat insulating plastic, yet sitting right below them is the massive METAL intake manifold. It doesn't matter how much lower the temps are going through the intake tubes & airbox, it is irrelevant because as soon as that air passes through the large maze of a metal intake manifold (which is essentially a ginormous heat sink) then this is completely pointless.

The only real way to lower intake temps is to have the entire intake manifold removed and heated in a true heat resistant cured ceramic coating (not just ceramic based paint). All this is a complete waste of time & money. You are better of ceramic coating your stock intake & exhaust manifolds to control under hood temps than to do things like this. These are ineffective band-aid solutions at best. I do not mean to be blunt, just being honest.
AMS Performance is offline  
Old 08-18-2009, 07:12 PM
  #54  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Riverwoods, Il
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2005 E55 AMG
Pwnt ^^ I thought this was the real ams > http://www.amsperformance.com/
GRAFH is offline  
Old 08-18-2009, 07:13 PM
  #55  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
jturkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Valves of Houston
Posts: 4,852
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
02 C32 AMG
Originally Posted by AMS Performance View Post
Its funny how after 3 pages of posts not a single person has mentioned that this is a completely pointless modification. The airbox & intake tubes are both made of heat insulating plastic, yet sitting right below them is the massive METAL intake manifold. It doesn't matter how much lower the temps are going through the intake tubes & airbox, it is irrelevant because as soon as that air passes through the large maze of a metal intake manifold (which is essentially a ginormous heat sink) then this is completely pointless.

The only real way to lower intake temps is to have the entire intake manifold removed and heated in a true heat resistant cured ceramic coating (not just ceramic based paint). All this is a complete waste of time & money. You are better of ceramic coating your stock intake & exhaust manifolds to control under hood temps than to do things like this. These are ineffective band-aid solutions at best. I do not mean to be blunt, just being honest.
interesting. i thought the plastic would still pick up some of the heat from the engine bay just by sitting there. but you're saying it doesnt matter? perhaps only if the intake manifolds are ceramic coated, then such a wrap mod would be beneficial?

what kind of temp differences can you see with this ceramic coating? and who can do this kind of stuff? cost?
jturkel is offline  
Old 08-18-2009, 07:19 PM
  #56  
Senior Member
 
Nait Sirhc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2002 BMW M5, 1992 AWD DSM, 1988 Yamaha FZR1000
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't these pipes lead to the TB which then leads to the S/C, at which point the air is intercooled, and THEN into the intake manifold? The air will be heated inside one engine component or another regardless, but I don't think that having lower air temps at the beginning of the intake tract is "pointless".
Nait Sirhc is offline  
Old 08-18-2009, 08:01 PM
  #57  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 13 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
I think the point is that a 10 degree difference in IAT while the hood is open and the car is at a standstill is not going to mean much after its been compressed and then intercooled.

One might argue that more important is cooling off the intercooler fluid.

This is a placebo mod.
Quadcammer is offline  
Old 08-18-2009, 08:15 PM
  #58  
SPONSOR
 
hooleyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Glendale Arizona
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
R.I.P C55./ 2005 SL55
The question is: Is this relative? will a 13 degree drop in temps = a 13 degree drop across the board? Isolated cold air intakes have been around for a long time and basically have proven to work by keeping the hot engine away from the intake.

The cooler you can get the air entering the engine the better performance. I think we all know that.

I tend to think that keeping the heat out and in turn lowering the air temp in the tubes will result in a temp drop at the manifold side. Making the temp drop relative across the board.

Unless the engine quickly heats the air entering, to the engine's internal ambient temp or the max temp the engine can heat the air.

I try to related to.. Why my AC in my house sucks on hot days and work better on cooler days.

Maybe a hair dryer test is in order. Try and read the air temp coming out of a hair dryer out side on a hot day. Then do the same test in an Air conditioned room. Is there any diff in exiting air temps from hot air outside or cooler air on the inside?

I think we need Mr Wizard for this, but sadly he died.


Last edited by hooleyboy; 08-18-2009 at 08:18 PM.
hooleyboy is offline  
Old 08-18-2009, 09:03 PM
  #59  
PLATINUM SPONSOR
Thread Starter
 
shardul's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 11,366
Liked 160 Times in 135 Posts
2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
Originally Posted by AMS Performance View Post
Its funny how after 3 pages of posts not a single person has mentioned that this is a completely pointless modification. The airbox & intake tubes are both made of heat insulating plastic, yet sitting right below them is the massive METAL intake manifold. It doesn't matter how much lower the temps are going through the intake tubes & airbox, it is irrelevant because as soon as that air passes through the large maze of a metal intake manifold (which is essentially a ginormous heat sink) then this is completely pointless.

The only real way to lower intake temps is to have the entire intake manifold removed and heated in a true heat resistant cured ceramic coating (not just ceramic based paint). All this is a complete waste of time & money. You are better of ceramic coating your stock intake & exhaust manifolds to control under hood temps than to do things like this. These are ineffective band-aid solutions at best. I do not mean to be blunt, just being honest.
apparently it works and helps a bit because I have spoken to Victor from VRP and he has also wrapped a lot of stuff in his engine bay. IMO i would think he has a little bit more experience........................
__________________
E55
Preferred Contact method PM or email [email protected]
Instagram @shardul_amg @ultimatepd
NO TEXT MESSAGES THEY WILL NOT BE REPLIED TO
PLEASE DO NOT SEND MULTIPLE EMAILS /PM WITH THE SAME SUBJECT MATTER. ALL EMAILS / PM WILL BE RESPONDED TO WITHIN 24 HRS.

Last edited by shardul; 08-18-2009 at 09:10 PM.
shardul is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:02 AM
  #60  
Former Vendor of MBWorld
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,935
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
AMG
No,

It won't do anything, its a great gimic but it won't do anything on either NA or FI cars. For NA cars, the intake manifold is after the throttle body & airbox sitting right on top of the engine so all the engine's heat gets absorbed by the intake manifold, so even if the air is coming in 10 degress (or whatever) cooler, its not going to make a difference once it exits the intake manifold (it will still be the same temp). Plastic does a much better job of insulating from engine bay heat than bare metal so the Achilles's heel in the intake system is the uncoated stock intake manifold.

Ceramic coatings will reduce the heat typically by 80-95% depending on the type of coating. In fact, if you coat both your intake & exhaust manifolds, your underhood temps will drop drastically, but you will still have some head (waste heat coming from radiator and a small amount from the motor itself). Also, it is VERY important to differentiate between ceramic based paint, and a true high temp ceramic coating. True high temp ceramic coatings are expensive and difficult to apply without the right machinery. Furthermore, they require a full curing process to be strong which is both materials, labor & energy intensive. There are lots of headers out there being marketed as "Ceramic coated headers" that are really just non-stainless headers with ceramic paint on them (Ebay as well as some higher end header manufacturers). You can easily spot these fakes by their weak fragile coatings which you can scratch off the coating with your bare finger nails, or simply by handling it (etc). A true high temp ceramic coating is chemically bonded to the surface of the header and is very strong. However, even these coatings cannot prevent rust all together (though they do prolong the life of a mild steel header substantially more than ceramic paint coatings).

Heres a rough estimate just to give you an idea, temps measured 1 inch above header surface while engine is running:



On FI cars, It makes even less of an impact since any cold air will be heated tremendously due to the compression of the air alone. On FI cars the intercooler is what matters most, the temp of the air coming in the intake itself really doesn't have any impact, its cooling the air post compression that matters most.

My point is not that cold air does not help, obviously it does. My point is that the plastic airtubes & plastic airbox are NOT the problem, its all the other components after them that matter. Wasting time wrapping the plastic components and doing nothing to all the much more heat conductive metal components post airbox isn't going to help you at all. That's like buying 3 McDonald's Big Macs w/ 2 fries and then ordering a Diet Coke... gimme a break lol, the diet coke isn't doing anything. Always address the low hanging fruit first... then move on to the next component.

Last edited by AMS Performance; 08-19-2009 at 01:19 AM.
AMS Performance is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:09 AM
  #61  
SPONSOR
 
hooleyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Glendale Arizona
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
R.I.P C55./ 2005 SL55
Originally Posted by AMS Performance View Post
Always address the low hanging fruit first... then move on to the next component.
I'm telling my girlfriend that!
hooleyboy is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:19 AM
  #62  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
jturkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Valves of Houston
Posts: 4,852
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
02 C32 AMG
Originally Posted by AMS Performance View Post
was the graph meant to be in celsius? if not, room temp is freezing cold down there

so ceramic coating the intake manifolds will help out a lot, huh? what kind of cost are we looking at here? and who does that kinda job? and whats the best coating?

and are you suggesting that perhaps heat wrapping the i/c would be beneficial?

Last edited by jturkel; 08-19-2009 at 01:21 AM.
jturkel is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:27 AM
  #63  
Former Vendor of MBWorld
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,935
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
AMG
Originally Posted by jturkel View Post
was the graph meant to be in celsius? if not, room temp is freezing cold down there

so ceramic coating the intake manifolds will help out a lot, huh? what kind of cost are we looking at here? and who does that kinda job? and whats the best coating?
Tests must have been done up north in cooler climates I suppose, it was done by some hot rodder magazine (i forget which, but you get the point). Those are accurate, it is F. True ceramic headers are impressive, after running an M3 on the dyno hard I could literally get my hands within 1/2" of the headers for 5-10 sec and it was merely luke warm, do that with a regular set of headers and you are talking serious burns. Nobody does true ceramic coatings for the Mercedes market, however you can always just send off your engine components to Jet Hot and they can do it for you, their coatings are legit.

Typically black satin ceramic coatings have the highest heat rating (2000-2500F), most others are in the 1500F range. Black would look pretty cool anyways so its not a bad way to go. On the intake manifold make sure they only coat the exterior, no need to do the interior. You could just have the outside of stock manifolds coated as well. Coating process usually in the $150-250 per component on avg (depending on size and how you do it). If you send multiple components to them I'm sure they can give you a discount of some kind. Do NOT coat the SCs... they need to radiate heat outwards and expel heat, it may cause the SC to exceed its normal heat range, but all other components are fair game ( you can even coat pistons & the works but that gets pricey).
AMS Performance is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:28 AM
  #64  
Former Vendor of MBWorld
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,935
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
AMG
Originally Posted by hooleyboy View Post
I'm telling my girlfriend that!
Mike.... you are naughty!
AMS Performance is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:31 AM
  #65  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
jturkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Valves of Houston
Posts: 4,852
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
02 C32 AMG
Originally Posted by AMS Performance View Post
Tests must have been done up north in cooler climates I suppose, it was done by some hot rodder magazine (i forget which, but you get the point). Those are accurate, it is F. True ceramic headers are impressive, after running an M3 on the dyno hard I could literally get my hands within 1/2" of the headers for 5-10 sec and it was merely luke warm, do that with a regular set of headers and you are talking serious burns. Nobody does true ceramic coatings for the Mercedes market, however you can always just send off your engine components to Jet Hot and they can do it for you, their coatings are legit.

Typically black satin ceramic coatings have the highest heat rating (2000-2500F), most others are in the 1500F range. Black would look pretty cool anyways so its not a bad way to go. On the intake manifold make sure they only coat the exterior, no need to do the interior. You could just have the outside of stock manifolds coated as well. Coating process usually in the $150-250 per component on avg (depending on size and how you do it). If you send multiple components to them I'm sure they can give you a discount of some kind. Do NOT coat the SCs... they need to radiate heat outwards and expel heat, it may cause the SC to exceed its normal heat range, but all other components are fair game ( you can even coat pistons & the works but that gets pricey).
hmm good to know. thanks for the info!

i dont really wanna coat my SS headers. its a pain as is to install them. i'll just leave them the way they are lol.
jturkel is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:34 AM
  #66  
Former Vendor of MBWorld
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,935
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
AMG
Originally Posted by jturkel View Post
hmm good to know. thanks for the info!

i dont really wanna coat my SS headers. its a pain as is to install them. i'll just leave them the way they are lol.
I agree, you can technically ceramic coat SS, but most people don't simply b/c they like the look of SS or its cost prohibitive to get both SS and then ceramic coat it (although it is the best option for any header since the headers will never ever rust).

Our headers can be ceramic coated as well, but that's up to the customer to do themselves, we don't do it simply due to cost restraints.

Last edited by AMS Performance; 08-19-2009 at 01:36 AM.
AMS Performance is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 06:03 AM
  #67  
Member
 
Wryfox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2004 E55 AMG
Every little bit helps. A tube of a certain length takes time for air to pass through. The less heated tubing it has to pass through matters. The intake tubes are not a big heat source for the air, but they are a significant length of the air path. heat exposure over time. Wraps are cheap and easy, and don't forget the cool factor of gold wrap that ceramic coatings don't have.
Wryfox is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 10:16 AM
  #68  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
SL55 AMG
AMS...what are your thoughts on Swain Tech coatings? They are supposed to be some of the leading suppliers to motorsport teams. I have a header for a straight six on my race car that was swain tech coated and it's been going strong and keeping very cool since 2004. And it sees 4 hrs a day (road course circuits) in the middle of summer at redline 99% of the time on the race track
Sunir is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 10:35 AM
  #69  
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: D.C. METRO AREA
Posts: 971
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
CLS55 AMG
You guys are putting to much effort into very very small performance gains. A better more effective idea would be to get the inlet points completely out of the engine compartment, and maximize the heat exchangers efficiency. Also you need to be reading the charged air temperature after the heat exchanger.
Full Throttle is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 10:37 AM
  #70  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Riverwoods, Il
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2005 E55 AMG
Swain tech's white lightning is the sex.

I run this on a few of my turbocharged exhaust manifolds, turbo housings, & down pipes. It is imo the best coating as far as durability & heat suppression. If it can handle turbocharged parts it can handle na headers etc..........
GRAFH is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 10:42 AM
  #71  
Out Of Control!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 13,449
Liked 67 Times in 54 Posts
haters crazy
Originally Posted by Full Throttle View Post
You guys are putting to much effort into very very small performance gains. A better more effective idea would be to get the inlet points completely out of the engine compartment, and maximize the heat exchangers efficiency. Also you need to be reading the charged air temperature after the heat exchanger.
The heat exchanger has fluid running through it not charge air so do you mean post intercooler temps?
blackbenzz is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 10:49 AM
  #72  
Senior Member
 
Jen_Kenne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Latitude 26.1695, Longitude -80.0997
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
my wife wild, but she loves every minute of it.
Originally Posted by 99DirtybirdWS6 View Post
Anyone run Redline's Water Wetter or a coolant additive to make the intercooler more effective?
I used Water Wetter on some cars with more marginal around-town cooling and it did make a small, but noticeable difference.
Jen_Kenne is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:13 AM
  #73  
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: D.C. METRO AREA
Posts: 971
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
CLS55 AMG
Originally Posted by blackbenzz View Post
The heat exchanger has fluid running through it not charge air so do you mean post intercooler temps?
The supercharger *charges* the air and the heat exchanger cools down the charged air. that's the only temperature that matters. While the cooler the air before the H/E the cooler the air after the H/E is a given. If his H/E is not lowering the air that's being charged by the screws as efficiently as possible he may be just ice skating up hill.
Full Throttle is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:16 AM
  #74  
Out Of Control!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 13,449
Liked 67 Times in 54 Posts
haters crazy
Originally Posted by Full Throttle View Post
The supercharger *charges* the air and the heat exchanger cools down the charged air. that's the only temperature that matters. While the cooler the air before the H/E the cooler the air after the H/E is a given. If his H/E is not lowering the air that's being charged by the screws as efficiently as possible he may be just ice skating up hill.
My point was that you are using the wrong terminology. The H/E does not cool the charge air, the intercooler does. The only time the H/E has air in it is if it wasn't bled properly
blackbenzz is offline  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:26 AM
  #75  
Senior Member
 
Jen_Kenne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Latitude 26.1695, Longitude -80.0997
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
my wife wild, but she loves every minute of it.
Originally Posted by Full Throttle View Post
The supercharger *charges* the air and the heat exchanger cools down the charged air. that's the only temperature that matters. While the cooler the air before the H/E the cooler the air after the H/E is a given. If his H/E is not lowering the air that's being charged by the screws as efficiently as possible he may be just ice skating up hill.
Unconventional terminology. A supercharger (or turbo-supercharger) compresses the air -- increases the air pressure -- so that more oxygen is available for combustion. This is why you lose power at the top of Pikes Peak, or gain it in Death Valley. Whether a rotary impeller, vane, positive displacement, etc. compressing the air heats it and that is counter productive. That is why an intercooler is used - to remove heat from the compressed air.
Jen_Kenne is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Quick Reply: Heat Wrapping Intake Tubes - Does Work!! (Supporting Data and Pictures)


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: