**** REMEMBER MHP? ****
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Joined: May 2008
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2006 E55 AMG
[QUOTE=BENZGal;3693640]
Hahaha...defensive aren't we. I could totally understand why and there's no doubt I would be too. It's too bad that you really think that I have some type of motive behind my post. I'm actually trying to learn from this so I could possibly pick up on something before it's too late...especially after tunes. I believe with a better understanding of how tunes work with our cars there's a better chance of avoiding things like this.
Good luck Angela and I'm sorry if you took my post the wrong way.
Back to MHP....
WOW! MHP must be loving this thread...haha. It went from bashing MHP to bringing up PC's past.
Just a quick few questions to get a better understanding of the topic at hand. When did this all go down? If you tune a car at wide open throttle would the ECU adapt accordingly and adjust for partial throttle fueling? For my own knowledge I'm just trying to figure out how Angela's car ran so rich that it washed down her cylinder walls with AFR's at acceptable levels during wide open throttle tuning? How bad was gas mileage during the duration of this tune? How about gas smells, wouldn't that be present with a rich running car?
PC uses the open throttle theory to skirt the blame on my car. It's not the case and you quoted them word for word. Hmmm lol [/B]
Just a quick few questions to get a better understanding of the topic at hand. When did this all go down? If you tune a car at wide open throttle would the ECU adapt accordingly and adjust for partial throttle fueling? For my own knowledge I'm just trying to figure out how Angela's car ran so rich that it washed down her cylinder walls with AFR's at acceptable levels during wide open throttle tuning? How bad was gas mileage during the duration of this tune? How about gas smells, wouldn't that be present with a rich running car?
PC uses the open throttle theory to skirt the blame on my car. It's not the case and you quoted them word for word. Hmmm lol [/B]
Good luck Angela and I'm sorry if you took my post the wrong way.
Back to MHP....
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
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12C P85DL
[quote=MRAMG1;3693746]
Me too
Angela, you are one of the best here and thanks for your posts
Now with that being said, may I suggest you guys/girls go over to AD as Andy is now posting to "All of his customers" whomever they maybe, that he will void any and all warrenties if they show up and allow ANYONE to "touch" their ECU at the PC tune/Dyno meet.
Hasn't he already done this with his paying customers
Bummer!
Let's say there was a tool for ME2.8.1s, 2.7.1s and 97s (Kompressor, TTV12 and 63s) that would permit owners to freely swap between two tunes so they could evaluate performance. How can that be done without getting sideways with tuners if no one but the tuner can "touch" their tuned version of software? Who really owns the tuned software? I would have thouht the one that pays for it does and thus should be free to swap back and forth between one or more tunes from different tuners or a track and street tune from the same tuner for that matter.
Me too
Angela, you are one of the best here and thanks for your posts
Now with that being said, may I suggest you guys/girls go over to AD as Andy is now posting to "All of his customers" whomever they maybe, that he will void any and all warrenties if they show up and allow ANYONE to "touch" their ECU at the PC tune/Dyno meet.
Hasn't he already done this with his paying customers
Let's say there was a tool for ME2.8.1s, 2.7.1s and 97s (Kompressor, TTV12 and 63s) that would permit owners to freely swap between two tunes so they could evaluate performance. How can that be done without getting sideways with tuners if no one but the tuner can "touch" their tuned version of software? Who really owns the tuned software? I would have thouht the one that pays for it does and thus should be free to swap back and forth between one or more tunes from different tuners or a track and street tune from the same tuner for that matter.
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Bummer!
Let's say there was a tool for ME2.8.1s, 2.7.1s and 97s (Kompressor, TTV12 and 63s) that would permit owners to freely swap between two tunes so they could evaluate performance. How can that be done without getting sideways with tuners if no one but the tuner can "touch" their tuned version of software? Who really owns the tuned software? I would have thouht the one that pays for it does and thus should be free to swap back and forth between one or more tunes from different tuners or a track and street tune from the same tuner for that matter.
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From: Philadelphia, PA
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
That's the issue I've been trying to bring up from day one. I argue that there is NO legal basis whatsoever in voiding a warranty such as stated by MHP. The warranty contract itself can be valid on paper (ie, a general disclosure agreement) but if it ever went to court, Pandora's Box would fly open and this whole tuner's IP issue would hit the fan.
Frankly, it's probably a moot point anyway, as MHP has restructured their money-back-guarantee to not have an "unlimited" duration... IIRC it's mentioned to be a 14 day guarantee from when the product's delivered. IMHO, a 30 day period would be more customer friendly... 2 weeks is a pretty short period of time to properly break in and subjective/objectively evaluate a tune.
The IP stuff is an interesting topic overall - but if any tuner really wanted to read another's software, wouldn't they just covertly buy a copy of the tune? For example, it probably wouldn't be that difficult to round up a willing C63 owner, compensate them for the hassle, downtime, tune, dyno runs, etc., heck even a rental car... and just dissect the code at one's leisure. Unless I'm oversimplifying...?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
Are you saying Bob Brady sent you an email about Angela's car?
He emailed me about Angela's car. Go figure.
Are you saying DC or RT treat people different pending on the money they spend? IF you are I find this not to be true. I know at DC this is not the case. It doesnt matter if you spend $65 or $65,000 you are treated with the same respect at DC.
Sorry for the confusion. I meant RT. I know DC is solid.
As for RENNtech, I know RENNtech's number 1 cash cow this year. She has 2 fulley renntech'ed out Gwagons. It turns out she has another Gwagon (that makes 3) and that will be decked out as well. Not to mention the 2 Cayenne turbo's she's got that are being taken to the max as we speak at DC.
Actually, I meant DC as their cash cow. I didn't mean a customer. I'm saying that you may have nothing but nice things to say about how responsive RT Florioda is since DC is their cash cow. If they treated individuals as they obviously do DC then there would be no complaints.
Point is, this girl that came into the shop in Feb of this year has spent over 120K at DC and The 19 year old kid calling about a $300 COBB tune for a 350z is given the same treatment. I see that kind of stuff first had. 40min phone call for info on a dyno-run.
All I know is i cant say how RENNtech in FLA treats people, Im not there to see it... However I see first hand how our Renntech guy who works out of DC treats people.. And thats with respect no matter what you spend.
If you mean Ken Rudy, then yes I agree. He came out to San Diego a few times to personally help mediate our issues. He did his best.
He emailed me about Angela's car. Go figure.
Are you saying DC or RT treat people different pending on the money they spend? IF you are I find this not to be true. I know at DC this is not the case. It doesnt matter if you spend $65 or $65,000 you are treated with the same respect at DC.
Sorry for the confusion. I meant RT. I know DC is solid.
As for RENNtech, I know RENNtech's number 1 cash cow this year. She has 2 fulley renntech'ed out Gwagons. It turns out she has another Gwagon (that makes 3) and that will be decked out as well. Not to mention the 2 Cayenne turbo's she's got that are being taken to the max as we speak at DC.
Actually, I meant DC as their cash cow. I didn't mean a customer. I'm saying that you may have nothing but nice things to say about how responsive RT Florioda is since DC is their cash cow. If they treated individuals as they obviously do DC then there would be no complaints.
Point is, this girl that came into the shop in Feb of this year has spent over 120K at DC and The 19 year old kid calling about a $300 COBB tune for a 350z is given the same treatment. I see that kind of stuff first had. 40min phone call for info on a dyno-run.
All I know is i cant say how RENNtech in FLA treats people, Im not there to see it... However I see first hand how our Renntech guy who works out of DC treats people.. And thats with respect no matter what you spend.
If you mean Ken Rudy, then yes I agree. He came out to San Diego a few times to personally help mediate our issues. He did his best.
Again, and since this thread is more about the evils, I have nothing but good things to say of RT's products. My issues were more communication than technical. Unfortunately, the relayed messages weren't making it back and forth intact since it wasn't exactly in the messenger's best interest to truthful.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,193
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From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
Again, and since this thread is more about the evils, I have nothing but good things to say of RT's products. My issues were more communication than technical. Unfortunately, the relayed messages weren't making it back and forth intact since it wasn't exactly in the messenger's best interest to truthful.
Maybe I read it wrong, No harm no foul. I hear you though its sucks when there is a communication breakdown. You ever going to head back out to AZ and race with us again?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
The IP stuff is an interesting topic overall - but if any tuner really wanted to read another's software, wouldn't they just covertly buy a copy of the tune? For example, it probably wouldn't be that difficult to round up a willing C63 owner, compensate them for the hassle, downtime, tune, dyno runs, etc., heck even a rental car... and just dissect the code at one's leisure. Unless I'm oversimplifying...?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
Cool. I meant nothing bad, especially to the AZ crew. I will be making a number of trips this fall and winter so i will definitely come and race. I will also want to come by and see what you can do with my tranny...
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
[quote=bassn_07;3693800]Yes, back to bad tunes. A/F is only an indicator and can only be used assuming other parameters are stable. Simply put, comsider a car running rich with the timing turned way up. If you do not allow the ECU management to pull timing, it will eventually POP!
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From: school west coast-Summer Internships Va and Bmore
E55 (for sale if the right offer comes along)...too many others to list
Alan you are an awesome guy and we are cool. Go kick some serious butt this weekend. I will join you next time.
MRAMG1-Ditto
K nasty about the rat in the engine.
MRAMG1-Ditto
K nasty about the rat in the engine.
Super Member
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From: San Ramon, CA
A Prius because I'm green
Yea Alan stop being a one man wolf pack! I'm off after tomorrow for four days. We will get that beast up and running so you can make history!
So Rick should you put your signature block to say, You came on MBWorld for recreation and left on probation or something?
So Rick should you put your signature block to say, You came on MBWorld for recreation and left on probation or something?
MBWorld Fanatic!
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2006 E55 AMG
My wolf pack has grown by one and it's safe to say it will grow to 3 or 4...haha.
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From: California, USA
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
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From: Fairfax,VA
06 E55
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From: Philadelphia, PA
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
I believe MB Forever's aware of that - but RAR came off of probation (I think?) for the violation you mention... and now is back on.
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From: Fairfax,VA
06 E55
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211-55
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From: California, USA
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
That is correct. I know that in the beginning of the thread they put on him on probation twice for mentioning his business, then he got a 3-day suspension for telling someone why he was put on probation, but then the suspension was over and he was back. Now he seems to be on probation again.
