Star Diagnostic How To DIY with lots o pics
01-05-2015, 09:43 PM
#777
Out Of Control!!
Just got my SDS from Shardul, was playing with it a bit today. Got the car converted to ROW and Set up the -10 degree fan mod set up
01-05-2015, 11:24 PM
#779
Out Of Control!!
Pretty sure you can get the rest of what you need from local vendors
Last edited by 55fanatic; 01-06-2015 at 03:22 PM.
01-06-2015, 12:24 AM
#784
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Virginia
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S211 E350 wagon, w211 e550, 2023 glb250, 2013 Audi q7
Damn I'm in nyc often but that's kinda far. I need to recalibrate my passenger seat airbag sensor because I have a bad sensor. After I get a new one of course.
Anybody in the Virginia or New York area that can help? Pretty sure I figured out how it works and don't need the actual weight Mercedes has
Anybody in the Virginia or New York area that can help? Pretty sure I figured out how it works and don't need the actual weight Mercedes has
01-06-2015, 01:25 PM
#785
MBWorld Fanatic!
eg. Thermostat opens between 85-90 C
Cooling fan starts and speeds up between 90-95 C, something like that.
If the fan cuts in too early, it will cool the water, which will cause the thermostat to close. Therefore the fan and the stat will be fighting eachother for control of the coolant temp.
The coolant needs to be circulating for the fan to have any effect. Hence they need to work in sequence, and that sequence must be stat first, fan second.
The best place to start is with a low temp stat.
Nick
01-07-2015, 01:05 PM
#787
MBWorld Fanatic!
OK, but the fan isn't just controlled by demand from the engine ECU for cooling the engine - its controlled by demand from the AC system as well. Tha AC sends its demand to the engine ECU, which controls the fan. At least that how my car works.
Older cars used to run the fan whenever the AC was switched on, regardless of the engine temp, so I think the AC is always taken into account. It seems to be quite a complex job. Modern AC compressors, as well as cooling fans (and pumps in general - like my IC pump
) have electronically-controlled variable output.
The climate control system therefore has to juggle three variables to achieve the end result: compressor output, engine fan speed and ventilation fan speed. Given all the different combinations of interior and exterior temperature, that sounds like quite a complicated algorythm that will be disrupted with the fan mod.
I can hardly comment about other people performing amateur modifications on their cars given what I've done to mine, but I can't help thinking about the mantra of a little knowledge being dangerous. I still think engine cooling should eb sequential - stat first, fan second.
Regards, Nick
Older cars used to run the fan whenever the AC was switched on, regardless of the engine temp, so I think the AC is always taken into account. It seems to be quite a complex job. Modern AC compressors, as well as cooling fans (and pumps in general - like my IC pump
) have electronically-controlled variable output. The climate control system therefore has to juggle three variables to achieve the end result: compressor output, engine fan speed and ventilation fan speed. Given all the different combinations of interior and exterior temperature, that sounds like quite a complicated algorythm that will be disrupted with the fan mod.
I can hardly comment about other people performing amateur modifications on their cars given what I've done to mine, but I can't help thinking about the mantra of a little knowledge being dangerous. I still think engine cooling should eb sequential - stat first, fan second.
Regards, Nick
01-08-2015, 10:29 AM
#788
Out Of Control!!
You are assuming that once the fan triggers, the car is going to cool off before the thermostat does its job and that's just not true. If the fan had such a dramatic affect on the car's temp... Folks would be upgrading fans, not heat exchangers, or splitting the systems.
Many folks have the fans wired to ignition so they start as soon as the car has power and there are no side effects there
Many folks have the fans wired to ignition so they start as soon as the car has power and there are no side effects there
01-08-2015, 02:51 PM
#789
MBWorld Fanatic!
Sure - the engine is always going to be cooled, that's not in question.
But the whole point of having an electric fan is to AVOID having the fan running all the time, with the attendant power drain that causes.
A full-time electric fan is even worse than a belt-driven fan, as a belt is much more efficient than an alternator and motor. Its very well documented that the alternator is only about 55% efficient at best, and I guess the fan motor can't be much better.
The problem is that a 100% fan drains power from the engine. That reduces max power and increases fuel consumption, that's all. If that's acceptable, then there's no problem.
Nick
But the whole point of having an electric fan is to AVOID having the fan running all the time, with the attendant power drain that causes.
A full-time electric fan is even worse than a belt-driven fan, as a belt is much more efficient than an alternator and motor. Its very well documented that the alternator is only about 55% efficient at best, and I guess the fan motor can't be much better.
The problem is that a 100% fan drains power from the engine. That reduces max power and increases fuel consumption, that's all. If that's acceptable, then there's no problem.
Nick
01-12-2015, 03:27 AM
#790
I have 2003, the folding mirrors when locking is set on the instrument clusters settings menu. Atleast in my car!
03-04-2015, 08:26 PM
#792
03-04-2015, 08:26 PM
#793
MBWorld Fanatic!
As far as the fan speed and when it turns on....if the thermostat is open at 180 and the fan comes on at 200, then turning the fan on at 190 will indeed keep the engine cooler. It will not bring it below 180 but will run cooler.I have an over ride switch in mine and on really hot days she will run right at 182-186. Normally temp is around 195-200 on hot days.
The thermostat really just gets the engine up to temp quickly and keeps it at the thermostat rating. But if there is no air flow going threw the radiator the engine temperature will continue to just keep climbing. More fan speed...lower temperatures. With no fan speed a 160 thermostat will not keep the engine at 160, its the fan pulling air that is going to do that.But it will not drop below 160 no matter how much air is getting pulled in.
The thermostat really just gets the engine up to temp quickly and keeps it at the thermostat rating. But if there is no air flow going threw the radiator the engine temperature will continue to just keep climbing. More fan speed...lower temperatures. With no fan speed a 160 thermostat will not keep the engine at 160, its the fan pulling air that is going to do that.But it will not drop below 160 no matter how much air is getting pulled in.
Last edited by SICAMG; 03-04-2015 at 08:32 PM.
03-04-2015, 09:27 PM
#794
MBWorld Fanatic!
03-04-2015, 09:31 PM
#795
MBWorld Fanatic!
Depends where it comes from. This "mode" does not even exist in the SDS machines Mercedes-Benz dealers use. As it is named, it is for development of control modules for the car, and there are many. I would assume to have legitimate access to this mode, you would need to be a company that has a direct relationship with Daimler, such as Brabus, Bosch, etc. However, the software is licensed from Daimler and depending on what type of customer you are depends on what access level you will get. If you have a China MUX and SDS, it probably has an illicit license anyway, and Developer Mode will be activated.
03-04-2015, 10:32 PM
#797
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well, Daimler restricts access to several safety related features probably due to federal law. Since these are globally sold vehicles, there are several regulations that must be met for each country. For example, you can turn off the Seat Belt reminder if you have an expecting mother riding in the car where it may be in the best interest not to wear the seat belt. It provides a deeper level of access to components. Most of the Developer menus are in German, so unless you are fluent in German, it would be difficult to utilize unless you have step by step instructions on how to do what you want.
If you only want to diagnose your car for repair purposes, you technically would not need it (i.e. the dealer does not need it). However, many of the modules now are coded with a Software Calibration Number (SCN) that is provided to the technician directly from the Daimler servers that essentially is a large string of numbers that represent a particular configuration for that car's VIN. For emissions reasons, SCN is required for emission related modules such as the engine ECU (ME), transmission coding, and theft relevant items. They don't just open up this access to anyone. You can get around SCN coding in many instances if you have a Developer Kit enabled Star system, but again, it really depends on what you want to do. To modify the top speed (VMAX), yes, you would need Developer access. This is something that they do not even provide to dealers, etc.
What you can do with SDS in regards for performance, etc., is virtually nothing. You would need to research "chip tuning" which is a whole other ball game.
I see that you have a 2005 E55 AMG. You could change raise the top speed on the with the Developer mode. The W211 is the era where they really were taking SDS to a new level, and also at the same time shortly after restricting it to a new level on later model cars. You can change the fuel grade on the ME, so if you live in an area that does not provide high quality fuel, you can change the ME to lower the ignition timing to run somewhat safer on lower octane, regular fuel. I have seen many *new* E350s W211s sold in the USA that is set to the low octane by default, even though any reference to fuel on these cars tell you that they require premium fuel.
If you only want to diagnose your car for repair purposes, you technically would not need it (i.e. the dealer does not need it). However, many of the modules now are coded with a Software Calibration Number (SCN) that is provided to the technician directly from the Daimler servers that essentially is a large string of numbers that represent a particular configuration for that car's VIN. For emissions reasons, SCN is required for emission related modules such as the engine ECU (ME), transmission coding, and theft relevant items. They don't just open up this access to anyone. You can get around SCN coding in many instances if you have a Developer Kit enabled Star system, but again, it really depends on what you want to do. To modify the top speed (VMAX), yes, you would need Developer access. This is something that they do not even provide to dealers, etc.
What you can do with SDS in regards for performance, etc., is virtually nothing. You would need to research "chip tuning" which is a whole other ball game.
I see that you have a 2005 E55 AMG. You could change raise the top speed on the with the Developer mode. The W211 is the era where they really were taking SDS to a new level, and also at the same time shortly after restricting it to a new level on later model cars. You can change the fuel grade on the ME, so if you live in an area that does not provide high quality fuel, you can change the ME to lower the ignition timing to run somewhat safer on lower octane, regular fuel. I have seen many *new* E350s W211s sold in the USA that is set to the low octane by default, even though any reference to fuel on these cars tell you that they require premium fuel.
Last edited by Polar Bear; 03-04-2015 at 10:36 PM.
03-04-2015, 10:46 PM
#798
MBWorld Fanatic!
Damn I'm in nyc often but that's kinda far. I need to recalibrate my passenger seat airbag sensor because I have a bad sensor. After I get a new one of course.
Anybody in the Virginia or New York area that can help? Pretty sure I figured out how it works and don't need the actual weight Mercedes has
Anybody in the Virginia or New York area that can help? Pretty sure I figured out how it works and don't need the actual weight Mercedes has
03-05-2015, 10:31 AM
#799
MBWorld Fanatic!
Great information ! Thank you. So right now I have a Snap -on Versus {$8,500.00} for this but I can work on anything. So really what I am trying to understand is , the Versus should be more than enough for any problems I run into. What I can not do is a SBC brake bleed if I ever change out the unit. Can I get around this with no Star system? I DO NOT want to go to the dealer for anything and hope the Versus is good enough. Thanks for your input!
03-06-2015, 01:11 PM
#800
The snap on scan tools are waaaaaaaay over rated and waaaaaay too damn expensive. I have an Autel Maxisys and it runs circles around the snap on for a quarter of the price. I can do the service bleed, SBC counter reset, lower the car, etc.....factory developer mode type stuff. It programs keys and codes modules and everything.
