sneakyneon

Nope, just some cheap 265/40/18 on stock wheels.

blackbenzz

It means the meth injection cooled the car much better than an ice packed trunk reservoir. Look at the yellow line (IAT's). It laso means he was running more timing with the meth (red line, farther down is more timing). The green line is just throttle position so you know when he's on the gas (higher means more throttle input). All of the lines have their corresponding scales on the side in the same color

I'm glad people are testing meth on these cars. It is GREAT for IAT's as people are seeing but it is also corrosive so I was considering running straight water

prodigymb

If you are into drag racing. Get a tire it makes it so much more fun on the track and street. Imagine sitting at a light and pulling a luanch with zero wheel spin

madgoat

I have a Snow kit on the way and will run 50/50 mix. Their kits have a bunch of safety features as well. I'll post when I get it installed.

prodigymb

Corrosive - the biggest argument of the nay sayers. Once you start doing more research, and talking to people that have it or had it. You won't worry about it as much. There are a lot of people that use it that I personally know around here that have nothing but good things to say about it, like that it cleans up carbon deposits on their valves....and obviously IAT drops. I think the benefit of running a 75 degree IAT instead of 130 far outweighs the mythical potential negatives.....besides ofcourse the flooding one ...

HYEPWR

Since some seem a little lost---I will try to summerize the Issues/solutions with water/methol in the E55.

In our cars air goes from the air filter directly into the supercharger--there it is compressed to ~12psi (in a stock car)---this compression adds a tremendous amount of heat. The air leaves the SC at ~200+ degrees. This is very BAD. Thus AMG places an Intercooler directly under the SC. Cool water flows through this devise and as the air from the SC passes through it---it gets cooler. The air then passes a AIT sensor, which measures the temp of that air. The ECU of the car uses this air temp data to determine many things that are of great importance to power development. The most important being engine timing. If/when the AIT sensor tells the ECU that the air entering the engine is over 140degrees---the ECU starts to drastically reduce power to protect the engine.

Meth/Water injection is used to increase the octane in cars--thus allowing them to run more timing and boost. It is also used to reduces temp in high temp apps to prevent detonation. The E55 does not have any issues with detonation. What we do have is a very conservative/aggressive ECU that decreases timing (power) when temps get too high. Now you couple this with an intercooler core that is very small .....u have power loss at anything past 10 sec of full throttle. In the E55---reducing AIT's is the where meth/water injection has its greatest benifit. Bottom line is that water/meth works and has since WWI.

After you decide that water/meth works and is very useful for this application---youre next question should be....

"WHERE DO I PUT THE WATER NOZZLE"???

I made a small diagram to show what I mean. There are 4 possible places to put a nozzle(marked a,b,c,d).

A)BEFORE THE SC--this is the easiest to install.....but the least effective. This is due to the fact that the air is already cool as it enters the SC. In effect all this does is slightly cool the intake temp. The ejection temp will be reduced but not by a whole lot. Not to mention the washing phenomenon mentioned earlier.

B)After the SC but before the IC core---this would be very effective as the ejected air from the SC in very hot. The water/meth would instantly vapourize and greatly reduce the load on the IC core. The problem with this location is that now you have much denser air trying to get through that pathetic core of ours. Its already been estimated that the core eats up 3-5psi of preasure. Now when u try to force more dense air through it--you *may* get a greater preasure drop. This is why most water/meth inj makers recomend POST IC installs.

C)After the IC but before AIT sensor--This is the best location in terms of performance. This is where Sneakyneon has placed his(see his pics). The air is instantly cooled....and more importantly---this cooled air is measured by the AIT sensor. The drawback with this location is kinda a BIG one. Your S/C and IC have to come out of the car pretty much---not a small job to say the least. As you can see though---the results are amazing. As long as the stock (or close to it) ECU programing is in place---there is no fear if the systems fails. The car would just revert back to its old stock self.

D)After the AIT sensor--I didnt mark this but basically it would be of no help. The engine would be getting something that the ECU has no idea about. It is easy to install.

Most people with E55's that have installed Water/meth have used position A. This is why the results have been non conclusive. Sneakyneon has a perfect install and his data log show just how awsome it is. I would say that he would just "LEAVE" a similar E55 on warm day on a 3rd gear run. the faster the speeds the more this mods shows its strength.

Hope this helps someone..

hooleyboy

The sole reason We dont install meth kits in cars is due to user error. Even with all the fool proof safety features they kits come with. There is always a chance for user error. All it takes is one time. Guess I'm just afraid of of something going wrong. I'm also know to over look a thing or two.

Maybe someone should look into the super cooler concept from the Ford Lightning concept. That would be something.

prodigymb

user error is factor in every upgrade, occasionally we see pulleys falling off most likely due to improper install. i do agree w/m is not for every one, as you have to be aware of it....by that i mean fill it up etc. however if you do not tune agressively for it or do not tune at all and just enjoy the extra power your exsisting tune gives you from cooler air you shouldn't have any problems.

sneakyneon

check out the killer chiller from kancaid http://www.killerchiller.com/ I even saw a member selling a core here in the performance section.

phantom1

I decided to try meht inj. I have no need for an agressive tune. I really want to just cool the IAT. Now i have to make a decision on which one to purchase.
Thanks for help.

sneakyneon

I LOVE drag racing! Unfortunately I have what they call a Champaign thrust on a beer income(E4 in the army), It helps that I do all my own work and i do allot of wheeling and dealing. The next big purchase will be the tune, then I'm going to search for a deal on some 16's and will probably have to bite the bullet and buy new hoosiers.

sneakyneon

I use the universal stage 1 kit from devils own. They have an updated pump that sprays at 250psi.

prodigymb

i am on athe fence between spray and meth. glad you posted those logs, i may try meth.

stevebez

OK here is my take before I embark on this install.... (waiting for Aquamist to get back to me!!!).

I honestly do not see the point of using meth in this application. Are we trying to increase the octane of the fuel ? No. So why do you need a meth mixture? Just use plain old H20.

I still maintain ahead of the IC is best. The reasons for this ?

1 It will allow the I/C to perform in a temp range it will be more efficient at.

2 The drawback of having denser (cooler) air pass through the small IC is not necessarily a problem - the flow through the I/C is not an issue, but its ability to absorb heat, is. All I/C's result in boost drop of some degree. Besides the restriction I think its physics - you cannot have hot air coming in , cooling it down and expect it to have the same pressure. I also like the fact that the core will be "sprayed" with vapour perhaps even increasing its efficiency?

3 I also like the fact that there will be sufficient air swirl to mix the air temps properly before the IAT sensor is reached.

4 Better and greater vaporisation of the water ahead of the I/C - getting the most out of the system to reduce temps. Using water when the air has not already cooled a bit maintains the impact and efficiency of the water injection.

5 Placing the injector after the I/C, will result in slower / poorer / less efficient vaporisation and be more prone to flooding as temps will be below 100deg c. - chance of water collecting downstream is quite likely I would say.

I may fit injectors at both locations so I could swap between to see the effects, but would be very surprised if the post IC would be more efficient in our application.

NEMES1S

why is nobody using this? It looks fairly universal and it could be added inline with what we already have, I would like to see results from someone using this in combo with an upgraded pump.

prodigymb

i recently found a budget set of 16s that can be used for DRs and had great results with them 1.6x short times. pm me whenever u start looking and i'll tell u what u need to get. i honestly wish i would have gotten the drag tire setup as my FIRST mod if i had to do it all over again. i absolutely feel ya on the pricing of mods/upgrades, i try to work on a budget as well.

try to get DRs before the tune and see what you can do...

HYEPWR

Good theoretical points Steve...I have yet to see a test that compares pre and post IC installs that shows one is better than the other. But from my own testing on another car--I know that as long as the meth/h20 starts spraying at or over 7-8psi--you will get instant vapourization. I personally doubt there would be much differance.


As far as the KILLERCHILLER....You can install this and it would work great...WHEN U DONT NEED IT!! MB has a feature(as mentioned) which disconnects the AC clutch when the car is at full Throttle. Since the Killerchiller is suppose to cool the water through the IC and this water spikes in temp when the car is at full throttle. This system (on the E55) would turn off exactly at the point we need it running.

That said---after a run, temps would drop INSTANTLY. Also I have seen this thing in action and as you drive your car around with this on the water will have a starting temp that is much lower than normal.....so the peaks may never reach the same level they do normally. Its would be a terrific alternative to a cooling kit.-

NEMES1S

wouldn't the cooler initial temp be better? I assume it running cooler when you aren't super hard on it could return better power combustion, fuel economy, etc. but I think that the only way this system would work well is to refrigerate a seperate tank of fluid to cold as hell while idling/cruising and then when you go WOT it would open a valve and start pumping that to the factory water to air.....anyone wanna build this?

broke1

I have run alky injection for years and it is the best thing next to race gas.I have run it on all my GN's and my old Skyline(lived abroad)Running pure methanol is the best and makes the most hp.An added benifit is when u pull the engine down,u will be shopped by the lack of carbon buildup.I have been running alky injection almost as long as I have been driving....

I am in the middle of having a kit made for our cars.It will have factory fit and finish and will be undetectable.These are too nice of cars to have control boxes/gauges mounted in the cab IMO

Only problem I am running into is getting the spacers for the upper plenums made reasonably.They have to be pretty thick to get the nozzle in there and not rub the hood.

The only option you have with the universal kits is to spray thru the SC and you run into all kinds of distribution problems when you do that.Def not the best thing to hit the teflon rotors with methanol either.Teflon is tuff but methanol is very corrosive as stated...

sneakyneon

I run a universal kit, My nozzel is no where near the inlet, What was your reasoning for your choice of nozzel placement? How are you going to adresss the iat sensor with this placement?

02cl55amg

what if i'm not tuning with the meth? i have ttV12 and just want to lower my iat's so i just get better effiiency. not concerned with tuning with meth so i can add more timing. just want what i have now to be running at its fullest potential. i know what your saying about possibly hurting my motor. rebuilding this motor for a few tenths is not worth it, but 75deg iat's are tempting.

madgoat

This is an endless debate and really goes back to older vehicles. What people don't understand is that there is no standard rubber any longer in any vehicle since the the inception of flex fuel vehicles. All rubber is not standard like the old days. It all a hybrid rubber with polymers like Viton.. It would make no sense to make 2 setup of fuels lines, hoses for every car. Plus almost all gas has 10% ethanol these days. So they would have problems as well with all their rubber seals and lines.

I have had water meth on Cobras for years along with many of my friends in the performance industry. This goes along the same road as the E85 debate. I have ran it and tore down my motor and there were no signs of any problems. My friend at Dynotune has tested it for 100k miles and tore down the motor and found no problems. This is running 50/50 though.. Would I run a tune setup for it? Sure, as long as I had the capability to switch tunes. Unfortunately we are not there yet with that capability to load your race tune at the track and then switch back.

prodigymb

How did you tune the E55 with DiabloSport?

madgoat

Can't comment on that yet...

mdweiss

+1 for aquamist, they have a really good failsafe/monitor/gauge that i have used prior. Its the DDS-3 and at version 9 i believe. This can be implemented into an existing setup or comes with one of their systems.

I have used it on turbo charged applications before where it turns off the electronic boost controller to drop boost in case of an issue. on a supercharged car they sell a solenoid that opens up the bypass valve and reduces/eliminates boost in case of an emergency.