Hammer Down

no it was the pink bug shield from the 70's, it creates tons of downforce!

jdj27x

Going fast wow!

Zod

Firstly congrats on the great achievement

but this really has got me thinking about the whole 1/4 mile racing thing and the fairness/ representation of it all ( not taking anything away from you hammer, just discussion )

It is more then evident that which track you race at and what the weather/da/ sea level makes a huge difference in the outcome.

I say this because those times are close to 65 AMG times and well...no stock 55k even on drags has a chance in hell of beating one in the real world face to face realistically. These are spec purpose built engines and they do not vary in power that much.

So does this mean he is faster...I would guess not. If you were to bring a 65 to the same track/ day, it would most likely also do great (if its healthy / has good driver)

same can be said about the 63...didn't Mo also ran a personal best & 63 record and also raced said car and were neck and neck?

cars going from 116 mph traps to 120mph with out any power mods/ weight reduction does not make sense.

So my question is this.

• Car A runs a slow time at track 1
• Car B runs a very fast time at track 2.

Car A & B have a face off and the results on who is fastest goes the other way around, or they are neck & neck.

What does this tell you?

Hammer Down

Mo and I have never raced.

In that video I posted I ran a 116 but I also have another video where I ran 117 and a timeslip showing me running 117.7 and this was 2yrs ago! my 1st time at the track!
A few years ago at Sac Traynor in his SL65 ran 11.4@124

Max.H

Hey Alan!

The purpose of my post is just for discussion. Not trying to discredit anyone here. If you make a claim then one should be prepared for other like minded enthusiasts to try and understand the dynamics of the situation right?

Did he run with his 19s up front and just the 16 inch drag wheel? If so I am even more impressed. What about the gas was it 91 or mixed with race gas? Nothing wrong with splashing in a few gallons to bump up the octane to the recommended level.

I was talking about the mph. Not trying to prove a theory or make any allegations. I hope you don't take any offense Alan. I know what you went through before and that is the last thing I want to see happen. Yes, my car ran in positive DA. Approximately 1000+ is what I'm told. I have no idea what I would run in negative DA with you guys. I would hope that it would be substantially better then my previous times.

I'm not sure what other stock E55's ran at Famoso. I went there to prove my car can run 11s with no engine mods, stock wheels with drag radials only and claim victory over a certain banned member with a full bolt on e92 M3. Both objectives were executed flawlessly. IMO It can be a bit unfair to compare a car that is setup by an informed and experienced enthusiast with the intention of bringing out the maximum performance of a car and a casual weekend warrior that pulls up to the track and starts racing with no regard for heat soak (full trunk possibly, spare tire, jack, and tools) I optimize my tire pressure and do all my own testing, new launch techniques and what not. I guess it's fair to say a person who takes the necessary precautions should have a small advantage.

I always enjoy a good heads up race bud.

Hammer Down

I have always run with my 19's up front all 56.2lbs for each one! Alan runs a 16" wheel in the back and I run a 17" OEM Mercedes Benz wheel @ 25.2lbs! I also run a 100/91 50-50 mix.

bassn_07

In my experience, which is not very much, DA, air quality, uphill or downhill, and track elevation play a big roll in what these cars will run. If you go through dragtimes you'll see that a lot of stellar times are held at MIR with Sac making it's way up. Does this mean we have the fastest cars in the country or just getting the opportunity to run at some very fast tracks? I personally think the latter. If cars like Tag and several other proven fast cars had chances to run in similar DA with excellent track prep they would also be setting records. Unfortunately many cars will never have this opportunity to set records but does this take anything away from their accomplishment....not at all. In short you run where most convenient and just enjoy the sport for what it is....recreational.

You mention two different examples of Car A and B, lets add in one more. What happens if car B has already ran several stock E55 at the same track on the same day and out trapped them by 4-5 mph...what then? Will car B still be in question or all the other cars just slower?

bassn_07

No offense taken Max, I promise. You are a well respected member that brings a lot to this board and I have zero intentions on stirring up crap. I'm well past that now and instead of taking things on a personal level I decided to take a different approach....a discussion.

To tell the truth Max I had a hard time believing your numbers when you ran them at Famoso, given what other stock E55's ran. This is before I knew you and what kind of person you are. With that said, what you've done with your car is every bit as impressive as Hammers car and there's no doubt you guys would be a great heads up race. Like you mentioned, you're more of the weekend warrior and Jack is definitely more of a hardcore track junkie and takes the extra steps to get the most out his car with stock power. I admire him for this because most would just throw on a pulley, tune, and larger HE to get better times. The efforts Hammer puts into his car should be applauded and admired.

Hammer Down

Thx bro, you are right its so easy to just throw money at it but before one does that why not try and get everything out of the car in stock form. The ones who complain about me having drag radials need to get a life and learn how to drive their cars. Its taken me 2yrs to get to this point and it's playing with air pressures (street tires and drag radials) its about air ride up or down, shock setting on 1 or 2 while air up or down, its about 1/4 of gas or on empty while launching off idle or with a load or any other combo of the things I just said.

Max.H

Alan, that makes me happy that we understand each other.

Yea, it can be hard to believe. I knew if it was done before it can be done again. Well, I was actually referring to myself and an average joe weekend racer. But hey I'm honored to even be considered a sleeper... I guess? Let's just say that was not my first rodeo.

Without a doubt Jacks efforts should be well respected and admired. I know he has been gunning for 11 sec runs for quite some time. So, it couldn't have come to a more deserving person IMO. I know full well how much we love our cars and our personal achievements. So, it can become a very touchy subject. Understanding and applying the science behind the scenes is what intrigues me the most. Not the drama.

bassn_07

LOL, sorry man in no way was I calling you a rookie. I know you've been around the block a few times and have more experience than myself.

Haha...yeah, I've become quite sensitive when it comes down to trap speeds . I just need to take it for what it is, a forum.

Zod

If car B has ran several other stock cars in same weather same day and beaten them , then well done , but by 4-5 mph?

here is how i would see it. Again just discussing
one of the hardest parts in a drag race is the launch, after that the gap between the cars should not change drastically, or to a degree it will remain the same.

If it does it is either driver related or the cars are not on equal terms:
healthy engine, tiers , air pressure, fuel, weight, wheels etc

You should know well how much extra power you need to gain 4-5 mph extra in the 1/4?

or does a car magically gain this if we put weather aside & change nothing from stock setup?

ultimately it is evident that what he has achieved is down to weather, driver experience and car track set up & determination

Full Throttle

Congrats on the time K55>*

Hammer Down

Thx Full, I still love your wheels, they make your ride look sick!

bassn_07

I know it's hard to believe but this was done at a track event at Sacramento with several well respected members present. Hammer actually posted a video of one of his runs against a stock E55 and out trapped him by 4 mph. This wasn't just a one time thing, he has done over and over again. Regardless of what track and MPH he ran the fact still remains that he did do it.

Another fact, just earlier this year Hammer out trapped a stock E63. stock E55, LET tune 55, CLS63, and a stage 2 LET 55. How would we explain this one ? We can't but it was all done at the same track on the same day. Once again, regardless if people think Sac's MPH is off or not the fact is Hammer's car has given a smack down to several E55's tuned or not.

Yes, the launch is the most difficult part of drag racing. The gap created if both cars have identical launches would mean one car is running either healthier or just plain stronger with more hp. That's the only logical answer no matter which way you look at it.

In this instance knowing what should be true needs to be overlooked and the facts presented tells the story. Straight and simple, his car is making more power than the other stock E55's he raced.....it's a fact that can't be argued no matter which way you look at it. We could discuss this until we are both blue in the face but we can't get away from the fact he has done it several times already.

Hammer Down

Hey you forgot that C6 LS3 Corvette that ran 12.0@122 I didn't out trap him but it was close!

Oh wait here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQFzxPC4yX8

Zod

Impressive, hats off to you

Alan you got PM

bassn_07

We also got to witness a brand new CTS-V run yesterday and he trapped 117 through out the day.

cahiil55k

Congrats Hammer. That's awesome, I missed out but if the forecast looks good next Saturday I'm there. Glad to hear the rain held off until you guys were all done. For the doubters, I think Sacramento's ETs and traps are very close to other tracks. I just looked at other times posted on dragtimes and many of the cars are very close to where they should be:
http://www.dragtimes.com/Sacramento-...ackID-132.html

Mikesamg

What CTS V where you watching run, he was mostly 113 average with high 13-14 sec ETs. He was having a horrible day, poor guy!

Mikesamg

On a side note, stock E55's came rated at 500hp correct and in 05 they were detuned to 469 after people questioned why the higher make cars had the same HP?

Is it possible these cars are not build to spec to be equal, not to mention cars do break in better then others, some do turn into lemons after all, so how far off would it be for a stock 55 to trap 4-5mph higher?

I trapped 116 to 117 stock at Sac and the same after adding a pulley and tune at Fontana in 105 degree weather. When I came back up to sac I ran 11.5@123.33 So yes weather plays a factor as well as cool down time and a bunch of other things. Nothing is truly equal but everyone has the same equal opportunity to do the same thing. Jack put DR's on his car and drove it well, end of story why are we trying to figure something out with too many unknown variables?

Oh and Hammer beat a brand new CTS-V but according to Caddy's ratings (which some say is high and I agree, gotta love a failing companies marketing techniques) it should beat his car. A stock M5 on street tires ran better at Sac then this CTS_V who had better conditions yesterday. Go figure that one out if you can?

Hammer Down

He did manage a 12.7 @ 117, I think that was his best run of the day. He couldn't hook up with his PS2's. Funny thing is on one run I totally lost traction to the point where I had to completely let off throttle (I was trying the off idle smash technique) and once the car settled back down I nailed it and still manage a 117.9@12.7 so on my worst run I still beat that CTS-V on his best run. (not bragging just having fun with it) Once that guy learns how to drive it he will be both quick and fast!

bassn_07

Really, my bad I was going by what Jack said.... I was trying to figure out what was going on with my car.

MB_Forever

I knew you'd do it this time out..... Congrats Jack Regardless of what anyone else says, this is a great accomplishment People look at your times and think it is not possible for you to go any quicker/faster in your stock setup, but I look at your times and think there is no way you can't go any quicker/faster. If you can drop that 60' time from 1.72 to 1.64, you'll hit 11.6 and maybe even high 11.5s Unfortunately, many on here don't understand how hard it is getting decent ETs at Sacramento (thanks to Alan of course, who makes it look easy every time out ) or they would realize how amazing this accomplishment truly is. Sacramento is one of the hardest tracks to get a good launch at let alone a record run. Compared to other tracks, traction is always an issue even on good days.

It's funny how no one questioned your ETs when you were running 12.3s to 12.4s, then 12.2s to 12.3, then 12.1 to 12.2s, then 12.0 to 12.1s..... and as you got quicker and faster, the hate got bigger and more intense. Now that you have destroyed both ET and Trap records, things will get really ugly for you Some still don't understand that most of your success, as others have mentioned, comes from driver skill (very important), determination, good weather/DA, and finally lots of practice learning your car and learning to optimize each run. Those records don't come easy; one has to keep trying different combinations of lots of different things. Sometimes one will find suggestions that work but most of the times one will go through many that don't. Finding a good winning combo is indeed difficult. And there is no "magic" button or substitute for taking your car to the track and keep trying.

I had the pleasure of sharing part of your journey as I happened to be there when you ran your very first run and almost all the way till you ran your record runs. For those of you who think his car is not stock or that he bought it used with an ECU tune , I personally saw his registration paperwork dating back to when the car was first registered, not to mention... the guy keeps his hood open all the time for everyone to see and although many have examined his car over and over, some continues to instill doubt

Lastly, I know that many on here don't consider a good negative DA a big factor, but I have enough data from my car and others to show that it is. I ran my cars at five different tracks: Famoso, Sacramento, LACR (before it closed), Fontana, and Irwindale (once) and at every track event, I had a minimum of 20 runs I have timeslips of my car showing 13.1s @ 109 mph at Fontana (+3500 ft DA) to 12.1s at almost 119 mph at Sacramento in -400 ft DA. Can DA affect cars that much? Yes, it absolutely can.

Sorry for the long vent Jack, but I am just getting slightly tired of reading some of the negativity towards all the record holders around here. Some to the point that they considered to quit the board all together Those record holders inspire many of us, work very hard to attain those records, help others achieve their own personal goals, and continue to share their experiences with us.

So Jack, Alan, Ahmad, Juicee, Sal, and other record holders..... congrats on your solid record runs, and I have no doubt in my mind that you will each break those records even further
This is only the beginning guys

Mikesamg

Was that the run against you? That would explain why I saw all the bad ones since I was in the box doing my thing. Still that's low trap speeds for a car spinning off the line when it's suppose to be faster. I wasn't impressed, an M5 we saw a couple sessions back was doing better and it's suppose to be a tad slower correct? I'm thinking way too much low end power for the guy but also what size tire does that thing have in the back?

I still think the car is over rated from the factory which wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary.