My next mod....

Alright guys I decided my next will be cams. Pat from PTE gave me such a great deal that I couldn't pass it up...thanks Pat!!! I have no idea what my car will do with cams, faster, slower, who knows . All I do know its going to be fun finding out. This will most likely be my last season in my MB and I will try my best to beat my PB, but you never know

To be honest this is one mod that I thought I would never do but things change. I have this big mod hole through my stomach that never seems to get filled, all though it doesn't help that Blackbenz is constantly raising the bar . It guys like him, Chiro, Jody, Sal, and TheRicker that keeps the fire burning. One day we'll soon have our benz's in the 9's and 10's will be the thing of the past.

Do I ask myself "will this make me slower", of course there's always that possibility but I really don't think so. I may run into other factors like running out of fuel, IAT's, running out of exhaust, or whatever else may happen. If and when it does I'll deal with it and find the bottlenecks to go only faster in the end, like always.

For those who don't know I just recently added the ASP 185mm pulley, test pipe, and the Meziere pump. After these mods I'm slower than before due to the increase in IAT's which is either due to the Meziere pump that works horribly with my system or the 2 pounds of boost that was added to my car. Either way I'm going back to what worked in the past...2 CM30's. More testing will be done to find the culprit.

I figure at this point I'm not going to ever say "that's it" because these word are non existent to me. I must enjoy the feeling of the unknown because with each and every mod I second guess myself but yet still end up doing. Up to this point I've been very fortunate that most of my mods have proved to be a winner. Thanks to a lot of enthusiast on this forum. Chiromikey, Blackbenz, Vadim, James, Bruce from TTM, and Chris from Floored fab have been helping me out from the beginning of my journey. Just recently I met a few more guys that have been very helpful in continuing my journey - Sneakyneon, PTE, Tech Tune, and many many more. Also a huge thanks to my tech that has been a huge factor in getting me where I'm at. Thanks Scott!!!

A big thanks to all and like always I'll report back with my findings. Please feel free to chime in and say whatever. All opinions are welcomed except for the back stabbers that only spread lies and rumors trying to make others feel better . Sorry had to get that in.....

 

This is going to be my next mod, please post details and also your vendor experience, getting tired of 'mistakes' from other vendors.
Curious how this will impact emissions.

 

finally some hard facts will be known about the true performance pte/vrp cams provide. i TOTALLY respect and trust pte and vrus but besides rflow, nobody has ever provided any trustworthy data supporting the performance gains these cams offer a 55k motor...and i know there are more than a few people running them by now.

good luck buddy and i look forward to your post-install dyno and track data!

 

Can't wait to see you DESTROY your current PB!

 

I toyed with either going PTE or Kleemann cams ... It seems to me Kleemann are plug and play on a K4+ (or equivalent) tune. From what I have read PTE's require fine tuning to get the best out it - and seems to be a more agressive setup than either Kleemann & SLR. Not sure what Renntech use.

So I was not keen to start fine tuning my "tune" so went Kleemann, proven recipe and I had been in a car with them in. I was pretty impressed. Really smooth and great top end. Think 180mm and Kleemann work well - I expect possibly 185mm and PTE will work even better... but again you will need refinement of your tune.

I am still considering water injection. Made contact with someone who had done it sucessfully on their 55K. Well has blown a motor in the process (too much meth) but says the system works well when used with discretion and has been setup properly. Not sure if this requires ECU retune or "setup" only refers to the injection kit.... we shall see. Not too expensive to do given costs of other mods and claims of reducing IATS approx 30degC seem easily achievable with water only. With meth you can get them down much more but then you start pushing the envelope of reliability.

If I can get IATS down 30deg C I will be over the moon with this kit.

Anyhow back to the cams... All I can say is I am REALLY very happy with the Kleemann setup. Plug and play and the top end is superb now, with no discernable difference in torque in low / mid range... just feels car revs so much faster, and really changed the profile of the car quite a bit.

 

Nice, Alan! Can hardly wait to hear your thoughts on them!

 

Welcome to the club Alan. These cams are awesome. Your car is gonna pull REAL hard on the mid to upper power band. Pulls like a freight train. No plateau and no falling off. Pat does know his stuff. Cant wait to see the results. Good luck!!!

 

Did you ever dyno to see if you did actuly gain anything/track /race it or is this all just feel?

Thanks

and Alan good luck my man ;p

 

I have sat in a friends car that has cams and his car is stupid fast! Not to mention he is great friend with Pat and PTE and he has nothing but great things to say about him. Goodluck - and enjoy!

 

Actually thank you, I learned alot from our conversation.

Just wanted to share my experiences in regards to these cams:
After installing my PTE cams I noticed a 1.2 INCREASE in boost (which I actually thought would decrease)
Also, my A/F richened slightly from approximately 2800 to red-line (again thought it would lean out, not richen).

I realy don't understand the physics behind these cams, but one thing is certain, THEY ADD POWER.

Good luck Alan. I'm sure you'll find the winning combination to tear a new hole down the 1320.

 

Good luck Alan

Please keep us posted

 

Pat is da man!!! Very helpful and knowledgeable. I'm glad you went with his cams. Your car will lope now and will add to the badass sound! I can't wait to see you break more records!!! I'm sure your car will be faster with the cams. Are you going to do any headwork too?

Well I did dyno before/after cams dropping in and saw less than 5whp but this may be because of the tune or something. After I had it tuned with additional mods I dynod alot higher numbers. I just cant say it was all due to the cams although im sure they played a part. I'm sure Alan will have better before/after numbers to provide since he can isolate gains provided by the cams. I'm anxious to see the results!

 

I'm running K cams and from my experience it wakes up the mid rpm especially when you're on 3rd. Also reason i went with K is just in case i run into problems i don't get the run around from vendors.

 

Man you really have stumbled on a problem that I have been struggling with for years now

"Does a higher flow pump actually hurt cooling capacity of our cars or is it just my larger pump"

Had some guys run the math and claim it is proven that higher flowing pumps like the Johnson 90's run the coolant past the fins too fast for maximum removal of heat.

I would love to get to the bottom of this once and for all on your car Alan!!

If I read it correctly, you are gonna rip off the high flow pump and yet keep the larger pulley in place correct?

This will be awesome to see what a difference we get with those slower pumps but larger pulley.

If you STILL run the same times then I guess it is confirmed what Kleemann has been preaching for years. Larger pulleys are fun, but create too much heat for our horriffic "intercooler" stuck inside a motor design.

SO subscribing to this thread!! I am begging you to see this through.

I love to mod and do stuff first but my lack of good dynos up here has frustrated everyone on the forum for years.

Literally have to beg the local dyno guy to get on. He won't answer his phone. So if you can imagine me with flowers and bottle of wine showing up at his door. He is like, "Look, I really appreciate the flowers and the gifts, but don't be thinking you are gonna be getting anywhere with me tonight just because I have had a few drinks." Me, "Heh heh, we'll see. Bottoms up and where are those tie downs again?" Such is life in Utah dyno hell.

 

time for some roofies!

 

The cams do seem like the next logical step especially if combined with some head work; however, Mikey is right: there hasn't been any real hard data proving/showing any quantifiable gains with the addition of the VRP cams - yet anyways. This is a great opportunity to find out.

Alan, I'm thankful we have members here like you, Mikey, blackbenz, Pat, Bruce, Tech-Tune, and others who are willing to help others take the platform to new levels

 

That's awesome Alan! Sucks to hear that the 185 didn't get the job done. Hopefully the twin CM30's will get it back where it should be. Of those 2 variables I'm hoping that's the problem lol Hopefully "we" can get a good cooling solution for these cars in time. It's been a long time coming for the mercedes world.

Good luck!

 

Glad to see you push the envelope even further Alan! Funny I hear lil' Mice scurrying in the MB-UnderWorld floorboards whispering you already had Cams

 

I have the mezerie pump siting on my garage..I have not installed due to lack of mounting..

however.. i'm going to wait a bit more to see if I keep it or sell it.

I have bar and plate HE, and I know OEM uses your standard Tube and fin design.

In my case.. I'm looking for recovery time.. not really looking for the pump that can keep IAT's lower..

If the mezerie does not bring down temps.. but recovers faster.. thats all I need.

If water moves faster.. then it should recover quicker.. but not as efficient as a slower pump?

So if you are racing somebody in a lonely freeway.. after 2 pulls.. your IAT's will max out.. would you rather have a faster pump to recover quicker? or pump that would yield the lowest temps.. but takes 30 to 45 seconds plus to get back to normal temps?

I think maybe adding a 2nd small HE will probably help slow down the flow from a faster pump.

 

Congrats Alan............ Thanks for becoming a "Myth Buster" for 55k mods

 

Sal.... how's your car running now? Did you ever get a chance to look into the suspension issue we talked about? I hope to see you soon.... are you coming to this event?

 

Go Alan! I can see it in the not so distant future...first 55K to require a parachute. Good luck with the cams and I'm looking forward to seeing new records and PBs from your monster.

 

Alan, if your car was wicked fast, this new set up will make it stupid fast. To tell you the truth I was going to image the exact same set up you had if I hadn't decided to go the V12 route. Your efforts are greatly appreciated as always man, I hope this gives you great results man. Look forward to you breaking your PB!

 

When I took my car to Kleemann in Denmark they were pretty convinced my car would be running super hot with the 180mm pulley.

My car had rear reservoir, CM90 (rear mounted), Code3 & w220 additional rad.

They were really surprised to find it was running well within temp boundaries, and I was really annoyed I did not get the data from them on this. They used STAR to log the IATS on a road blast. Also on the dyno the rear tank barely got warm to the touch. When you got 10m of hose, 2 rads to get through I think a CM90 by no means pumps water "too fast to cool". Actual throughput in the system is a fraction of the rated pump flow rate. Simple way to test is to feel the pressure in the hoses when running - the harder the pipes the slower the flow is. There is a balancing act here but think more flow is better than too little.

Boost wise I dont think going above 180mm is going to add any real life benefit unless you do some additional direct IAT cooling like water injection / or change the I/C setup. Both tough solutions to get right. You also start running the S/C off its efficiency plateau and belt slip becomes an issue too. Power used to drive S/C is proabaly a wash with the additonal power you make from the additonal boost with the additional heat actually hurting real life power.

Did you ever dyno to see if you did actuly gain anything/track /race it or is this all just feel?

Seat of pants is all I have to go with at mom unfortunately. I would be very interested to see a dyno of the new setup. Ideally on Kleemans dyno - but I am not driving to Denmark for a dyno run !!! Hmmmm....

Car sure feels faster, but its tough to say especially if you have not driven the car for a while. Kleemann dyno had me 928Nm @ 3306 and 613 @ 5720 before cams. I suspect they should work better with a higher boost arrangement than Kleemann would see on their lower boost setup. I guess they claim of 10-15hp, cant recall their claims exactly, sound conservative really to my seat of pants - but maybe I am being fooled by the character of the engine which sure feels different. 5k rpm plus has zero let off. I have little doubt I am making more power ... I am more curious to see whats happened to the torque curve and the A/F ratio as well as IAT's...

One rule has not changed adding boost with a constant cooling arrangement will have marginal benefits, perhaps none if you push it too far.

 

Thanks guys for all the support. The cams will be going in soon along with a few other cooling mods that should help support my larger pulley. My re-tune will done towards the end of May and I'll post back some results.

There's one item that I'm on the fence about....titanium retainer rings. Most say to do it just because my tech will be right there, I need more then that to proceed. It's only a few hundred bucks but I need to fully understand the purpose of anything before it gets installed on my car. If any of you guys could fill me in on the pros/cons vs stock retainers it would be appreciated.

Just to note - I understand that they will allow for higher RPM's without valve float, but how and why? Thanks again guys and I honestly believe 10.4-10.5's will be here at traps near a 135 mph will soon be here.

I may also install a torque converter to help get me into the cams powerband a little quicker. Could anyone suggest a well known shop that makes them for our cars other than Eurocharge.