Luke_M

Havoc,

What did you use as your core for the intercoolers? To replace the old intercooler you bascially just have an open box that splits after it leaves the rear of the engine on it's way to the new intercoolers correct?

I can't tell how big those intercooler cores are compared to stock but I'd bet a dollar to a bag of donuts that they're bigger and would flow more then stock. Could be wrong.

Luke_M

As far as increaing output for a stock 55K SC I can relay this info. It comes from Haitham from superchargerperformance.com. Came highly recommended from a guy I sold the supercharged Z4 too. Take it for what it's worth.

I was told that it was dangerous to exceed the maximum RPM's for the supercharger so prolonged high RPMS and a super big pulley was potentially a bad mix. Problems included bearings going bad, rotor harm due to expansion from heat and the tight tolerances they have. Remember, this is before any intercooler action. He stated that rotors have been known to eat at each other and the housing causing boost leaks etc.

From my calculations a 190mm pulley put you at 13,722 rpms at 6500rpm engine speed. The supercharger was rated for 13,500 rpms.

That is according to this compressor map

https://mbworld.org/forums/3293028-post2.html

Now I can't confirm 100% that this is the exact specs for a 55k SC but it is what's been passed around. It was mentioned that superchargers have maximum constant rpm's and a max rpm for short periods of time. Say 13,500 and 14,000 for 10 seconds so it may be safe to exceed this for a short burst. To me this makes intuitive sense.

It was also mentioned to me that replacing the supercharger oil was a good idea especially if you're going to be giving it lots of heat. Like any "lifetime oil" it was though that replacing it around the 50k miles mark was a good idea. I believe it uses Mobil 1 Jet Oil II.

Hope that helps!

Forrest Gump 9

Have you actually see the IC core of the E55? It's patheticly small.

Forrest Gump 9

Jackpro1 already said that the stock SC spins at 23,000 rpm stock. And the Saudi are already running 210mm pulley. We are not trying out new things here. We just trying to put all the resource together.

Luke_M

I was talking about the clutch, not the internals. The gearing changes it to 23,000rpms JakPro1 provided the data sheet that showed a max rpm of 13,500. Just semantics though, I know. Also, I know they are running huge pullies but it doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Havoc

Yes, I basically have an open box that replaced my stock intercooler; however it has dual 3" piping to stop the turbulence and give the boost better direction which you can see in the pic below. It's sitting on top of the S/C.



These coolers were built with cooling and flow in mind. Each top mount cooler has the same size core as our stock intercooler, but has double the surface area and should flow more than double the amount of air. And that's just one!

They have yet to be tested and are unfinished. I plan on attaching some AMG name plates and going with a brushed finish with clear coat.

078.jpg?t=1275008574

Forrest Gump 9

Why didn't you use the stock IC in conjuction with the new ICs? By chance, do you know the size of the new ICs core? Thanks for the pics and new ideas.

Havoc

I didn't use the stock IC in conjunction with the new ICs because the stock IC is very restrictive with airflow and inefficient with cooling. If I would have kept it I would never see the full potential of the new ICs.

Sorry Blackbenzz for all the high jacking.

Guys please PM me if you have questions.

stevebez

Yes the OEM core is a real joke but I think I would have used the OEM I/C housing instead of the 2 pipes to feep the new I/C's ...

Havoc

I did some searching on the web and also read that our S/C is a highly efficient Lysholm-type supercharger manufactured by IHI. I also found that 1.8L in mention a few times on this forum but I can't confirm that anywhere else on the web.

Found these pics which might be of help.

stevebez

I always thought the C32K was a 1.8L and ours was a 2.3L I could be wrong tho?

MBH motorsports

havoc, what I dont get about the design on these top mounts is.. Why vadim didnt taper the end caps and slope the the metal down to direct the flow of air into the intake ports. rather than force it to bounce off a 90 degree angle.

When ever you are trying to guide any un-manned thing in a a direction. you want to deliberately guide it in the right direction.... I know that sounds like common sense, but its true. In this case its air flow. Your airflow needs to be deliberately manipulated to direct the flow of air into the intake ports.

Think of it as an A/C vent in your SL. By making an adjustment to the vents you can tell the air what way to flow... whether its directed right at your face or on your arm.

Well the same is true for your top mounts. If you pointed the direction of air down to the intake ports I would bet $100 you would see better results. Rather than having the air deflect off a a 90 degree wall.

I know your project is not done, So maybe you have time to take this small issue and have it addressed.

On a side note, if you look at the RENNtech top mounts. They slope the air flow down into to the intake ports. Also so does your stock surge tank... As it has something like a velocity stacks cast into it to help the air flow better.

Havoc

Yeah, I guess it was just easier to make them into a square box and call it a day. There are a few things that I'm going to have Evosport look into, like the rear section of that fabricated part that replaces my stock IC. I’m definitely going to have them go over my coolers along with my engine internals once they disassemble my engine to see if there are any improvements that can made.

Thanks for the input!

stevebez

I really admire your patience with your build !!

sneakyneon

Not sure the relevance to this topic but I have a 195mm pulley and on the dyno I saw peak IAT temps of 85f. This is with a Large HE, rear water tank and Water/meth (50%) and #10 nozzel. I the begining of the pull the temps would go below ambient by 2-5 degress and finnish aroud 5 over. So i feel it is possible to control IAT with a larger pulley. I'm playing with the idea of spraying a very small amouth through the Sc to help wih rotor temps and seal...

stevebez

and who said water - meth does not work on our cars!!!!!!

chiromikey

nice to see someone finally show positive results with chemical intercooling! are you worried about the corrosive nature of meth if you plumb a nozzle pre s/c? iirc, one of our s/c rotors has some type of coating.

sneakyneon

Supposedly Methonal is non crossive to SC rotor coatings(teflon) But you never know till you try?, Its not really pratical but i'd rather just be using water through the SC but I cant imagine pluming another tank to the that little of a job. As far as gains, It does cool but I have't seen an "large" power gains in dyno numbers or track times. Time will tell if the merits are there.

chiromikey

i've always been interested in this, not as much from a power adder standpoint but as a chemical intercooler since our oem set-up is so inadequate and we don't have room for anything else. my thought has been that previous attempts had the nozzle located in the wrong place (before the i/c) as this will tend to heat the i/c (if you're running ice in the reservoir) or cool the core rather than the intake air if you're not. i like the idea of plumbing it after the i/c which, iirc, is what you've done. either way, i'll be looking forward to more results!

MBH motorsports

I've got what could be a solution for this currently in the works. Us AZ guys need a something to combat this intercooler issue and we needed it yesterday.

chiromikey

looking forward mike, keep me posted!

MBH motorsports

Yeah I got a chance to study the stock intercooler. We all know its not in the ideal location, its kinda small, there is not a lot of room... It might take some trial and error, but it will get done. I'll hit you up when its done, maybe you can come out and check it out when I get it finished. BTW, lets get a beer soon....

Ali_E55

from the Mercedes Official web-site/AMG
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With the V8-KOMPRESSOR engine Mercedes-AMG has set a new standard. Its performance capability is not its only impressive feature. It also exhibits excellent power delivery which is designed for the highest dynamism without suppressing the effortless superiority of its generous 8 cylinders. Technical innovations are included: for example the mechanical turbocharger which is located between the two cylinder banks. Two aluminium shafts – one of which is coated with teflon – push up to 1850 kg of air per hour into the combustion chambers at a maximum engine speed of 23000 rpm. In the meantime the belt-driven supercharger is not running constantly but is activated by the engine speed and state of charge through an electromagnetic clutch. All this occurs in fractions of a second such that movements of the gas pedal are implemented almost instantaneously. The compact charging module contains an integrated charge air cooler which effectively cools down the air before it enters the combustion chambers. The low-temperature cooling unit, a powerful suction-type fan in the engine radiator and a separate oil cooler ensure that the supercharged engine functions within the optimum temperature range under all operational conditions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Last line is a lie lool, about the good cooling.

so it is a 1.85L S/C, but they are saying the S/C internal speed is 23k rpm when engine speed is 6500 rpm



check it


http://www.mercedes-amg.com/#/5-5l-v8-kompressor

dyno

they are putting again the IC in the same location



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... but this time it is bigger (maybe 3 times ) and its external case seems made of some kind of special heat-protecting material

with the cooled flow going through this .. snail




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