CPO dilemma (buyers remorse)
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Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
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From: California
E63 AMG
CPO dilemma (buyers remorse)
Last weekend while I was quick detailing the vehicle I noticed a smudge on the rear passenger door (below the side molding) that I couldn’t remove. After looking at it a little closer, I discovered that the entire lower portion of that door had a severe case of “orange peel”.
After further investigation, the “orange peel” was also discovered on the lower section of the driver’s side door and the lower section of the front passenger fender. At this point, I put a magnifying glass on everything. In addition to the “orange peel” discovery, I found the following:
· Embedded contamination within the finish (front passenger door, rear passenger molding), as though it was not painted in a filtered/pressurized spray booth)
· “Orange peel” along the side moldings
· Overspray on the exterior of the front passenger window
· The front passenger door appears lumpy. Particularly, near the areas of the molding. Not due to dents/dings but due to low quality body/paint work.
Overall, the appearance is unacceptable for a vehicle of this magnitude (Mercedes-Benz Certified Pre-Owned E63 AMG) and myself. I would expect something like this from a random used vehicle lot or a private seller but not a Certified Pre-Owned Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG Model. Given the fact that this is a Certified Pre-Owned Mercedes-Benz, I expect a much higher standard.
The resulting appearance of this vehicle questions the integrity of the certified pre-owned inspection process. When I traded in my Lexus GS300, the used car manager looked over the exterior of my vehicle with a magnifying glass. I would assume that the E63 that I took delivery of either went through an equivalent or more rigorous inspection when the dealer obtained the vehicle via auction, lease return, etc. If so, the dealer must’ve been aware that this vehicle was unacceptably re-painted on most (if not all) of the passenger’s side.
Would this be something that Merceded-Benz deems as acceptable? I'm not sure if I purchased the vehicle "as-is", I need to review my paperwork. I have emailed the used car manager and GM of the dealership but have not receive a response yet. I'd appreciate any useful feedback, thanks!
After further investigation, the “orange peel” was also discovered on the lower section of the driver’s side door and the lower section of the front passenger fender. At this point, I put a magnifying glass on everything. In addition to the “orange peel” discovery, I found the following:
· Embedded contamination within the finish (front passenger door, rear passenger molding), as though it was not painted in a filtered/pressurized spray booth)
· “Orange peel” along the side moldings
· Overspray on the exterior of the front passenger window
· The front passenger door appears lumpy. Particularly, near the areas of the molding. Not due to dents/dings but due to low quality body/paint work.
Overall, the appearance is unacceptable for a vehicle of this magnitude (Mercedes-Benz Certified Pre-Owned E63 AMG) and myself. I would expect something like this from a random used vehicle lot or a private seller but not a Certified Pre-Owned Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG Model. Given the fact that this is a Certified Pre-Owned Mercedes-Benz, I expect a much higher standard.
The resulting appearance of this vehicle questions the integrity of the certified pre-owned inspection process. When I traded in my Lexus GS300, the used car manager looked over the exterior of my vehicle with a magnifying glass. I would assume that the E63 that I took delivery of either went through an equivalent or more rigorous inspection when the dealer obtained the vehicle via auction, lease return, etc. If so, the dealer must’ve been aware that this vehicle was unacceptably re-painted on most (if not all) of the passenger’s side.
Would this be something that Merceded-Benz deems as acceptable? I'm not sure if I purchased the vehicle "as-is", I need to review my paperwork. I have emailed the used car manager and GM of the dealership but have not receive a response yet. I'd appreciate any useful feedback, thanks!
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From: THE Orange County, California
2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
Had a friend who bought an SL55 CPO and found a few months in that it was in an accident and repaired (prior to CPO)... he went back to the dealer and got a full unwind.
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From: California
E63 AMG
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 302
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From: California
E63 AMG
CarFax had no indications of an accident. I talked to my insurance rep and about CarFax and it basically won't tell you the collision history. It's up to the discretion of the auto body repair shop. Insurance companies don't report anything the CarFax. I think the only benefit to CarFax is to tell you if a car has ver been deemed a lemon or been salvaged. Other than that it's not going to give you much data. Please tell me otherwise?
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 89
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From: Dallas, TX
2014 BMW M5 CP
CarFax had no indications of an accident. I talked to my insurance rep and about CarFax and it basically won't tell you the collision history. It's up to the discretion of the auto body repair shop. Insurance companies don't report anything the CarFax. I think the only benefit to CarFax is to tell you if a car has ver been deemed a lemon or been salvaged. Other than that it's not going to give you much data. Please tell me otherwise?
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Joined: Jul 2008
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From: San Diego
2009 E63 w/P2 package, 2019 Infiniti QX80
Hey, I just went through this same thing. I went back to the dealer eight months later and told them to unwind the deal (cost of the car and tax, etc.). It is a california state law that a CPO can not have structural damage otherwise it is false advertisement (fraud). Send me a PM with your number and I will walk you through it.
Thank,
Peter
Thank,
Peter
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Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 302
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From: California
E63 AMG
No. The factory "orange peel" looks fine. The "orange peel" that I detected is horrible. I had 2 body shops confirmed that the entire passenger side was re-finished with very low quality.
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2002 CLK55 AMG Cabrio 2007 E63 AMG
wow, sorry to hear this is happening!
I would only suggest try being really pleasant and nice, but firm.
If you tick them off, or appear to be a jerk, they will be more likely to throw up roadblocks.
While the squeaky wheel may get the grease, the loud, whiny, obnoxious squeaky wheel gets boned in the ****.
You can always increase the level of negativity incrementally, if being the nice guy doesn't work.
case in point (although it doesn't rise to the level of your situation), my wifes qx56 I bought CPO last year, came with brand new wheels and tires (still had the nubs on them). 6 months later I notice the tires are halfway bald (these are supposed to be 40k tires, with only 7 k miles on them. I was ready to go kick some ****.
but I started really nicely, and pointed out this was the 4th Infiniti I've owned in 10 years, 2 of which I bought at their dealership. before I had a chance to start kicking ***, the service manager set me up with 4 brand new tires (and we're talking a thousand bucks a set), an alignment (which is where they screwed up on their CPO process), a full tank of gas and a detail.
I would only suggest try being really pleasant and nice, but firm.
If you tick them off, or appear to be a jerk, they will be more likely to throw up roadblocks.
While the squeaky wheel may get the grease, the loud, whiny, obnoxious squeaky wheel gets boned in the ****.
You can always increase the level of negativity incrementally, if being the nice guy doesn't work.
case in point (although it doesn't rise to the level of your situation), my wifes qx56 I bought CPO last year, came with brand new wheels and tires (still had the nubs on them). 6 months later I notice the tires are halfway bald (these are supposed to be 40k tires, with only 7 k miles on them. I was ready to go kick some ****.
but I started really nicely, and pointed out this was the 4th Infiniti I've owned in 10 years, 2 of which I bought at their dealership. before I had a chance to start kicking ***, the service manager set me up with 4 brand new tires (and we're talking a thousand bucks a set), an alignment (which is where they screwed up on their CPO process), a full tank of gas and a detail.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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From: Justin, Texas
2003 CL55
Ok, I've had 2 CPO's, an 05 E55 and a 08E63.. CPO cars can only have painwork on the front/rear bumper covers if they are replaced. no other painwork is acceptable.. I would go raise the issue with the dealership GM. They should have caught this, and either sold w/o CPO or wholesaled it off the lot. Pursue a full unwind less a reasonable amount for use or wear and tear. Ask them to locate a commensurate vehicle.
Good luck... If this does not work, I guess you could pursure through MBUSA with an Attorney.
Good luck... If this does not work, I guess you could pursure through MBUSA with an Attorney.
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From: Arizona
2004 E55, 1997 E320 "Sold"
Sucks man. It is going to be a battle to have them undo the deal, but if you are persistent one way or another and they are at fault than you should be able to come out well. Do not let them bull**** you around or threaten you either, tell them what the problem is and what you want done, but be courteous. Good look.
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From: Northern VA
W211
wow, CPO vehicle with body damage and bad orange peel. Def try to get them to unwind the deal and either find you something similar or you continue the search on your own. Hope it all works out for you.
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Car free at the moment
The Mercedes Starmark/CPO standard is that cars cannot have frame damage and then be certified. Fender bender repair does not eliminate a car from being certified. So it seems unlikely that you have an out there.
Did you receive the CPO inspection report for the car? Back in the Starmark days MB had a standard inspection form which the customer received. Does it note that paintwork was done, and is not to normal MB quality standards? If there is no notation, this may be your best approach, as the car was misrepresented to you.
Good luck. I had a similar experience many years ago with my local MB dealer. They were completely unwilling to do anything, and accordingly have lost all my business forever. When I looked at the value of my time vs. the harm done, I decided not to pursue them, it simply didn't make economic sense. But that was on a utilitarian station wagon which nobody really expects to be in perfect condition, not an enthusiasts car.
Did you receive the CPO inspection report for the car? Back in the Starmark days MB had a standard inspection form which the customer received. Does it note that paintwork was done, and is not to normal MB quality standards? If there is no notation, this may be your best approach, as the car was misrepresented to you.
Good luck. I had a similar experience many years ago with my local MB dealer. They were completely unwilling to do anything, and accordingly have lost all my business forever. When I looked at the value of my time vs. the harm done, I decided not to pursue them, it simply didn't make economic sense. But that was on a utilitarian station wagon which nobody really expects to be in perfect condition, not an enthusiasts car.
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E CLASS
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From: Georgia
E 63S Wagon Renntech, E55 Renntech, SL65, SL 55 030, ML, bunch of old ones--they come, they go...
Actually ...
I believe the standard for CPO is no more than 2 panels painted, and yes, no frame damage. You don't need this "magnifying glass" mess, you need a quality paint meter to check it against the other panels. I have tried to tell you guys all along that MB CPO isn't awful, just not infallible or perfect. Yes, some stores cut corners. If you exercised your due diligence in checking it out, prepurchase, then probaly not too much that you can do. I would not throw an otherwise nice car in the trash over some paintwork, IF I could be satisified that it was properly and nicely redone.
If everyone here knew how much paintwork went on at the VPC before you got your car, you'd all have a stroke. I agree with the fellow above, a big negative explosion will get you less than a courteous "let's chat about this" attitude. At the very least, why don't you ask the for some $$ to get your area's best body shop to refinish it? And get pictures before! No satisifaction, or a terrible attitude? Then move up the food chain. They are agents for MBUSA, though at that point, New Jersey will deny the agency. Good luck.
If everyone here knew how much paintwork went on at the VPC before you got your car, you'd all have a stroke. I agree with the fellow above, a big negative explosion will get you less than a courteous "let's chat about this" attitude. At the very least, why don't you ask the for some $$ to get your area's best body shop to refinish it? And get pictures before! No satisifaction, or a terrible attitude? Then move up the food chain. They are agents for MBUSA, though at that point, New Jersey will deny the agency. Good luck.
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Joined: May 2010
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From: California
E63 AMG
UPDATE
I am going to keep the dealer confidential.
I had a meeting with the GM today and he was very sorry for the entire mess. They plan on sending my car to a body shop tomorrow to perform a thorough inspection. If there is any indication of framework damage or pre-existing framework repair he will take back the vehicle because that is not up to par with the CPO standard.
If the vehicle does not have any framework damage or pre-existing framework damage as a good will courtesy they would re-finish the car to bring it back to "new".
Although he would not document it, the GM did offer a potential option of exchanging the vehicle if I am not fully satisfied.
I had a meeting with the GM today and he was very sorry for the entire mess. They plan on sending my car to a body shop tomorrow to perform a thorough inspection. If there is any indication of framework damage or pre-existing framework repair he will take back the vehicle because that is not up to par with the CPO standard.
If the vehicle does not have any framework damage or pre-existing framework damage as a good will courtesy they would re-finish the car to bring it back to "new".
Although he would not document it, the GM did offer a potential option of exchanging the vehicle if I am not fully satisfied.
Thread Starter
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From: California
E63 AMG
I believe the standard for CPO is no more than 2 panels painted, and yes, no frame damage. You don't need this "magnifying glass" mess, you need a quality paint meter to check it against the other panels. I have tried to tell you guys all along that MB CPO isn't awful, just not infallible or perfect. Yes, some stores cut corners. If you exercised your due diligence in checking it out, prepurchase, then probaly not too much that you can do. I would not throw an otherwise nice car in the trash over some paintwork, IF I could be satisified that it was properly and nicely redone.
If everyone here knew how much paintwork went on at the VPC before you got your car, you'd all have a stroke. I agree with the fellow above, a big negative explosion will get you less than a courteous "let's chat about this" attitude. At the very least, why don't you ask the for some $$ to get your area's best body shop to refinish it? And get pictures before! No satisifaction, or a terrible attitude? Then move up the food chain. They are agents for MBUSA, though at that point, New Jersey will deny the agency. Good luck.
If everyone here knew how much paintwork went on at the VPC before you got your car, you'd all have a stroke. I agree with the fellow above, a big negative explosion will get you less than a courteous "let's chat about this" attitude. At the very least, why don't you ask the for some $$ to get your area's best body shop to refinish it? And get pictures before! No satisifaction, or a terrible attitude? Then move up the food chain. They are agents for MBUSA, though at that point, New Jersey will deny the agency. Good luck.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,619
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From: Georgia
E 63S Wagon Renntech, E55 Renntech, SL65, SL 55 030, ML, bunch of old ones--they come, they go...
VPC is...
Vehicle Preparation Center. The Port. If you have never been, (and they don't want anyone in the building anymore), you would be amazed at the number of cars that are scratcehd, dinged, dented, have fluid leaked on them, etc. The highest paid jobs at the VPC are paint/bodywork specialists.
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From: arlington, va
2005 c55
Nice work.
Seems like the dealer is standing behind the CPO and doing what was right. Keep us posted. What would you like to see happen? Would you rather just be able to get out of the car all together or would you be OK with them repairing it?
Seems like the dealer is standing behind the CPO and doing what was right. Keep us posted. What would you like to see happen? Would you rather just be able to get out of the car all together or would you be OK with them repairing it?
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From: California
E63 AMG
UPDATE 2
The GM called me back and offered to do a collateral transfer. Basically, swap out the vehicle. When I bought my E63 there were two that were exactly the same for the same price. The only difference is that one of them had an iPod connector and the other had distronic (without the iPod connector). I bought the one with distronic. The opposite vehicle is the one he wants me to swap it out for.
Any thoughts.
Any thoughts.
