Infraction and probation for posting experiences with a Product?
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Toronto
CLS63 PP
Infraction and probation for posting experiences with a Product?
Just wanted to bring up an issue with getting "an infraction" and being put "on probation" for posting my support of the PLM headers in the header poll thread started by Bramage. Apparently because I called them "knock off's" of Renntech, meaning they are similar in design I am breaking the rules of the board( Advertising a knock off product). Seems my evil plot to support Chinese copy artists has been discoved. Can I ask WTF?
The OP, Bramage, actually pm'ed to thank me and is ordering a set based on my recommendation. My sole purpose in posting was to help another member of this board based on my experience. You know, like the whole purpose of having a message board....
While myself and many others have commented on the similarity of the PLM headers to the Renntech headers, no one has ever actually confirmed they were direct knock offs. I mean, they are headers, there are only some many ways for the pipes to bend and fit. Also PLM stands for private lable manufacturing. How do we know they do not make them for renntech? I am certain they make the Heat Exchanger sold by ACG( sponsor on this board). If they were some forgery being passed off I can understand, but there is no lawsuit or cease and dissist from Renntech is there?
Bottom line I am quite pissed that because I took the time to help somone and post( as I have done for a number of new products I was the first to try by spending my money and time) I am now being penalized. If the admins of this board care to censor and penalize posting and sharing information they might as well close their forum down...
Rant over..
The OP, Bramage, actually pm'ed to thank me and is ordering a set based on my recommendation. My sole purpose in posting was to help another member of this board based on my experience. You know, like the whole purpose of having a message board....
While myself and many others have commented on the similarity of the PLM headers to the Renntech headers, no one has ever actually confirmed they were direct knock offs. I mean, they are headers, there are only some many ways for the pipes to bend and fit. Also PLM stands for private lable manufacturing. How do we know they do not make them for renntech? I am certain they make the Heat Exchanger sold by ACG( sponsor on this board). If they were some forgery being passed off I can understand, but there is no lawsuit or cease and dissist from Renntech is there?
Bottom line I am quite pissed that because I took the time to help somone and post( as I have done for a number of new products I was the first to try by spending my money and time) I am now being penalized. If the admins of this board care to censor and penalize posting and sharing information they might as well close their forum down...
Rant over..
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
There is a fine line between helping members out and messing with the sponsor program. Now I didn't read what you posted but I know that I have posted my opinions on many new or under development items and never had an issue. I can also promise you that NO MANUFACTURER would sell you the same part that they make for RennTech. Do you have a clue how many people tried to buy the electronics behind the ELMs?
If this PLM is as top notch as you claim, then they should become sponsors here. If they are going to be distributors or manufacturers, then they should not be selling to the end user (as with ACG). I find your statement irresponsible as it implies that there is nothing different in the HE from ACG and the one purchased directly from PLM, since we really don't know what type of customer service PLM provides.
If this PLM is as top notch as you claim, then they should become sponsors here. If they are going to be distributors or manufacturers, then they should not be selling to the end user (as with ACG). I find your statement irresponsible as it implies that there is nothing different in the HE from ACG and the one purchased directly from PLM, since we really don't know what type of customer service PLM provides.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
I was replying to your last post, by the time I posted my reply.. Your thread was gone.. So in turn I just deleted my post reply, thinking you must have deleted it.
I always wondered why the guys who were selling PLM stuff got banned?
As for the PLM & RENNtech issue. I talk to Renntech daily, They are aware of the PLM headers. I don't know if there is anything RENNtech can do. BUT, its good the board is looking out for things that maybe a copy of someone else's hard work. With that said, I don't think anyone thinks you have a vested interest in the PLM product. In fact I thought your posts were rather genuine in my eyes.
Granted I have reservations of a shorty making those kind of numbers, but thats besides the point. I've conversed with you in some thread, under my other name MBH motorsports, I see it as you being just another member with the mod bug, like most of us have.
IMO, If I can be frank, There are crazy things that happen on this board, Like Back door MHP advertising... From people who are directly in cahoots with MHP.
I think if they are going to stick you on a probation for talking about a banned product, why don't they do that to MHP products?
I hope this issue gets resolved for you fast, It looks like a simple case of you didnt (nor did I for that matter) know someone couldn't talk about PLM's stuff?
I always wondered why the guys who were selling PLM stuff got banned?
As for the PLM & RENNtech issue. I talk to Renntech daily, They are aware of the PLM headers. I don't know if there is anything RENNtech can do. BUT, its good the board is looking out for things that maybe a copy of someone else's hard work. With that said, I don't think anyone thinks you have a vested interest in the PLM product. In fact I thought your posts were rather genuine in my eyes.
Granted I have reservations of a shorty making those kind of numbers, but thats besides the point. I've conversed with you in some thread, under my other name MBH motorsports, I see it as you being just another member with the mod bug, like most of us have.
IMO, If I can be frank, There are crazy things that happen on this board, Like Back door MHP advertising... From people who are directly in cahoots with MHP.
I think if they are going to stick you on a probation for talking about a banned product, why don't they do that to MHP products?
I hope this issue gets resolved for you fast, It looks like a simple case of you didnt (nor did I for that matter) know someone couldn't talk about PLM's stuff?
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Toronto
CLS63 PP
I have no interest here but helping people find well performing products for good prices( ie not one subject to the standard mercedes tax). I paid for a product, I installed it, I dyno'ed it before and after.. to help share my experience and for others to decide on a product without spending their time and money to do so. What a bad guy I am because I might have pissed off a sponsor.
The only reason I am a supporter of PLM products is they made a huge difference on my car, dyno proven. Period. If they made 15whp, I would have been...meh. I found them to be well made, easy to install, and well performing. All for the best price I could find. So ya, I like them and recommend them. Others swear by MBH, looks like a great product and great power. If I was looking to spend money on long tubes( and deal with the additional install work), I would go with them because I respect the opinion of others who recommended them.
If the site admins only motivation is their revenue stream from the sponsorship program then there should be a huge disclaimer that the sharing of information is subject to their censorship if it conflicts with some of their sposor sales. If that is truly the case then they can suck my nuts and I am out of here..as should be anyone with any interest in the free sharing of information on the internet. Bottom line I am being penalized for "promoting a knock off product" despite no proof it's a knock off, so this is hardly an unbiased response and clearly an abuse of a user of the forum trying to help others.
The only reason I am a supporter of PLM products is they made a huge difference on my car, dyno proven. Period. If they made 15whp, I would have been...meh. I found them to be well made, easy to install, and well performing. All for the best price I could find. So ya, I like them and recommend them. Others swear by MBH, looks like a great product and great power. If I was looking to spend money on long tubes( and deal with the additional install work), I would go with them because I respect the opinion of others who recommended them.
If the site admins only motivation is their revenue stream from the sponsorship program then there should be a huge disclaimer that the sharing of information is subject to their censorship if it conflicts with some of their sposor sales. If that is truly the case then they can suck my nuts and I am out of here..as should be anyone with any interest in the free sharing of information on the internet. Bottom line I am being penalized for "promoting a knock off product" despite no proof it's a knock off, so this is hardly an unbiased response and clearly an abuse of a user of the forum trying to help others.
Last edited by KLR CLS; Aug 24, 2010 at 12:34 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Southern California
E55 w/ goods, Z32 Project underway
If this PLM is as top notch as you claim, then they should become sponsors here. If they are going to be distributors or manufacturers, then they should not be selling to the end user (as with ACG). I find your statement irresponsible as it implies that there is nothing different in the HE from ACG and the one purchased directly from PLM, since we really don't know what type of customer service PLM provides.
Look at how much bashing Eurocharge receives here. Difference being?????
I have heard nothing but good things on the PLM items and if your statement on customer service holds true, then surely there must be something wrong here as the level of service many here have received from more than a few sponsors is NOT what I would consider even decent. Of course there are a few with great customer service as well.
Last edited by pearlpower; Aug 24, 2010 at 01:25 AM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
I disagree, considering how much mud it tossed around on this forum, ongoing personal attacks, etc. yet a simple product comment even if not negative results in infractions is just pure ridiculous. There are many that sell fine products that prefer NOT to pay the premiums of sponsorship and I do not blame them one bit.
I have no dog in this race and I am no fan of RTs. I'm just being honest.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Southern California
E55 w/ goods, Z32 Project underway
I think what so many are missing here is that the questionable headers are a copy cat of a model which took money to design. If the members that are being reprimanded were voicing how great a legitimate part is then it would be a different story.
I have no dog in this race and I am no fan of RTs. I'm just being honest.
I have no dog in this race and I am no fan of RTs. I'm just being honest.
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Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 327
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From: Isla Verde, Puerto Rico
SRT-6
I got probation (now expired) for non vendor advertising. I was surprised but after thinking a while I relented to the possibility that I was wrong. What made me upset was the person that sanctioned me uses this forum frequently to sell things to others. All his posts are admonishing someone for lack of information or something for sale. I guess he's a vendor as well as a moderator. Anyway, it's not my ball so I can't take it home or make the rules. So, give it a few days, calm down, and decide later if all the great people here are enough to put up with ...... infractions for what seem like unjust causes. I understood the infraction as a serious thing, perhaps the infraction givers think of it as a courtesy before something more serious.
Les
Les
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From: The Bay Area...Cali
05 E55 AMG
I belong to a few other forums, (2 motorcycle forums, and another auto forum) and I have never heard of anyone being banned for advertising a product that wasn't from a sponsor, this just shows that one of the vendors is high enough on top that they can make their own rules. I don't see how KLR CLS did anything wrong, he wasn't trying to sell PLM's product, he was just giving his opinion and trying to help another member.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Dallas, TX
2007 E63, 2005 Dodge Ram Hemi
I think what so many are missing here is that the questionable headers are a copy cat of a model which took money to design. If the members that are being reprimanded were voicing how great a legitimate part is then it would be a different story.
I have no dog in this race and I am no fan of RTs. I'm just being honest.
I have no dog in this race and I am no fan of RTs. I'm just being honest.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
I don't either, but on the same lines, shouldn't everyone be given an infraction for talking about the Star knock offs..? I mean those are exact copies of another companies technology too...Everything gets knocked off eventually, it's just the way it is...Then people get to choose whether to pay a premium for the real thing or get a good deal on the "other" brand...
Super Member
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2006 s65. Ford Excursion 6.0. Pontiac GTO convertible. Porsche 944 Turbo SCCA car. Wife-E550 and 968
the term "knock offs" to me implies a visual copy but generally made of inferior quality materials. A "knock off" Rolex ain't no Rolex, either in quality or service. I know my wife bought a "knock off" of a 5k bag for 200 bucks, it looked the same but was a piece of cr*p. Buying Renntech, you are buying high quality materials, and you are also buying a strong reputation for backing their products. I personally consider the term "knock offs" to be an insult more than an endorsement...If I were a mod I might rethink that policy.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Dallas, TX
2007 E63, 2005 Dodge Ram Hemi
Do you mean the SDS Star knock offs? Hmmmm, not exactly apples to apples, but a fine analogy. I'm not here to say who should or should't get an infraction. My argument was about the general concept of knocking off vs a design becoming dated and re-branded. You are absolutely right that we (consumers) should have choices and that eventually there are premium brands and "others". However, this is a case where a company has openly copied a design from an established company that took notice. Supporting this business model only makes the options that we have less. All of a sudden the RTs of the world will only make a few parts and charge a butt load for them. In the end, we will pay. You can pay in cash or you can pay with tail, but you're gonna pay..
Another part of the reason I'm dumping this thing one month before warranty runs out 
MBWorld Fanatic!
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OH I wasn't disagreeing with you so much as just saying from another POV...I will opt for the "real" product probably 95% of the time unless its something stupid, and that applies to everything I buy not just car related...The real shame is that the market on this stuff is already so small...I mean hell, the IS-F guys are getting ceramic coated Long Tubes for $1300..!?!?!?!? AND they only have one vendor making them so far WTF, but it's at least $3K uncoated on my 63... Another part of the reason I'm dumping this thing one month before warranty runs out
Another part of the reason I'm dumping this thing one month before warranty runs out 
That right there creates the market for off brands. The argument then is the name brand headers are quality units. Well, there have been reports of these 'quality' headers cracking as well. On top of that, it was fine to discuss this brand when they were sponsors a little while back.............AND these KNOCKS OFFS EVEN COSTS MORE THAN KLEEMANNS!Go figure.
Last edited by pearlpower; Aug 25, 2010 at 01:19 PM.
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Slow
OH I wasn't disagreeing with you so much as just saying from another POV...I will opt for the "real" product probably 95% of the time unless its something stupid, and that applies to everything I buy not just car related...The real shame is that the market on this stuff is already so small...I mean hell, the IS-F guys are getting ceramic coated Long Tubes for $1300..!?!?!?!? AND they only have one vendor making them so far WTF, but it's at least $3K uncoated on my 63... Another part of the reason I'm dumping this thing one month before warranty runs out
Another part of the reason I'm dumping this thing one month before warranty runs out 
Last edited by gonzales25; Aug 25, 2010 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Spelling
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Dallas, TX
2007 E63, 2005 Dodge Ram Hemi
Only thing I've heard is that the interior is a bit cheaper than it looks, so don't expect it to hold up as well..?? I definitely like them, but I'm leaning towards an IS-F so I can at least have something a little more competent on the track...That and the WAY better mod prices over a C63...
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Slow
I don't know about crazy...Pretty easy to make them run like scalded cats Only thing I've heard is that the interior is a bit cheaper than it looks, so don't expect it to hold up as well..?? I definitely like them, but I'm leaning towards an IS-F so I can at least have something a little more competent on the track...That and the WAY better mod prices over a C63...
Only thing I've heard is that the interior is a bit cheaper than it looks, so don't expect it to hold up as well..?? I definitely like them, but I'm leaning towards an IS-F so I can at least have something a little more competent on the track...That and the WAY better mod prices over a C63...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,347
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From: Dallas, TX
2007 E63, 2005 Dodge Ram Hemi
Also not a huge fan of the FAKE tips, but Greddy may make one with real tips...You can also pull the stocks and put CF's on...Other than I think they looks as good as the C or M and with LT's, exhaust, and intake they are putting 420-430 at the wheels...Should be fun on track...
Last edited by citylightva; Aug 25, 2010 at 10:56 AM.
