Torque Management issues
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,224
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From: S.E. FLA.
05 ML-500 , 03 CLK5.5 AMG has left the Garage
Torque Management issues
Hello all:
Well I finally got to the Track, To test out my updated ECU & TCU I wanted the RPM limiter raised to 6800 rpm . But It seem to only go up there 1st thru 2nd . 1 too 2 shift is good & firm in dyno mode. I have the Blue top solenoids, and did a Complete trans service. ( no metal or clutch plate particals). just a 1000 miles ago. 2nd to 3rd , the shift hesitates badly. so bad everybody asks why I am letting out of throttle. I'm using 275/40-17 Mickey Drag radials. But this also happens withStreet tire is sport mode.
Here are some videos. Every body has good comments on the Exhaust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPQRYOojCjs
[the one above here you can here the 2nd to 3rd shift lag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-4rwGlCHjQ
This one I was holding a steady throttle throttle , then it would stat to slow up , I would tip in more throttle . but it just start to pull back until I released the brakes , then it would increase the rpm on he roll out.
Any Thoughts
Cheers _PTEngineering
Well I finally got to the Track, To test out my updated ECU & TCU I wanted the RPM limiter raised to 6800 rpm . But It seem to only go up there 1st thru 2nd . 1 too 2 shift is good & firm in dyno mode. I have the Blue top solenoids, and did a Complete trans service. ( no metal or clutch plate particals). just a 1000 miles ago. 2nd to 3rd , the shift hesitates badly. so bad everybody asks why I am letting out of throttle. I'm using 275/40-17 Mickey Drag radials. But this also happens withStreet tire is sport mode.
Here are some videos. Every body has good comments on the Exhaust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPQRYOojCjs
[the one above here you can here the 2nd to 3rd shift lag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-4rwGlCHjQ
This one I was holding a steady throttle throttle , then it would stat to slow up , I would tip in more throttle . but it just start to pull back until I released the brakes , then it would increase the rpm on he roll out.
Any Thoughts
Cheers _PTEngineering
Last edited by PTE; Dec 26, 2010 at 02:05 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,909
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From: San Diego
F-250
Here is a working link to his first vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-4rw..._order&list=UL
I do not hear the issue, however I would look at tune.
I had a very similar issue after a tune and it was fixed with my next visit.
I was actually cutting fuel just before redline, and it coincided with the shiftpoint at WOT. So the way it felt was like a hesitation on the shift, when in fact it was just a fuel managenet issue. The minute I told Jeremy what was happening he said: I know what it is, come see me. Problem solved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-4rw..._order&list=UL
I do not hear the issue, however I would look at tune.
I had a very similar issue after a tune and it was fixed with my next visit.
I was actually cutting fuel just before redline, and it coincided with the shiftpoint at WOT. So the way it felt was like a hesitation on the shift, when in fact it was just a fuel managenet issue. The minute I told Jeremy what was happening he said: I know what it is, come see me. Problem solved.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,697
Likes: 381
2005 E55
Try this next time.
S mode with s2 suspension
D with traction control on,do not reset anything and go there with the tranny fully adapted.
Om my car this has worked the best for me and it wont short shift.make sure the car is in d and not have the number 1 on the dash,mine will short shift if its in 1
S mode with s2 suspension
D with traction control on,do not reset anything and go there with the tranny fully adapted.
Om my car this has worked the best for me and it wont short shift.make sure the car is in d and not have the number 1 on the dash,mine will short shift if its in 1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 4
From: California, USA
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Hello all:
Well I finally got to the Track, To test out my updated ECU & TCU I wanted the RPM limiter raised to 6800 rpm . But It seem to only go up there 1st thru 2nd . 1 too 2 shift is good & firm in dyno mode. I have the Blue top solenoids, and did a Complete trans service. ( no metal or clutch plate particals). just a 1000 miles ago. 2nd to 3rd , the shift hesitates badly. so bad everybody asks why I am letting out of throttle. I'm using 275/40-17 Mickey Drag radials. But this also happens withStreet tire is sport mode.
Here are some videos. Every body has good comments on the Exhaust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPQRYOojCjs
[the one above here you can here the 2nd to 3rd shift lag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-4rwGlCHjQ
This one I was holding a steady throttle throttle , then it would stat to slow up , I would tip in more throttle . but it just start to pull back until I released the brakes , then it would increase the rpm on he roll out.
Any Thoughts
Cheers _PTEngineering
Well I finally got to the Track, To test out my updated ECU & TCU I wanted the RPM limiter raised to 6800 rpm . But It seem to only go up there 1st thru 2nd . 1 too 2 shift is good & firm in dyno mode. I have the Blue top solenoids, and did a Complete trans service. ( no metal or clutch plate particals). just a 1000 miles ago. 2nd to 3rd , the shift hesitates badly. so bad everybody asks why I am letting out of throttle. I'm using 275/40-17 Mickey Drag radials. But this also happens withStreet tire is sport mode.
Here are some videos. Every body has good comments on the Exhaust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPQRYOojCjs
[the one above here you can here the 2nd to 3rd shift lag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-4rwGlCHjQ
This one I was holding a steady throttle throttle , then it would stat to slow up , I would tip in more throttle . but it just start to pull back until I released the brakes , then it would increase the rpm on he roll out.
Any Thoughts
Cheers _PTEngineering
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 6
From: S.E. FLA.
05 ML-500 , 03 CLK5.5 AMG has left the Garage
Torque Management Issues
MB Forever
Do you have a TCU tune as well or just an ECU tune? Does this happen only under WOT or also under daily driving? If you want to eliminate the tune as a cause, it maybe worth it to try to duplicate this on a stock tune.
Both ECU & TCU were done by a very repetible Tuner. I happens only at WOT . either on the street with Street tire & at the track with Drag Radials, in Dyno mode or S-Mode. Funny Thing about the ECU re-flash. I lost 20 hp !! I called them after a dyno and was told that is coused by something else. Same dyno same operator, same gas in the tank, and after running at the track I end up with 1/10 slower time & 4 mph short. I think you are right, it feels like fuel shut off & the throttle is being pulled back on the 2nd to 3rd shift and 3rd to 4th is just slow like stock. Now that being said. I went to a OE Tuning day in West Palm Beach. Jeremy found about 30 hp in the middle of the curve. But I never mention about the torque management issue. Jeremy did not do the Tune on the ECU or the TCU that is giving me the issue. I'm very please with what he did for me. Cheers _PTEngineering
Do you have a TCU tune as well or just an ECU tune? Does this happen only under WOT or also under daily driving? If you want to eliminate the tune as a cause, it maybe worth it to try to duplicate this on a stock tune.
Both ECU & TCU were done by a very repetible Tuner. I happens only at WOT . either on the street with Street tire & at the track with Drag Radials, in Dyno mode or S-Mode. Funny Thing about the ECU re-flash. I lost 20 hp !! I called them after a dyno and was told that is coused by something else. Same dyno same operator, same gas in the tank, and after running at the track I end up with 1/10 slower time & 4 mph short. I think you are right, it feels like fuel shut off & the throttle is being pulled back on the 2nd to 3rd shift and 3rd to 4th is just slow like stock. Now that being said. I went to a OE Tuning day in West Palm Beach. Jeremy found about 30 hp in the middle of the curve. But I never mention about the torque management issue. Jeremy did not do the Tune on the ECU or the TCU that is giving me the issue. I'm very please with what he did for me. Cheers _PTEngineering
Last edited by PTE; Dec 26, 2010 at 05:56 PM.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,380
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From: Toronto
CLS63 PP
Mine used to do the same thing, but Jerry's new tune solved all that for me. The before and after shift throttle cuts and fueling are adjusted and now it goes like an animal into 3rd. Contact Jerry at EC.
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Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 129
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From: Mississippi
996 Guards red / 2008 Hayabusa / 2004 E55 AMG
Try this next time.
S mode with s2 suspension
D with traction control on,do not reset anything and go there with the tranny fully adapted.
Om my car this has worked the best for me and it wont short shift.make sure the car is in d and not have the number 1 on the dash,mine will short shift if its in 1
S mode with s2 suspension
D with traction control on,do not reset anything and go there with the tranny fully adapted.
Om my car this has worked the best for me and it wont short shift.make sure the car is in d and not have the number 1 on the dash,mine will short shift if its in 1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,697
Likes: 381
2005 E55
My best times are with the car in those modes I mentioned above.
If I reset the tcu the car would spin like crazzy and if I tried any other mode the car would short shift the gears.
Yes the tc light is on but it dosnt cut all the power.It also depends on how much power the car is making also.
If the track is well prepped leave the tc on and in D,I also run kleemann tuning so I dont know if those settings will work the same on other tunes.
With tc off I spin like mad.
If I reset the tcu the car would spin like crazzy and if I tried any other mode the car would short shift the gears.
Yes the tc light is on but it dosnt cut all the power.It also depends on how much power the car is making also.
If the track is well prepped leave the tc on and in D,I also run kleemann tuning so I dont know if those settings will work the same on other tunes.
With tc off I spin like mad.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 661
Likes: 3
From: Saudi Arabia - Qatif
Brabus K8 E55 05
I have similar issue but I don't know if it is torque management or not, this is after first tune done for the car and it become clear when I installed the TB 82 
.
Someone suggested me to chage the solenoids, but I don't know if the one that is on the E55 is blue one or something else, he said get the Maybach ones (i think they are the blue ones according to one of the threads here in this forum)
I have worst delay in shifting and drop in power just after the shift by time, it means , i am at losing 1 second (at least) in shifting,
When i use M Mode the shift is hard and if there is friction between gearing parts.
.Someone suggested me to chage the solenoids, but I don't know if the one that is on the E55 is blue one or something else, he said get the Maybach ones (i think they are the blue ones according to one of the threads here in this forum)
I have worst delay in shifting and drop in power just after the shift by time, it means , i am at losing 1 second (at least) in shifting,
When i use M Mode the shift is hard and if there is friction between gearing parts.
Last edited by ahmad0658; Dec 27, 2010 at 06:02 AM.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,305
Likes: 93
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
Pat, I know exactly what you are taking about. I too had the major shift lag/ slippage at WOT. To make a long story short, My clutch pack was shot. Sadly it will only get worse. Here is a video of my old C55 slipping from 1st to 2nd. It sounds like Im letting off or something, but thats just the clutch packs slipping.
How are your down shifts with the blue tops? Does your motor rev when the car down shifts under braking? Meaning, If you are coming up to a red light do things seem a bit out of sync, causing the motor to rev when it down shifts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC9_Z...er_profilepage
How are your down shifts with the blue tops? Does your motor rev when the car down shifts under braking? Meaning, If you are coming up to a red light do things seem a bit out of sync, causing the motor to rev when it down shifts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC9_Z...er_profilepage
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 19
From: Kuwait
CLS55 2006, CLS 63S 2015
I have similar issue but I don't know if it is torque management or not, this is after first tune done for the car and it become clear when I installed the TB 82 .
Someone suggested me to chage the solenoids, but I don't know if the one that is on the E55 is blue one or something else, he said get the Maybach ones (i think they are the blue ones according to one of the threads here in this forum)
I have worst delay in shifting and drop in power just after the shift by time, it means , i am at losing 1 second (at least) in shifting,
When i use M Mode the shift is hard and if there is friction between gearing parts.
.Someone suggested me to chage the solenoids, but I don't know if the one that is on the E55 is blue one or something else, he said get the Maybach ones (i think they are the blue ones according to one of the threads here in this forum)
I have worst delay in shifting and drop in power just after the shift by time, it means , i am at losing 1 second (at least) in shifting,
When i use M Mode the shift is hard and if there is friction between gearing parts.
What are you noticing with he 82? is it a vibration on idle?
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 661
Likes: 3
From: Saudi Arabia - Qatif
Brabus K8 E55 05
Jeremy suggested me first to check the solenoids and check again and from there we can trouble shoot regarding the shifting problem. As for the wired problem, I took it to my mechanic and inspected it using STAR, found out something wrong related to the actuator and TB. So, he re calibrated the the TB response by STAR as per instruction on STAR program screen. The wired problem gone but I was using the tune with the problem in shifting and i am afraid if i used the second tune that i have when Jeremy fixed the shifting problem, i may get the wired problem in the car where it drives like 100 hp car. The only thing that i would like to do now, is to inspect and change the solenoids with good ones, maybach ones maybe (the blue top i guess)
As for vibration problems, I don't have, i used to have some before TB re calibration, but then went away after the calibration, sometimes it comes so weak and almost un noticeable.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 19
From: Kuwait
CLS55 2006, CLS 63S 2015
well, solved but not compeletly.The shifting problem was there from 3rd to 4th and the from 1st to 2nd it shifts earlier sometimes (around 5500 rpm or so), Another wired problem showed up, after 1 full day driving, the car suddenly started to drive like 100 hp car like no fuel or air is coming !!!!
Jeremy suggested me first to check the solenoids and check again and from there we can trouble shoot regarding the shifting problem. As for the wired problem, I took it to my mechanic and inspected it using STAR, found out something wrong related to the actuator and TB. So, he re calibrated the the TB response by STAR as per instruction on STAR program screen. The wired problem gone but I was using the tune with the problem in shifting and i am afraid if i used the second tune that i have when Jeremy fixed the shifting problem, i may get the wired problem in the car where it drives like 100 hp car. The only thing that i would like to do now, is to inspect and change the solenoids with good ones, maybach ones maybe (the blue top i guess)
As for vibration problems, I don't have, i used to have some before TB re calibration, but then went away after the calibration, sometimes it comes so weak and almost un noticeable.
Jeremy suggested me first to check the solenoids and check again and from there we can trouble shoot regarding the shifting problem. As for the wired problem, I took it to my mechanic and inspected it using STAR, found out something wrong related to the actuator and TB. So, he re calibrated the the TB response by STAR as per instruction on STAR program screen. The wired problem gone but I was using the tune with the problem in shifting and i am afraid if i used the second tune that i have when Jeremy fixed the shifting problem, i may get the wired problem in the car where it drives like 100 hp car. The only thing that i would like to do now, is to inspect and change the solenoids with good ones, maybach ones maybe (the blue top i guess)
As for vibration problems, I don't have, i used to have some before TB re calibration, but then went away after the calibration, sometimes it comes so weak and almost un noticeable.
what did he say about this?
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 661
Likes: 3
From: Saudi Arabia - Qatif
Brabus K8 E55 05
Yeah from TTM, it was working fine from the beginning with TTM TB, it is very good one. The thing is, i had this shifting delay even before the TB but that was from 3rd to 4th but was not as hard as after installing the 82 TB.
Later, after 82 TB the hard and delay in shifting is clear and strong. Even after the tune from Jeremy.
When I check these solenoids, maybe i will then have some idea ...
TTM TB is one of the best if not the best in the market as plug and play and you never get CEL for TB !!!!!
Later, after 82 TB the hard and delay in shifting is clear and strong. Even after the tune from Jeremy.
When I check these solenoids, maybe i will then have some idea ...
TTM TB is one of the best if not the best in the market as plug and play and you never get CEL for TB !!!!!
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 4
From: Long Island, NY
Whatever we're tuning!
Yeah from TTM, it was working fine from the beginning with TTM TB, it is very good one. The thing is, i had this shifting delay even before the TB but that was from 3rd to 4th but was not as hard as after installing the 82 TB.
Later, after 82 TB the hard and delay in shifting is clear and strong. Even after the tune from Jeremy.
When I check these solenoids, maybe i will then have some idea ...
TTM TB is one of the best if not the best in the market as plug and play and you never get CEL for TB !!!!!
Later, after 82 TB the hard and delay in shifting is clear and strong. Even after the tune from Jeremy.
When I check these solenoids, maybe i will then have some idea ...
TTM TB is one of the best if not the best in the market as plug and play and you never get CEL for TB !!!!!
You should see the latest version and how we are now using 100% OEM MB parts. In house custom fabricated and ported 80MM housings and porting the TB's up to ~85MM!
There are a few of our newest kits out there already!
Also if anybody buys the parts for the 82mm conversion(80mm housing and 82mm throttle body and gasket), I will do the fabricating and port matching for $400. What a deal!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,909
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From: San Diego
F-250
Port matching for the DIYer.. AWESOME!!!
(PS- Bruce did my parts: No CEL, No drivability issues, no idle issues)
Honestly, if I didn't know I put the TB on myself, I really would not know it was not stock. The only difference is increased power, and lower ET's at the track.
I am working on TB modification number 2 (DIY), and when the time comes, Bruce will be my man. Didn't mean to turn this into a comercial for TTM, however I am a happy customer, and I wanted to share that.
(PS#2- If you let Bruce drive your car, have some extra money for rear tires.. he has this affliction called burnthefkouttathetiresitiis)
(PS- Bruce did my parts: No CEL, No drivability issues, no idle issues)
Honestly, if I didn't know I put the TB on myself, I really would not know it was not stock. The only difference is increased power, and lower ET's at the track.
I am working on TB modification number 2 (DIY), and when the time comes, Bruce will be my man. Didn't mean to turn this into a comercial for TTM, however I am a happy customer, and I wanted to share that.
(PS#2- If you let Bruce drive your car, have some extra money for rear tires.. he has this affliction called burnthefkouttathetiresitiis)
