W211 AMG Discuss the W211 AMG's such as the E55 and the E63

Am I running rich from my tune?

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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 12:28 AM
  #1  
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Am I running rich from my tune?

Here's the dyno graph. There are two AF ratio lines. Jeremy tuned my car according to the bottom AF line. Could it possibly be that the first line is the true AF ratio. If so, then I would be running rich. I put down 467whp and 506ft-lbs of tq to the wheels but I thought it would be higher. Do you guys think I'm running rich still?

http://img195.imageshack.us/i/img0156ru.jpg/
http://img141.imageshack.us/i/img0157ku.jpg/
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 01:17 AM
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Those are fine.I think you got it mixed up higher numbers mean leaner and lower numbers are richer.it looks like you got 11s up top and is exactly what you want.
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by skratch77
Those are fine.I think you got it mixed up higher numbers mean leaner and lower numbers are richer.it looks like you got 11s up top and is exactly what you want.
What if it was tuned with the other line? The higher one.
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 07:48 AM
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the only true way to know what afr you are running in real world conditions is to datalogg. very expensive engines! if your gonna play and mod a mercedes engine you need to datalogg the wideband afr . only way to do that is to install a 02 sensor before the primary cat and use a zeitronix zt-2 or somilar setup and logg. to lean and you will have a huge paperweight!
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 08:05 AM
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I've always tuned engines to high 11's/low 12's A/F ratios...but those engines have always been cheap engines and I was willing to risk them ( I've only had one failure in dozens of engines tuned...and the failure seemed like it was because the engine couldn't handle the power, not the tune ). On an engine like ours however I'd honestly stick to low 11's.

IMO, rich you are not.

Last edited by GT-ER; Jan 15, 2011 at 09:26 AM.
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 09:03 AM
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I would target 11.8 on our cars but low 11's is safer. Low 12's afr is definitely not rich at WOT
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 10:16 AM
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That bottom line looks to be just fine. Get your new pulley installed, stop stressing dyno #s, and get out there and enjoy your car!
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 10:23 AM
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A/f seems fine now. We are learning more about ole #8 as the years go buy. Piston 8 runs leaner than the others and seems to almost always pop first. Better rich than lean for sure!!

What dyno did you use? Numbers do seem a touch low for your mods.

Gotta get her to the track. I am learning that is the real dyno.
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 320 dreamer
the only true way to know what afr you are running in real world conditions is to datalogg. very expensive engines! if your gonna play and mod a mercedes engine you need to datalogg the wideband afr . only way to do that is to install a 02 sensor before the primary cat and use a zeitronix zt-2 or somilar setup and logg. to lean and you will have a huge paperweight!
How much does a datalogger go for?
Originally Posted by 930chas
That bottom line looks to be just fine. Get your new pulley installed, stop stressing dyno #s, and get out there and enjoy your car!
I know I just can't wait till Tuesday for the new pulley to be installed.My mind is going crazy. lol
Originally Posted by Jakpro1
A/f seems fine now. We are learning more about ole #8 as the years go buy. Piston 8 runs leaner than the others and seems to almost always pop first. Better rich than lean for sure!!

What dyno did you use? Numbers do seem a touch low for your mods.

Gotta get her to the track. I am learning that is the real dyno.
I used a dynamite dyno which happens to read even lower than Mustang dynos so maybe I'm good. I did tell jeremy to leave 5% fuel because I told him I was gonna install high flow cats so maybe that could be factor of my numbers.
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 01:12 PM
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are you tuning at wot with a wobbley pulley? not smart if you are.

dataloggers run 250 or so for a zt-2 or 800 for a full dashdaq setup
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 02:17 PM
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Don't forget that with your full headers to muflers open exh is losing about 2psi boost so your 180 is really like a 172mm
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 03:48 PM
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It is really interesting to see how different tuners tune in relation to a/f curve. What I am used to seeing is an initial drop from say 14:1 where the pull starts to below 12 on blown motors and the a/f as straight as a ruler to where the pull ends. I will insert a graph when I get home to show you guys what I mean.
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by skratch77
Don't forget that with your full headers to muflers open exh is losing about 2psi boost so your 180 is really like a 172mm
You think I should switch to a 190mm? That sounds awesome.
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 05:44 PM
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Here is a pic of a graph that is perfect in my opinion. There is no squiggly lines representing smooth power and see how flat the A/F is at the bottom tuned to 11:1

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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 05:51 PM
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 08:50 PM
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What would be the upper & lower ranges for 'safe' AFR on 63s at WOT? what would be a serious lean AFR?
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 09:19 PM
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maybe a 185 would make more sense since I am losing boost with my open exhaust system.
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Old Jan 16, 2011 | 07:25 PM
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Just remember that gas is way cheaper than pistons and valves . . . oh, and I really did like the paper weight analogy a few posts back.
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