ptirado961

PM me if you have a set for sale (used or new). Other shorties considered... (make your case)

Not looking to do LT's... Too much of a headache, and looking for best HP/TQ gains on a budget without ruining the mild exhaust sound or freak out the dealer when I bring it in for warranty work.

Q's: Will these bolt right up to primary cats? Should I eliminate the primaries (maybe replace with high flow cats)? Does anyone offer bolt up higher than OEM flow primary cat replacements?

Thanks all!!!

novae500

eurocharged has a sale for kleemann headers.

Worth the wait

Probably aren't going to get a better product at a better price than Kleemnann, even if you buy new.
Imho you should replace/remove the cats at the same, as it is a major restriction. To my knowledge no one makes a bolt up header that removes one/both cats, so welding is required if you want to remove their restriction.

Good luck!

PS-don't forget about Evosport, PLM and Heyvon - they all make shorty headers that bolt right uo to the factory cat.

ptirado961

From pictures, it looks like the Kleeman setup eliminates the primary cats. I am OK with that if I have to, but would prefer to have bolt up high flow cats so I don't have to deal with the CEL. Can't seem to find anyone that sells those...

Won't be eliminating the secondary cats.

Considering putting x-pipe where resonator is though, but don't want it loud or the dreaded drone (any thoughts?)

blair_mbz

You don't want Kleemann headers. So many issues, plus there's cutting, welding. It can get pretty messy and you WILL get a check engine light. And depending where you live not smog legal.

Go with shorty bolt-on header that doesn't touch cats. IMO, best one on market hands down is the Evosport ceramic shorty header. I've had them on 2 of my cars- they are best of breed!

If you want to remove cats, delete your secondary cats, but keep your primaries and you won't get a check engine light and can pass smog even in Cali! Also, remove the resonator (Evosport makes a res delete kit for your car).

viper04

It the sale for the 63 only?

skratch77

Everything this guy said is 100% false.Kleemann headers have zero issues and make proven power.

its a simple install and they give you the down pipes to put in place of your primary cats.Kleemann also shuts off cats in the eprom as not present,this is not the same as some tuners do with messing with the 02 voltages,its in a whole different part of the ecu and has nothing to do with the tune.

Kleemann will fix your ecu for free if you buy a set from them.

My car has zero codes and the 02 voltages are working like a stock car and passes obd2 with no issues at all.The only issues I have with them is I get no traction in first and second gear.

Here is my setup from under the car.

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7288424_n.jpg

blair_mbz

You know, if you're going to make a comment, at least take out your obvious emotions. We all have our own opinions, and I clearly stated mine as such. But saying "everything this guy said is 100% false" really makes you look like an ****. Everything I said is NOT false and you clearly know that. I have owned a set of Kleemann headers and I know several others who have as well. They ALL had cracks in the welding after a short amount of time and they ALL leaked where the downpipe was. So what I am saying is NOT FALSE. It is fact and it is my experience. Your experience may be different (duh! you have them on your car so you are biased), but it is YOUR experience and you should state is as such. These boards are meant to share information not making ignorant posts out of emotion.

More so, Kleemann headers WILL THROW CEL. This is 100% true. Ok, so they can turn it off with software. So can 100 other tuners. Point is the OP should be aware of this! Most of the bolt-on headers on the market do not. So Kleemann headers are NOT simple bolt-on.

Kleemann headers require cutting/welding. This is 100% true. Again, you see the pattern here my friend? My suggestion again is a bolt-on header that makes just as much, if not more power than Kleemann headers for far less installation and from my experience, future problems.

Lol. Maybe in your world. So now who is the one making blatant false claims? Have a great day!

skratch77

You put it as if kleemanns have major issues,people were craking headers because they were running lean as hell with there tunes.

and no every tuner does not know how to shut off the codes,eurocharge sends the ecu to kleemann to get it done and every other tuner tries to manipulate the 02 reading to not trigger a code(probably why they cracked there headers).

Leakes? thats kleemanns fault that you cant weld?

No other tuners other than renntech have access to the erg imissions eprom.

Ask those people who tuned there cars with the kleemanns and see how many actual kleemann tuned cars have any issues.

Kleemann headers are by far the best bang for the buck headers out there,they are half the price of evo sports and make more power.If done right and tuned by kleemann there is zero issues,now if you have a company like pes tuning tune your car then yeah you will have problems with your headers.

Worth the wait

Kleeman sells hi flo cats that bolt right up to their manifold for $300.
Call Cory at Kleemann USA. Great guy, he will be a big help.

tgoss

I own a fully Kleemann tuned/parts car that has been touched by Cory only and it's flawless.

Pretty hard for me to agree that Kleemann headers are junk... especially considering the price they can be had.

ptirado961

Any of you guys that just bought LTs want to sell me your used shorties? Should I be worried about engine heat from headers? Do people usually wrap these headers to keep the engine bay heat down?

novae500

if kleemann could do a firesale like they are w/the e63s/c63s, i would be on it. $995 is a bargain.

Turbo 6

Kleemann headers are top quality for the money.

C32madness

Good choice on the Kleeman's. Proven power gains. Like others have pointed out there is minor cutting/welding involved. I order to get a good header in there that is what must be done. Quite happy with mine.

Recoding the ECU to not check for pre cats can also be done by kleeman.

Lopes80

nothing wrong with the Kleemans, not as pretty as others but they do make power, I have been running them for over a year, no problems to date.

ptirado961

The more I think about it, I don't like the idea of chopping into my AMG exhaust, or eliminating any cats. PLM and EVOSport make decent headers (from the threads I've read) that bolt right up to the stock cats. I like that idea best (no cutting or welding).

Of the "bolt on" headers, which one has the strongest following?

Do I NEED to eliminate a set of cats to get REAL (worth the $$$$) hp/tq gains?

ptirado961

Any thoughts on these? On EBAY for $1900
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Merce...Q5fAccessories

GT-ER

Way to expensive for a design that I can see huge flaws in.

ptirado961

Can you elaborate on the flaws? These look a lot like the Renntech header design if I'm not mistaken...

GT-ER

1) Runner #1 going into runner #2, not ideal for flow.

2) The use of the oem collector which is TINY! I couldn't believe how tiny it was until I saw it in person. My Kleemans are HUGE in comparison.

3) The price...why pay $1900 when you can pay $1500 or less on superior flowing headers?

Considering that ANYTHING is better than stock, you may as well get good value while you're at it. Longtbes or Kleemans for me.

novae500

for that price, you might as well get EVO headers!!

ptirado961

Decided to go with these. Going to do a dyno baseline with AFR logs before and after install. Pricier than others, but after research and weighing the pros & cons, the EVOSport shorties were my choice. Have a 3" x-pipe and tubing to replace the secondary cats and (possibly) the resonator (not sure I want to do this). Only looking for faster 1/4 mile and trap speed = more HP/TQ (NOT sound).

renntech55

Pmed

komp55

Good choice on the Evosports. I've had mine on now for over three years without a single issue (e.g., cracks, fitment, etc.). Here's a DIY post for when you're ready to install them:

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...r-install.html