Now I'm officially depressed...
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
From: Minnesota
2005 S55 1982 300dt
and torqued it with my BRAND NEW torque wrench.
what I don't get is, you say you torqued it with your new torque wrench. After that you did go the additional 90 degrees with a breaker bar, right? You didn't use your torque wrench to apply the 90 degrees, did you?
what I don't get is, you say you torqued it with your new torque wrench. After that you did go the additional 90 degrees with a breaker bar, right? You didn't use your torque wrench to apply the 90 degrees, did you?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,182
Likes: 15
From: Northern VA
W211
Good luck and hopefully the damage isnt catastrophic
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Germany
c200k
Must work towards reducing cognitive dissonance any way possible. However, there is much in Schulz nach Thun communication aspect here. Appell and Selbstoffenbare Aspekte. Somewhere buried in there.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
Don't know of many shops that would offer warranty on an aftermarket part. Regardless, even if it means having to do it 23 times...I'll do it myself. It's how I've learned to rebuild engines, manual and auto trannies and turbochargers. I've replaced dampers before and have never had an issue like this one. I'm guessing the first time was simply due to my faulty torque wrench and after that the damage caused to the surface of the crank was enough to cause the pulley to not clamp on hard enough. Considering my options now seems to be between a new engine or new crank...I'm thinking I may have nothing to lose with machining a long keyway on the crank and using a regular rectangular key instead of the woodruff key...they are FAR stronger than woodruff keys anyways and I already read of someone doing this to their srt6 and it seems to have worked perfectly. I have take the timing cover off again though before anything.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,771
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, CA
'13 GT-R AMS Alpha 9+, CLA45, E55
And the award for Hater Of The Year goes to none other than:
"hate", "hate", "hate", "hate", "hate"
On a serious note... OP - good luck with this project man. Long road ahead but I know you are the kind to learn some valuable info even if by means of the hard way. Keep us posted.
"hate", "hate", "hate", "hate", "hate"
On a serious note... OP - good luck with this project man. Long road ahead but I know you are the kind to learn some valuable info even if by means of the hard way. Keep us posted.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
Thanks for feeling my pain guys...lol. I'm even thinking of putting a spot weld between the bolt and the pulley after doing the rectangular key mod. It should never budge after that..lol
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Germany
c200k
Second, a spot weld between the bolt and the pulley will have the same problem if the keyway fails, only now when the pulley spins, it will be more likely to spin right off because it's attached to the bolt securely, so there's no slip there, just spin right off and likely destroy the inside of the crank.
Tip1:
1. First assess what went wrong for your own information.
2. Take the car to a shop. Let them do it.
3. If you continue, at least document it for our entertainment. Others might flame me, or be too nice to say it to you, but it's telling. The internet is entertainment, including fail, and that's what they want here.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 626
Likes: 8
From: UK
E55K AMG
Don't know of many shops that would offer warranty on an aftermarket part. Regardless, even if it means having to do it 23 times...I'll do it myself. It's how I've learned to rebuild engines, manual and auto trannies and turbochargers. I've replaced dampers before and have never had an issue like this one. I'm guessing the first time was simply due to my faulty torque wrench and after that the damage caused to the surface of the crank was enough to cause the pulley to not clamp on hard enough. Considering my options now seems to be between a new engine or new crank...I'm thinking I may have nothing to lose with machining a long keyway on the crank and using a regular rectangular key instead of the woodruff key...they are FAR stronger than woodruff keys anyways and I already read of someone doing this to their srt6 and it seems to have worked perfectly. I have take the timing cover off again though before anything.
Sorry man, I feel this aint going to plan and puts me off changing the pulley on the 55.
If its not too late and you decide to go the route of a worshop install, just make sure they have done them before.
when I got my AMS crank pulley installed on my 43, the first independent workshop just damaged my standard original pulley, the second Mercedes approved workshop just struggled for a few hours and I ended up going to the main dealer.
good luck
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
Ok, first, did you even assess why the second install failed too? Maybe you need to do that before going ten steps ahead, like the last time.
Second, a spot weld between the bolt and the pulley will have the same problem if the keyway fails, only now when the pulley spins, it will be more likely to spin right off because it's attached to the bolt securely, so there's no slip there, just spin right off and likely destroy the inside of the crank.
Tip1:
1. First assess what went wrong for your own information.
2. Take the car to a shop. Let them do it.
3. If you continue, at least document it for our entertainment. Others might flame me, or be too nice to say it to you, but it's telling. The internet is entertainment, including fail, and that's what they want here.
Second, a spot weld between the bolt and the pulley will have the same problem if the keyway fails, only now when the pulley spins, it will be more likely to spin right off because it's attached to the bolt securely, so there's no slip there, just spin right off and likely destroy the inside of the crank.
Tip1:
1. First assess what went wrong for your own information.
2. Take the car to a shop. Let them do it.
3. If you continue, at least document it for our entertainment. Others might flame me, or be too nice to say it to you, but it's telling. The internet is entertainment, including fail, and that's what they want here.
Woodruff keys are ULTRA weak in comparison to parallel keys. I already read of someone using a parallel key on their SRT6 with zero issues and quite frankly I can't think of any other way to go. I highly doubt a 1" or longer parallel key will fail.
Again, there is no point in me taking to a shop so that they install everything the same way I did and have it come off again and then tell me it's not covered under warranty because it's an aftermarket part or tell me that I need a new engine and what not....I rather do this myself. Please, do not keep suggesting what I've already said no to on various occasions.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 469
Likes: 2
One idea you can look into is pin the harmonic balancer hub. I know on the Viper when installing a supercharger guys pin the key way. The viper as no key way on the harmonic balancer. It works I know. Here is a link to what I'm talking about.
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart...idcategory=228
This one is for a Viper but it works, and can be apply for what you are trying to do. Good luck
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart...idcategory=228
This one is for a Viper but it works, and can be apply for what you are trying to do. Good luck
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
One idea you can look into is pin the harmonic balancer hub. I know on the Viper when installing a supercharger guys pin the key way. The viper as no key way on the harmonic balancer. It works I know. Here is a link to what I'm talking about.
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart...idcategory=228
This one is for a Viper but it works, and can be apply for what you are trying to do. Good luck
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart...idcategory=228
This one is for a Viper but it works, and can be apply for what you are trying to do. Good luck
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 626
Likes: 8
From: UK
E55K AMG
This reminds me of so many examples were I learnt from experience myself and some ended up costing me more time and money than if I went to specialists in the first place........... but the experience provides the satisfaction of achievement.
The current keyway/woodruff key design works and is proven to work with all the aftermarket pulleys, so trying to mod the crank design may cause further issues, (don't shot me down, it’s just a thought)
Ok I genuinely feel for you and you seem very adamant that nobody else is going to do this install on your car...... apart from you.
Have you managed to get off the pulley? If any crank is damged it should be obvious especially whilst focusing on the Keyway in this case like you did before/ Do you have a puller? It may need a bit of heat.
I think the crank will still be fine and it’s the key that broken, this has dislodged the pulley making it wobble. The pulley is made of a softer material so it’s highly unlikely to damage the crank and it’s still stuck on because of the heat friction when it spun freely.
Did you think about getting your torque wrench tested like you did with your last one that let go on you?
I am sorry but I honestly feel that if the aftermarket pulleys were 100% true?........... then your problems have been contributed to the torque process and I am not saying you did not follow it by the book, as you have clearly stated you have. The two pulleys you installed do not want to stay on your crank, but your original pulley was fine prior.
If option is possible
1. Clean it all up and redo.
2. Double check that bloody torque wrench (borrow someone elses also to triple check). I watched two people at the workshop hang off my crankbolt when they did it up. Its not something I felt comfortable seeing.
3. Replace everything needed key, crank bolt etc. But leave off supercharger belt or disconnect electronic clutch plug.
4. Drive around for a while until satisfied that no issues are apparent, without supercharger running.
5. Remove crank bolt checking and confirming the opposite torque required to remove.
6. If satisfied then replace with a new bolt, If you like try it more than once.
Sincerely best of luck
Super Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Likes: 2
From: Orlando, FL
04 E55 AMG, 03 350z Track Built/Single Turbo
Sucks to hear.
I did vote to try the 180mm pulley again, but I also chimed in that I think you should take it to a shop. I think I gathered you are in PR, so I'm not sure what kind of shops you have access to, but there comes a time when you should cut your losses and pay for a 2nd set of eyes on the situation to make sure nothing is overlooked. The more failures on the install you have the greater the likelihood of some sort of catastrophic failure.
Good luck.
I did vote to try the 180mm pulley again, but I also chimed in that I think you should take it to a shop. I think I gathered you are in PR, so I'm not sure what kind of shops you have access to, but there comes a time when you should cut your losses and pay for a 2nd set of eyes on the situation to make sure nothing is overlooked. The more failures on the install you have the greater the likelihood of some sort of catastrophic failure.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
This reminds me of so many examples were I learnt from experience myself and some ended up costing me more time and money than if I went to specialists in the first place........... but the experience provides the satisfaction of achievement.
The current keyway/woodruff key design works and is proven to work with all the aftermarket pulleys, so trying to mod the crank design may cause further issues, (don't shot me down, it’s just a thought)
Ok I genuinely feel for you and you seem very adamant that nobody else is going to do this install on your car...... apart from you.
Have you managed to get off the pulley? If any crank is damged it should be obvious especially whilst focusing on the Keyway in this case like you did before/ Do you have a puller? It may need a bit of heat.
I think the crank will still be fine and it’s the key that broken, this has dislodged the pulley making it wobble. The pulley is made of a softer material so it’s highly unlikely to damage the crank and it’s still stuck on because of the heat friction when it spun freely.
Did you think about getting your torque wrench tested like you did with your last one that let go on you?
I am sorry but I honestly feel that if the aftermarket pulleys were 100% true?........... then your problems have been contributed to the torque process and I am not saying you did not follow it by the book, as you have clearly stated you have. The two pulleys you installed do not want to stay on your crank, but your original pulley was fine prior.
If option is possible
1. Clean it all up and redo.
2. Double check that bloody torque wrench (borrow someone elses also to triple check). I watched two people at the workshop hang off my crankbolt when they did it up. Its not something I felt comfortable seeing.
3. Replace everything needed key, crank bolt etc. But leave off supercharger belt or disconnect electronic clutch plug.
4. Drive around for a while until satisfied that no issues are apparent, without supercharger running.
5. Remove crank bolt checking and confirming the opposite torque required to remove.
6. If satisfied then replace with a new bolt, If you like try it more than once.
Sincerely best of luck
The current keyway/woodruff key design works and is proven to work with all the aftermarket pulleys, so trying to mod the crank design may cause further issues, (don't shot me down, it’s just a thought)
Ok I genuinely feel for you and you seem very adamant that nobody else is going to do this install on your car...... apart from you.
Have you managed to get off the pulley? If any crank is damged it should be obvious especially whilst focusing on the Keyway in this case like you did before/ Do you have a puller? It may need a bit of heat.
I think the crank will still be fine and it’s the key that broken, this has dislodged the pulley making it wobble. The pulley is made of a softer material so it’s highly unlikely to damage the crank and it’s still stuck on because of the heat friction when it spun freely.
Did you think about getting your torque wrench tested like you did with your last one that let go on you?
I am sorry but I honestly feel that if the aftermarket pulleys were 100% true?........... then your problems have been contributed to the torque process and I am not saying you did not follow it by the book, as you have clearly stated you have. The two pulleys you installed do not want to stay on your crank, but your original pulley was fine prior.
If option is possible
1. Clean it all up and redo.
2. Double check that bloody torque wrench (borrow someone elses also to triple check). I watched two people at the workshop hang off my crankbolt when they did it up. Its not something I felt comfortable seeing.
3. Replace everything needed key, crank bolt etc. But leave off supercharger belt or disconnect electronic clutch plug.
4. Drive around for a while until satisfied that no issues are apparent, without supercharger running.
5. Remove crank bolt checking and confirming the opposite torque required to remove.
6. If satisfied then replace with a new bolt, If you like try it more than once.
Sincerely best of luck
I was able to get the pulley off, the damage looks identical to the last time. It just sheered the key right off.
The only thing I can think of is that the crank is worn down enough that the pulley doesn't have the clamping force it would with a good install. If that is the case then there is nothing I can do short of installing a new crank...OR...installing a better, stronger key. I'm choosing the latter. I may just pin the damper like the Viper guys are doing. I've read into it and the oem Viper damper doesn't use a key at all....when they supercharge it the damper spins on the crank and falls off so they pin the damper to the crank. VW guys also have this issue. The oem key is super weak and fails with time...so they drill a hole in the crank and pin it. We'll see how it goes.
Sucks to hear.
I did vote to try the 180mm pulley again, but I also chimed in that I think you should take it to a shop. I think I gathered you are in PR, so I'm not sure what kind of shops you have access to, but there comes a time when you should cut your losses and pay for a 2nd set of eyes on the situation to make sure nothing is overlooked. The more failures on the install you have the greater the likelihood of some sort of catastrophic failure.
Good luck.
I did vote to try the 180mm pulley again, but I also chimed in that I think you should take it to a shop. I think I gathered you are in PR, so I'm not sure what kind of shops you have access to, but there comes a time when you should cut your losses and pay for a 2nd set of eyes on the situation to make sure nothing is overlooked. The more failures on the install you have the greater the likelihood of some sort of catastrophic failure.
Good luck.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,477
Likes: 5
From: Los Angeles
04 CL55 (sold), 2012 CLS550 (sold), 2014 S550 (sold), 2015 ES300H (DAILY)
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 626
Likes: 8
From: UK
E55K AMG
Just to let you know I was not trying to be funny about double checking the second torque wrench. Hope you did not think me rude,,,,,,,,, just covering all possibilities as I would not want anyone to go through more pain, especially replacing major engine conponents, just for a pulley.
I cant quote for a fact but someone must be able to confirm the issue, is it really possible for the soft alluminium material pulley to spin for a short enough amount of time which wears down the hard steel crankshaft that much?
I cant quote for a fact but someone must be able to confirm the issue, is it really possible for the soft alluminium material pulley to spin for a short enough amount of time which wears down the hard steel crankshaft that much?
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Collierville, TN
E55
Just to let you know I was not trying to be funny about double checking the second torque wrench. Hope you did not think me rude,,,,,,,,, just covering all possibilities as I would not want anyone to go through more pain, especially replacing major engine conponents, just for a pulley.
I cant quote for a fact but someone must be able to confirm the issue, is it really possible for the soft alluminium material pulley to spin for a short enough amount of time which wears down the hard steel crankshaft that much?
I cant quote for a fact but someone must be able to confirm the issue, is it really possible for the soft alluminium material pulley to spin for a short enough amount of time which wears down the hard steel crankshaft that much?
I'd measure the crank snout to check for wear.
Regards,
Todd
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Germany
c200k
And perhaps you, and others posting in the same vein, are not offering the OP anything but enablement, as I've mentioned further in the threads, which you likely didn't read. This behavior is quite telling that the only thing persons like you are doing is not helping the OP, but striving for a world that's more sensitive.
To that, I can also counter what you're giving a "+1" to by saying you and him are perhaps part of the generation where children, even when losing, were always winners. This behavior has done nothing but create a world of whiners and people who wish the world to be a more sensitive place, centered around their individual tastes for sensitivity. They've learned incorrectly that the world is a nice place, custom tailored to them, and try to bring the world down to their level of delusion, rather than coming up to everyone else's level of accepting reality. So, in that sense, being direct and simply telling the truth is actually disregarded and seen less important than being sensitive. I'm sure some of you guys are busy calling the FCC when you see something on TV you don't like. Now calling for more censorship on the internet, not based around the rules of this forum, for instance, but based on your tastes and sensitivities. In short, complaining about things you don't like and hoping to get management intervention.
To that, I can also counter what you're giving a "+1" to by saying you and him are perhaps part of the generation where children, even when losing, were always winners. This behavior has done nothing but create a world of whiners and people who wish the world to be a more sensitive place, centered around their individual tastes for sensitivity. They've learned incorrectly that the world is a nice place, custom tailored to them, and try to bring the world down to their level of delusion, rather than coming up to everyone else's level of accepting reality. So, in that sense, being direct and simply telling the truth is actually disregarded and seen less important than being sensitive. I'm sure some of you guys are busy calling the FCC when you see something on TV you don't like. Now calling for more censorship on the internet, not based around the rules of this forum, for instance, but based on your tastes and sensitivities. In short, complaining about things you don't like and hoping to get management intervention.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 3
From: Frederick, MD
'72 Suburban
One idea you can look into is pin the harmonic balancer hub. I know on the Viper when installing a supercharger guys pin the key way. The viper as no key way on the harmonic balancer. It works I know. Here is a link to what I'm talking about.
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart...idcategory=228
This one is for a Viper but it works, and can be apply for what you are trying to do. Good luck
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart...idcategory=228
This one is for a Viper but it works, and can be apply for what you are trying to do. Good luck
When I installed a supercharger on my C5, I pinned the crank using the Vortech supplied kit.
Not sure if it's an option at this point. Can you remove the pulley and post up pics of the bolt, snout, keyway and inside of the pulley?
And I think sknight was just throwing down some tough love. You guys ragging on him need thicker skin. He's not kicking the guy, he's telling him what he believes to be the correct way to fix this problem. He's throwing out his opinion. The OP doesn't have to follow any of the advice given.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
