Vancouver Dyno Day Results. (Eurocharged tuning/OE tuning)
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 798
Likes: 4
From: HTX-->ATL -->CHI
2015 E63S 4Matic
FYI: The S55 had a boost leak (seen in logs). The leak was going to be fixed before any dyno takes place.
I did not want to go here as I know this will cause a flamewar..... But, I feel there is some information that the vehicle owner's do not know. After reading the EC file from the E55, it was seen to be a copy of a POWERCHIP file made as a custom dyno tune for a highly modified E55 (owner is an mbworld member). I have read other copied Powerchip files from Eurocharged/LET tuned vehicles. 2 of these files were read from E55K's after EC/LET tuning cause engine failure (owners are mbworld members too). There are others too (PM me for details).
From the ecu read on Saturday, a total of 59 maps were found to be identical to a Powerchip file's changes. The speedlimiter is even identical. These are changes unlike any other tuner, and some of these maps are not changed by other tuners. What are the maps you coppied, and what do they do? I know, because I made the file for Powerchip. Proof can be provided to those who ask via PM.
Why buy a Powerchip file, when you can get a coppied one from a highly modded car for $400? BTW, this file is a custom tune for a highly modded car. Changes to the back pressure maps can be dangerous in the wrong vehicle. Others too..... Copy tuners kill cars and the industry.
How tuning works: Each byte 0h (address) can have a value 0-255 (256 8bit), address range of 0-7FFF (0-32767 addresses). To change hundreds/thousands of these bytes identically the same as another tuner is impossible. Byte sequences are porposly placed by tuners for this indentification purpose. PC id bytes were present in read file.
Anyone wanting verification of the origin of their tune, I will offer my services for free (no free tunes included).
I did not want to go here as I know this will cause a flamewar..... But, I feel there is some information that the vehicle owner's do not know. After reading the EC file from the E55, it was seen to be a copy of a POWERCHIP file made as a custom dyno tune for a highly modified E55 (owner is an mbworld member). I have read other copied Powerchip files from Eurocharged/LET tuned vehicles. 2 of these files were read from E55K's after EC/LET tuning cause engine failure (owners are mbworld members too). There are others too (PM me for details).
From the ecu read on Saturday, a total of 59 maps were found to be identical to a Powerchip file's changes. The speedlimiter is even identical. These are changes unlike any other tuner, and some of these maps are not changed by other tuners. What are the maps you coppied, and what do they do? I know, because I made the file for Powerchip. Proof can be provided to those who ask via PM.
Why buy a Powerchip file, when you can get a coppied one from a highly modded car for $400? BTW, this file is a custom tune for a highly modded car. Changes to the back pressure maps can be dangerous in the wrong vehicle. Others too..... Copy tuners kill cars and the industry.
How tuning works: Each byte 0h (address) can have a value 0-255 (256 8bit), address range of 0-7FFF (0-32767 addresses). To change hundreds/thousands of these bytes identically the same as another tuner is impossible. Byte sequences are porposly placed by tuners for this indentification purpose. PC id bytes were present in read file.
Anyone wanting verification of the origin of their tune, I will offer my services for free (no free tunes included).
I certainly don't think that any publicity is good publicity, especially given the context of what you're saying.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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Joined: May 2008
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From: Houston
2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
I think every tuner has their share of blow motors. I have heard of motors blowing up on the dynos. A lot of members dont want to talk about it. I also may have a video of a E55 blowing up on the rollers.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Basel, Switzerland
Audi A5 Sportback + Cannondale Prophet
Some pretty serious accusations there. I don't know much about copyright protection in tuning software but a company accusing another company of plagiarism like this is pretty serious.
In any case, and to paraphrase what we said recently during another bout of sponsor mudslinging:
MBWorld Staff encourages sponsors to defend themselves, unless the negative opinions include TOU violations -- insulting language, name calling insults, etc. These can and will be moderated.
Further, members... who make multiple accusations across multiple threads against a sponsor here, may constitute "stalking" for the purpose of "harassment," both of which are prohibited by the TOU, and may be moderated on a case by case basis... this applies regardless of whom is being stalked. In short, civil complaining is fine, but vindictive stalking is not. Fair warning.
Continue to discuss this if you want... But keep it civil. Staff is watching.
and...
Our TOU state that we cannot post "material that could constitute or encourage conduct that would be considered to give rise to civil liability"... so all this "proof" is off limits, by PM or otherwise.
In any case, and to paraphrase what we said recently during another bout of sponsor mudslinging:
MBWorld Staff encourages sponsors to defend themselves, unless the negative opinions include TOU violations -- insulting language, name calling insults, etc. These can and will be moderated.
Further, members... who make multiple accusations across multiple threads against a sponsor here, may constitute "stalking" for the purpose of "harassment," both of which are prohibited by the TOU, and may be moderated on a case by case basis... this applies regardless of whom is being stalked. In short, civil complaining is fine, but vindictive stalking is not. Fair warning.
Continue to discuss this if you want... But keep it civil. Staff is watching.
and...
Our TOU state that we cannot post "material that could constitute or encourage conduct that would be considered to give rise to civil liability"... so all this "proof" is off limits, by PM or otherwise.
SPONSOR
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,909
Likes: 130
From: Houston
C63S
FYI: The S55 had a boost leak (seen in logs). The leak was going to be fixed before any dyno takes place.
I did not want to go here as I know this will cause a flamewar..... But, I feel there is some information that the vehicle owner's do not know. After reading the EC file from the E55, it was seen to be a copy of a POWERCHIP file made as a custom dyno tune for a highly modified E55 (owner is an mbworld member). I have read other copied Powerchip files from Eurocharged/LET tuned vehicles. 2 of these files were read from E55K's after EC/LET tuning cause engine failure (owners are mbworld members too). There are others too (PM me for details).
From the ecu read on Saturday, a total of 59 maps were found to be identical to a Powerchip file's changes. The speedlimiter is even identical. These are changes unlike any other tuner, and some of these maps are not changed by other tuners. What are the maps you coppied, and what do they do? I know, because I made the file for Powerchip. Proof can be provided to those who ask via PM.
Why buy a Powerchip file, when you can get a coppied one from a highly modded car for $400? BTW, this file is a custom tune for a highly modded car. Changes to the back pressure maps can be dangerous in the wrong vehicle. Others too..... Copy tuners kill cars and the industry.
How tuning works: Each byte 0h (address) can have a value 0-255 (256 8bit), address range of 0-7FFF (0-32767 addresses). To change hundreds/thousands of these bytes identically the same as another tuner is impossible. Byte sequences are porposly placed by tuners for this indentification purpose. PC id bytes were present in read file.
Anyone wanting verification of the origin of their tune, I will offer my services for free (no free tunes included).
I did not want to go here as I know this will cause a flamewar..... But, I feel there is some information that the vehicle owner's do not know. After reading the EC file from the E55, it was seen to be a copy of a POWERCHIP file made as a custom dyno tune for a highly modified E55 (owner is an mbworld member). I have read other copied Powerchip files from Eurocharged/LET tuned vehicles. 2 of these files were read from E55K's after EC/LET tuning cause engine failure (owners are mbworld members too). There are others too (PM me for details).
From the ecu read on Saturday, a total of 59 maps were found to be identical to a Powerchip file's changes. The speedlimiter is even identical. These are changes unlike any other tuner, and some of these maps are not changed by other tuners. What are the maps you coppied, and what do they do? I know, because I made the file for Powerchip. Proof can be provided to those who ask via PM.
Why buy a Powerchip file, when you can get a coppied one from a highly modded car for $400? BTW, this file is a custom tune for a highly modded car. Changes to the back pressure maps can be dangerous in the wrong vehicle. Others too..... Copy tuners kill cars and the industry.
How tuning works: Each byte 0h (address) can have a value 0-255 (256 8bit), address range of 0-7FFF (0-32767 addresses). To change hundreds/thousands of these bytes identically the same as another tuner is impossible. Byte sequences are porposly placed by tuners for this indentification purpose. PC id bytes were present in read file.
Anyone wanting verification of the origin of their tune, I will offer my services for free (no free tunes included).
Once again, as you’ve demonstrated in your previous posts, your actions are immature, baseless and unprofessional. You’ve once again leveled false claims in an open forum against my company in a blatant attempt to ruin our reputation/credibility. You will be hearing from our legal team shortly – I suggest you stop while you can.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 798
Likes: 4
From: HTX-->ATL -->CHI
2015 E63S 4Matic
http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=359326
If anyone missed this, seems relevant given the dyno manipulation accusations in this thread...
MODS - couldn't figure out whether we were allowed to link other forums in our posts c/o the TOU - please remove if this is against the rules.
If anyone missed this, seems relevant given the dyno manipulation accusations in this thread...
MODS - couldn't figure out whether we were allowed to link other forums in our posts c/o the TOU - please remove if this is against the rules.
Last edited by BenzoDoc; May 9, 2011 at 12:26 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 487
Likes: 6
From: Houston
CLK-63 BLACK/2014 E63S/2013 ML350
FYI: The S55 had a boost leak (seen in logs). The leak was going to be fixed before any dyno takes place.
I did not want to go here as I know this will cause a flamewar..... But, I feel there is some information that the vehicle owner's do not know. After reading the EC file from the E55, it was seen to be a copy of a POWERCHIP file made as a custom dyno tune for a highly modified E55 (owner is an mbworld member). I have read other copied Powerchip files from Eurocharged/LET tuned vehicles. 2 of these files were read from E55K's after EC/LET tuning cause engine failure (owners are mbworld members too). There are others too (PM me for details).
From the ecu read on Saturday, a total of 59 maps were found to be identical to a Powerchip file's changes. The speedlimiter is even identical. These are changes unlike any other tuner, and some of these maps are not changed by other tuners. What are the maps you coppied, and what do they do? I know, because I made the file for Powerchip. Proof can be provided to those who ask via PM.
Why buy a Powerchip file, when you can get a coppied one from a highly modded car for $400? BTW, this file is a custom tune for a highly modded car. Changes to the back pressure maps can be dangerous in the wrong vehicle. Others too..... Copy tuners kill cars and the industry.
How tuning works: Each byte 0h (address) can have a value 0-255 (256 8bit), address range of 0-7FFF (0-32767 addresses). To change hundreds/thousands of these bytes identically the same as another tuner is impossible. Byte sequences are porposly placed by tuners for this indentification purpose. PC id bytes were present in read file.
Anyone wanting verification of the origin of their tune, I will offer my services for free (no free tunes included).
I did not want to go here as I know this will cause a flamewar..... But, I feel there is some information that the vehicle owner's do not know. After reading the EC file from the E55, it was seen to be a copy of a POWERCHIP file made as a custom dyno tune for a highly modified E55 (owner is an mbworld member). I have read other copied Powerchip files from Eurocharged/LET tuned vehicles. 2 of these files were read from E55K's after EC/LET tuning cause engine failure (owners are mbworld members too). There are others too (PM me for details).
From the ecu read on Saturday, a total of 59 maps were found to be identical to a Powerchip file's changes. The speedlimiter is even identical. These are changes unlike any other tuner, and some of these maps are not changed by other tuners. What are the maps you coppied, and what do they do? I know, because I made the file for Powerchip. Proof can be provided to those who ask via PM.
Why buy a Powerchip file, when you can get a coppied one from a highly modded car for $400? BTW, this file is a custom tune for a highly modded car. Changes to the back pressure maps can be dangerous in the wrong vehicle. Others too..... Copy tuners kill cars and the industry.
How tuning works: Each byte 0h (address) can have a value 0-255 (256 8bit), address range of 0-7FFF (0-32767 addresses). To change hundreds/thousands of these bytes identically the same as another tuner is impossible. Byte sequences are porposly placed by tuners for this indentification purpose. PC id bytes were present in read file.
Anyone wanting verification of the origin of their tune, I will offer my services for free (no free tunes included).
You’re quick to call EC copy tuners, but this is exactly what you have been accused of on the M5board and other BMW forums and by POWERCHIP themselves. Shall we post those links?
I'm pretty sure that you can manipulate the data for your benefit….
First you say you read an EC file off of 2 blown E55’s. Next, you say that the file is yours and you created it….Humm… So was the file yours or EC’s? I’m lost here……
You’re quick to bring up issues you think pertain to Jerry / EC….what about your issues with 55’s? Shall we bring them out here for everyone to read?? You may think people don’t know, but some of us do.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
iTrader: (1)
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 12,139
Likes: 295
From: Houston
2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=359326
If anyone missed this, seems relevant given the dyno manipulation accusations in this thread...
MODS - couldn't figure out whether we were allowed to link other forums in our posts c/o the TOU - please remove if this is against the rules.
If anyone missed this, seems relevant given the dyno manipulation accusations in this thread...
MODS - couldn't figure out whether we were allowed to link other forums in our posts c/o the TOU - please remove if this is against the rules.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 798
Likes: 4
From: HTX-->ATL -->CHI
2015 E63S 4Matic
This coming from a company where EVERY file is a Powerchip file? Classic…..
You’re quick to call EC copy tuners, but this is exactly what you have been accused of on the M5board and other BMW forums and by POWERCHIP themselves. Shall we post those links?
I'm pretty sure that you can manipulate the data for your benefit….
First you say you read an EC file off of 2 blown E55’s. Next, you say that the file is yours and you created it….Humm… So was the file yours or EC’s? I’m lost here……
You’re quick to bring up issues you think pertain to Jerry / EC….what about your issues with 55’s? Shall we bring them out here for everyone to read?? You may think people don’t know, but some of us do.
You’re quick to call EC copy tuners, but this is exactly what you have been accused of on the M5board and other BMW forums and by POWERCHIP themselves. Shall we post those links?
I'm pretty sure that you can manipulate the data for your benefit….
First you say you read an EC file off of 2 blown E55’s. Next, you say that the file is yours and you created it….Humm… So was the file yours or EC’s? I’m lost here……
You’re quick to bring up issues you think pertain to Jerry / EC….what about your issues with 55’s? Shall we bring them out here for everyone to read?? You may think people don’t know, but some of us do.
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Super Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 754
Likes: 10
From: Houston, TX
a car.
This is what plays in my head after reading nearly every post in this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,575
Likes: 8
From: BC
Haters crazy
http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=359326
If anyone missed this, seems relevant given the dyno manipulation accusations in this thread...
MODS - couldn't figure out whether we were allowed to link other forums in our posts c/o the TOU - please remove if this is against the rules.
If anyone missed this, seems relevant given the dyno manipulation accusations in this thread...
MODS - couldn't figure out whether we were allowed to link other forums in our posts c/o the TOU - please remove if this is against the rules.
I'm scared to drive my car now because how do I know my file wasn't screwed around with by OE. :|
Jerry can you please reflash my car with the tune you originally put on it.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 798
Likes: 4
From: HTX-->ATL -->CHI
2015 E63S 4Matic
This is what plays in my head after reading nearly every post in this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
But if we are all going down this road yet again, all readers should be informed.
This is where the thread is going:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQYO_5SvtnY
Newbie
Joined: May 2011
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92 mustang coupe stroked with nos
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,575
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From: BC
Haters crazy
I hope the OE tune isnt in the car... hence not driving it. Jerry is going to reflash the car with the Eurocharged tune, I will have the car re-dynoed after that and confirm the AF.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 417
Likes: 2
996tt
This is what plays in my head after reading nearly every post in this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
This thread keeps getting better....
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 417
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC
W212 E63
This is getting too funny, even MB can't guaranteed on the output of each motor to be identical since there must be some difference in each motor. Having said that, one motor might work better with one tune over the other. "A" motor with "A" tune might have more hp but less tq vs "A" motor with "B" tune. "B" motor with "A" tune might have less hp but higher tq...etc..
Afterall, if you don't like the result of "A" tune, try the "B" tune and look at the A/F ratio to see if it's safe for your motor.
Afterall, if you don't like the result of "A" tune, try the "B" tune and look at the A/F ratio to see if it's safe for your motor.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 754
Likes: 10
From: Houston, TX
a car.
This is getting too funny, even MB can't guaranteed on the output of each motor to be identical since there must be some difference in each motor. Having said that, one motor might work better with one tune over the other. "A" motor with "A" tune might have more hp but less tq vs "A" motor with "B" tune. "B" motor with "A" tune might have less hp but higher tq...etc..
Afterall, if you don't like the result of "A" tune, try the "B" tune and look at the A/F ratio to see if it's safe for your motor.
Afterall, if you don't like the result of "A" tune, try the "B" tune and look at the A/F ratio to see if it's safe for your motor.
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Joined: Jan 2008
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From: in the office...
2020 AMG GT-R PRO
A tailpipe AFR Sniffer is the most basic equipment to use and pretty much a must have at a dyno. It is more than sufficient to read AFRs accurately.
So there really isn't much of a "more accurate" unless you're running a full on drag car
Last edited by ShangoAshe; May 9, 2011 at 07:37 PM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,575
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From: BC
Haters crazy
The tail pipe sniffer would have the same readings as the pre-cat? Even though gases pass through cats, 2nd cats, resonators than the mufflers? Just curious...
Parm whats your take on the pre-cat vs tail pipe sniffer...
Parm whats your take on the pre-cat vs tail pipe sniffer...
Last edited by tbal; May 9, 2011 at 07:42 PM.
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From: Tacoma WA
Bicycle
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,575
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From: BC
Haters crazy
Post your new dyno results. How does the car feel now conpared to before? I'm having the bung installed will be doing few pulls later this week once Jerry re does the Eurocharged tune.
Last edited by tbal; May 9, 2011 at 10:27 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,677
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From: Los Angeles
C63
http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=359326
If anyone missed this, seems relevant given the dyno manipulation accusations in this thread...
MODS - couldn't figure out whether we were allowed to link other forums in our posts c/o the TOU - please remove if this is against the rules.
If anyone missed this, seems relevant given the dyno manipulation accusations in this thread...
MODS - couldn't figure out whether we were allowed to link other forums in our posts c/o the TOU - please remove if this is against the rules.
The OP of the "Dyno manipulation thread" (PENCILGEEK) Has had a personal vendetta with Gintani and OE tuning for a while now. Seems like an advocate for Powerchip.
Plus, Read the second post.
Mike Benvos analysis from POWERCHIP!!! Powerchip has had a hard on for OE tuning and bringing Jeremy's name down by any means he can.
You guys dont remember the thread when Wayne Besanko@Powerchip was posting personal info about Jeremy on MBworld??
You guys seeing a connection?
