For those who think the whine upon cold start up is you air injection pump.
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IT'S NOT!
When you turn your car on in the mornings you hear this power steering like whine that mostly goes away in about a minute or so. The general consensus in this forum is that the whine came from the secondary air injection pump.
Well, today I removed my SAIP and the whine is still there as it was before and would still quiet down after a minute or so. Shocked at my findings I was determined to find out where this noise came from. Since it sounds like a power steering whine, I checked the power steering pump. No go.
So I sat down thinking, what could sound like a power steering pump? It came to my mind that a transmission pump is actually pretty identical to a power steering pump in design and so I placed close attention to my transmission.
THE NOISE IS COMING FROM THE TRANSMISSION PUMP which is located near the torque converter. Granted, I've heard this same noise on every single E55 I've heard start up so I can only assume it's normal.
Anyways, hope this helps you guys sleep better. I know I will.
BTW- I'm guessing the SAIP weighs about 5lbs. Less than I expected but a lighter car is a lighter car...lol
When you turn your car on in the mornings you hear this power steering like whine that mostly goes away in about a minute or so. The general consensus in this forum is that the whine came from the secondary air injection pump.
Well, today I removed my SAIP and the whine is still there as it was before and would still quiet down after a minute or so. Shocked at my findings I was determined to find out where this noise came from. Since it sounds like a power steering whine, I checked the power steering pump. No go.
So I sat down thinking, what could sound like a power steering pump? It came to my mind that a transmission pump is actually pretty identical to a power steering pump in design and so I placed close attention to my transmission.
THE NOISE IS COMING FROM THE TRANSMISSION PUMP which is located near the torque converter. Granted, I've heard this same noise on every single E55 I've heard start up so I can only assume it's normal.
Anyways, hope this helps you guys sleep better. I know I will.
BTW- I'm guessing the SAIP weighs about 5lbs. Less than I expected but a lighter car is a lighter car...lol
You ask me to post our conversation (my part of it)...here is it:
...i think that you are wrong, because our cold start (and sometimes even hot) whine is made from engine OIL PUMP, not from tranny pump. Just go under the engine and listen under oil pan...you will hear oil pump buzzing. It is buzzing because it have 6 internal gears (because of 2 place oil pickup), on the other hand W220 S55k engine oil pump and SL55 oil pump have only 2 gears (because they only have 1 place oil pick up), so that is the reasson they dont whine).I know that because i personaly swap my blown E55 engine with new S55 engine, so i had to swap oil pumps also (and i put to pieces both of the pumps to clean them) .
Also i have discovered that with thinner oil (like german castrol 0W-30) buzzing (whine) goes away at cold start, but it continues to whine at hot. On the other hand i have discovered that with thick oil (mobil1 5W-50) buzzing is heavy when cold, but it totaly dissapeared when hot. In a few dazs i will try OEM mobil1 0W-40 oil (i am not big fan of that oil, so that is the reason why i havent put it in before) or some other 40 weigjt oil and see what will happen....
Also that buzzing (whine) is present only when idle and when rolling ONLY between idle and 1700 rpm. Anythink over that rpm it is quiet.
Go and listen and report back to me what you have discovered...
Also on that board there are at least 2 threads when people actualy swap oil pumps because of that whine, but with no succes-new instaled pumps did also whine. There is aslo a lot of threads here when people are describing noticably bigger whine after new oil change. Noise eventually goes down (but never totaly quiet)-it seems that we have to have perfect viscosity oil in specific climate for oil pump to not make buzz...
Thesere are my thoughts....
Last edited by Snogard; Jun 12, 2011 at 03:42 AM.
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Benz
Who ever told you that is correct.
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Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
Hi man!
You ask me to post our conversation (my part of it)...here is it:
...i think that you are wrong, because our cold start (and sometimes even hot) whine is made from engine OIL PUMP, not from tranny pump. Just go under the engine and listen under oil pan...you will hear oil pump buzzing. It is buzzing because it have 6 internal gears (because of 2 place oil pickup), on the other hand W220 S55k engine oil pump and SL55 oil pump have only 2 gears (because they only have 1 place oil pick up), so that is the reasson they dont whine).I know that because i personaly swap my blown E55 engine with new S55 engine, so i had to swap oil pumps also (and i put to pieces both of the pumps to clean them) .
Also i have discovered that with thinner oil (like german castrol 0W-30) buzzing (whine) goes away at cold start, but it continues to whine at hot. On the other hand i have discovered that with thick oil (mobil1 5W-50) buzzing is heavy when cold, but it totaly dissapeared when hot. In a few dazs i will try OEM mobil1 0W-40 oil (i am not big fan of that oil, so that is the reason why i havent put it in before) or some other 40 weigjt oil and see what will happen....
Also that buzzing (whine) is present only when idle and when rolling ONLY between idle and 1700 rpm. Anythink over that rpm it is quiet.
Go and listen and report back to me what you have discovered... Also on that board there are at least 2 threads when people actualy swap oil pumps because of that whine, but with no succes-new instaled pumps did also whine.
There is aslo a lot of threads here when people are describing noticably bigger whine after new oil change. Noise eventually goes down (but never totaly quiet)-it seems that we have to have perfect viscosity oil in specific climate for oil pump to not make buzz...
Thesere are my thoughts....
You ask me to post our conversation (my part of it)...here is it:
...i think that you are wrong, because our cold start (and sometimes even hot) whine is made from engine OIL PUMP, not from tranny pump. Just go under the engine and listen under oil pan...you will hear oil pump buzzing. It is buzzing because it have 6 internal gears (because of 2 place oil pickup), on the other hand W220 S55k engine oil pump and SL55 oil pump have only 2 gears (because they only have 1 place oil pick up), so that is the reasson they dont whine).I know that because i personaly swap my blown E55 engine with new S55 engine, so i had to swap oil pumps also (and i put to pieces both of the pumps to clean them) .
Also i have discovered that with thinner oil (like german castrol 0W-30) buzzing (whine) goes away at cold start, but it continues to whine at hot. On the other hand i have discovered that with thick oil (mobil1 5W-50) buzzing is heavy when cold, but it totaly dissapeared when hot. In a few dazs i will try OEM mobil1 0W-40 oil (i am not big fan of that oil, so that is the reason why i havent put it in before) or some other 40 weigjt oil and see what will happen....
Also that buzzing (whine) is present only when idle and when rolling ONLY between idle and 1700 rpm. Anythink over that rpm it is quiet.
Go and listen and report back to me what you have discovered...
Also on that board there are at least 2 threads when people actualy swap oil pumps because of that whine, but with no succes-new instaled pumps did also whine. There is aslo a lot of threads here when people are describing noticably bigger whine after new oil change. Noise eventually goes down (but never totaly quiet)-it seems that we have to have perfect viscosity oil in specific climate for oil pump to not make buzz...
Thesere are my thoughts....
Thanks for posting this. I guess you're more sure than I am...lol.
I did however get under the car and it sounded like it was coming from the transmission ( thus why I came to the conclusion ).
I've heard this whine on other M113's ( non supercharged ). I've even heard it on M112's. Since they all use the same transmission I thought it made sense.
Are you 100% sure it's the oil pump?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 102
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Thanks for posting this. I guess you're more sure than I am...lol.
I did however get under the car and it sounded like it was coming from the transmission ( thus why I came to the conclusion ).
I've heard this whine on other M113's ( non supercharged ). I've even heard it on M112's. Since they all use the same transmission I thought it made sense.
Are you 100% sure it's the oil pump?
I did however get under the car and it sounded like it was coming from the transmission ( thus why I came to the conclusion ).
I've heard this whine on other M113's ( non supercharged ). I've even heard it on M112's. Since they all use the same transmission I thought it made sense.
Are you 100% sure it's the oil pump?
Yeah, in my case and in all other E55 W211 that i have heard personaly
and on youtube (and read about it here) i am 100% that this whinning noise comes from our (abnormaly big) oil pump. I think that all E55 W211 are affected (some have more noise , some have less, bot none of them is noisless), but those with louder exhausts just dont hear it...Althoug nobody seems to have ANY problems with oil delivery (other then annoying whin).
If you like, i can post links of some threads from that board where people are describing this symptom (many of them first realized when they did first oil change-at that moment the whin is the loudest and eventualy goes away)...
My advice to you is just forget about it and dont worry (or avoid rpms under 1700 :-))))
EDIT: Can you send me your audio record recorded from the bottom of engine? I will tell you if it is the same buzz or not. But i am almost 100% that is is even without listening to your audio....
Although i can send you my audio record with 0W-30 German Castrol (which have the loudest whin when hot) and we can compare....
OT: Btw. i have discovered some other thing about oil filter and (upper part of)engine noise, but i wont make mess in this thread, so if you are interested you can PM me...
Last edited by Snogard; Jun 13, 2011 at 01:55 AM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
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From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
Yeah, in my case and in all other E55 W211 that i have heard personaly
and on youtube (and read about it here) i am 100% that this whinning noise comes from our (abnormaly big) oil pump. I think that all E55 W211 are affected (some have more noise , some have less, bot none of them is noisless), but those with louder exhausts just dont hear it...Althoug nobody seems to have ANY problems with oil delivery (other then annoying whin).
If you like, i can post links of some threads from that board where people are describing this symptom (many of them first realized when they did first oil change-at that moment the whin is the loudest and eventualy goes away)...
My advice to you is just forget about it and dont worry (or avoid rpms under 1700 :-))))
EDIT: Can you send me your audio record recorded from the bottom of engine? I will tell you if it is the same buzz or not. But i am almost 100% that is is even without listening to your audio....
Although i can send you my audio record with 0W-30 German Castrol (which have the loudest whin when hot) and we can compare....
OT: Btw. i have discovered some other thing about oil filter and (upper part of)engine noise, but i wont make mess in this thread, so if you are interested you can PM me...
and on youtube (and read about it here) i am 100% that this whinning noise comes from our (abnormaly big) oil pump. I think that all E55 W211 are affected (some have more noise , some have less, bot none of them is noisless), but those with louder exhausts just dont hear it...Althoug nobody seems to have ANY problems with oil delivery (other then annoying whin).
If you like, i can post links of some threads from that board where people are describing this symptom (many of them first realized when they did first oil change-at that moment the whin is the loudest and eventualy goes away)...
My advice to you is just forget about it and dont worry (or avoid rpms under 1700 :-))))
EDIT: Can you send me your audio record recorded from the bottom of engine? I will tell you if it is the same buzz or not. But i am almost 100% that is is even without listening to your audio....
Although i can send you my audio record with 0W-30 German Castrol (which have the loudest whin when hot) and we can compare....
OT: Btw. i have discovered some other thing about oil filter and (upper part of)engine noise, but i wont make mess in this thread, so if you are interested you can PM me...
I'll try to get under the car again, this time cold. I did it when warm where the whine is much quieter. Maybe cold it'll be apparent that it from the front.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 102
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Please, post all info regardless if it starts to go slightly off topic. I'm not worried about the noise as it's always been there and I beat the CRAP out of my car with no issues.
I'll try to get under the car again, this time cold. I did it when warm where the whine is much quieter. Maybe cold it'll be apparent that it from the front.
I'll try to get under the car again, this time cold. I did it when warm where the whine is much quieter. Maybe cold it'll be apparent that it from the front.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ine-noise.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-oil-pump.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...se-engine.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...oil-today.html
About oil filter element; It seems that using any other then OEM MAN filter is making engine idle very noisy because of lack of oil pressure. I discovered (with 3 different NON OEM aftermarket oil filter inserts) that they are collapsed after few 1000 km (because they dont have circle reinforcments arround filter body) and because of that collapsed state oil pressure drasticaly increase before filter element and DECREASE after filter element (when the oil comes into the engine itself), so THAT is the reason for noisier engine with non OEM filters. I know that because i use oil pressure sensor since owning my car. So sumam sumarum my advice is to use nothing else then OEM Mercedes (Mann) oil filter.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
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From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
Oil pump noises posted on that board that i have found:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ine-noise.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-oil-pump.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...se-engine.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...oil-today.html
About oil filter element; It seems that using any other then OEM MAN filter is making engine idle very noisy because of lack of oil pressure. I discovered (with 3 different NON OEM aftermarket oil filter inserts) that they are collapsed after few 1000 km (because they dont have circle reinforcments arround filter body) and because of that collapsed state oil pressure drasticaly increase before filter element and DECREASE after filter element (when the oil comes into the engine itself), so THAT is the reason for noisier engine with non OEM filters. I know that because i use oil pressure sensor since owning my car. So sumam sumarum my advice is to use nothing else then OEM Mercedes (Mann) oil filter.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ine-noise.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-oil-pump.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...se-engine.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...oil-today.html
About oil filter element; It seems that using any other then OEM MAN filter is making engine idle very noisy because of lack of oil pressure. I discovered (with 3 different NON OEM aftermarket oil filter inserts) that they are collapsed after few 1000 km (because they dont have circle reinforcments arround filter body) and because of that collapsed state oil pressure drasticaly increase before filter element and DECREASE after filter element (when the oil comes into the engine itself), so THAT is the reason for noisier engine with non OEM filters. I know that because i use oil pressure sensor since owning my car. So sumam sumarum my advice is to use nothing else then OEM Mercedes (Mann) oil filter.
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95 SL600
I believe that the common pump whine is coming from the pump not being able to suck the fluid through the filter and cavitating. Mione has been making that noise since I got it a few months ago, so I removed the filter from it today and noticed that the felt type media was stretched over the plastic filter,towards the flow of the fluid. this indicates to me that the media is not flowing enough.
I carefully removed the crimped on metal cover and removed the filter material, and put it back together. No trans whine on start-up, and much smoother second to third gear engagement. This no filter media thing is only a temporary experiment for me anyway.
The filter that was in the car was an aftermarket with gasket from advance auto. I think that I may look at the factory filter, but I would bet it is similar to the aftermarket if so many are having this issue. I may try wrapping the aftermarket filter in some sort of fine stainless mesh. My car only has 33,000 miles on it, so hopefully the trans will keep on.
I carefully removed the crimped on metal cover and removed the filter material, and put it back together. No trans whine on start-up, and much smoother second to third gear engagement. This no filter media thing is only a temporary experiment for me anyway.
The filter that was in the car was an aftermarket with gasket from advance auto. I think that I may look at the factory filter, but I would bet it is similar to the aftermarket if so many are having this issue. I may try wrapping the aftermarket filter in some sort of fine stainless mesh. My car only has 33,000 miles on it, so hopefully the trans will keep on.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5
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From: Zurich - Switzerland
SLK 55 AMG
Hi guys,
I'm following many threads about this "whining noise" because... I have the same Issue
It became instantly worst after the last oil change when a non MB garage filled a synthetic 5W40 oil. After 2 weeks we replaced it with Castrol 0W30 and it became even worst!
So I went to a MB garage nearby (I live in Switzerland) and they told me that some V8 engines are just noisy: they replaced already 3 oil pumps because of this complaint but without any particular result.
The second visit was to a MB garage in Germany: they had a costumer that filled some oil that wasn't Mobil 1 0W40 and from that moment on it had the same noise I have. They don't have any technical explanation for this, but the only thing that really helped was to fill the right oil, drive for a while and then change the oil again.
How is it possible? Are those engines that delicate?
Mine is a 2007 SLK 55 with 110'000 km.
Over here they say you HAVE to use Mobil 1 0W40 in AMG engines
I'm following many threads about this "whining noise" because... I have the same Issue
It became instantly worst after the last oil change when a non MB garage filled a synthetic 5W40 oil. After 2 weeks we replaced it with Castrol 0W30 and it became even worst!
So I went to a MB garage nearby (I live in Switzerland) and they told me that some V8 engines are just noisy: they replaced already 3 oil pumps because of this complaint but without any particular result.
The second visit was to a MB garage in Germany: they had a costumer that filled some oil that wasn't Mobil 1 0W40 and from that moment on it had the same noise I have. They don't have any technical explanation for this, but the only thing that really helped was to fill the right oil, drive for a while and then change the oil again.
How is it possible? Are those engines that delicate?
Mine is a 2007 SLK 55 with 110'000 km.
Over here they say you HAVE to use Mobil 1 0W40 in AMG engines
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From: Texas
2003 CL55
Good information on pump noise. How about all the people that get tranny oil inside thier TCU as well. That is a strange event. some
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
I checked this over and over again and after talking to some MB techs they assured me that it was the transmission pump that made the noise. Even my mother's C240 has the same whine. And I got under my car with a screw driver and when I pressed my ear up against screw driver and the transmission that's when the noise was the loudest BY FAR.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
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From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
I'm guessing brand new none of them whine...only with wear they start to whine.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Texas
2003 CL55
Have you heard of any pump failures? I have not heard of any yet and actaully suprisedhow much abuse these tranny`s can take. My American race cars would blow trannies about every 3 runs down the track..lol
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,230
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From: Vancouver, BC
CLS55 AMG
this one?
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...uild-pics.html
if so, if you read the first post, his pump didn't fail, it was the bushing
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...uild-pics.html
if so, if you read the first post, his pump didn't fail, it was the bushing
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
this one?
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...uild-pics.html
if so, if you read the first post, his pump didn't fail, it was the bushing
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...uild-pics.html
if so, if you read the first post, his pump didn't fail, it was the bushing
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
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From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Zurich - Switzerland
SLK 55 AMG
The pump is connected to the housing by 3 aluminum bolts: one was broken and one was loose. When the tranny reached certain temperatures (traffic, hill or sporty driving) the oil viscosity was so low that it leaked between the pump and the housing. Result: no 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. After cooling everything was fine again.
Back to the engine oil: I have 9 liters of Mobil 1 0W40 in the trunk, I'll post the results asap
