E55Greasemonkey

I left a message Friday afternoon with D.O. and have not received a call back yet. Either way I will be sending the controller back on Monday. Meanwhile, here are some pictures with my tank location, and the controller problem. Notice the yellow light on constantly, regardless of the float sensor position in the tank. When I turn the "max" boost trigger to 30 PSI or close to 30 PSI the green pump light stays on constantly. This is with key "on" engine not running, and pump disconnected so I don't flood the engine.

Kelvin07

^^^ this is the EXACT SAME problem I'm having with my controller.

Would you please tell what is the Devil's own return info?.

E55Greasemonkey

Last time they emailed me an RMA form to return them the wrong sized hose they had sent. I had to pay $5.50 shipping for their mistake, which the money is not relevant, but the principle is. I still have the form, however, just looking at their site, I found this:


Devilsown Injection will not accept any returns after thirty (30) days beginning on the date of the invoice unless Pre-Approved. For a return RMA you must contact Devilsown for approval. The item must be un-installed in the original box, in new, unused condition. You must have your original receipt and must contact us within ten (10) days of receiving your item. All opened returns are subject to a twenty (20) percent re-stocking including the original shipping charge. If un-opened you are just responsible for the original shipping cost. You are responsible for shipping the item to us at your expense.

I will call them again Monday to get approval to return the controller. It is important to follow their instructions in case a credit card dispute has to be filed later. (I am sure this will not be needed)

I will also email them later and direct them to the pictures in this thread.

E55Greasemonkey

At this point I would advise against doing any business with DevilsOwn. Phone messages and emails go unanswered. They seem understaffed and disorganized. I was able to get Chance on the phone yesterday, told him about my previous call and email with pictures, which he seemed to know nothing about, said he was sorry and would email me an RMA for the controller. He told me if I didn't get the email in a few minutes to email him a reminder?? How many reminders do I have to send? Well,he never sent the email to me. I found the last RMA he sent and mailed the faulty controller back today with the RMA form, with a note asking that if it cannot be fixed or replaced quickly to refund me for the controller and I will keep the rest of the system. It's now going on 6 weeks since I paid for the system, and have yet to have it function. What a hassle...and now $15 out of pocket and 2 trips to the post office for return shipping, meanwhile I am missing out on the last bit of good weather to go to the track.

Kelvin- PM me your email address and I will send you the RMA form with the shipping address.

Georgee6086

That's terrible, they will most likely just sent u a new controller. The problem now is that it will always be in the back of you mind wondering if and when the new controller will eff off on u.

Kelvin07

I just bought the Zeitronix alarm and relay to activate the pump based on parameters I will set on the ZT-2, it will give me peace of mind.

One thing I've thinking about today, we are probably running some very huge nozzles, are we perhaps overspraying, like, A LOT?

I'm just asking, because when you do the calculation on DO's website, you enter your engine size, MAX boost, MAX RPM, and it usually gives you a 10 to 12 nozzle.

Thing is most of us reach close to MAX boost very early on the rpm's... right?

Also, most of us are NOT activating the mist at MAX BOOST, we are using it starting from 5 to 7 PSI (at least I am), and and unlike a turbo we reach 5-7psi as early as 2500rpm, and that's when the pump comes on, and driving around town, or even on the highway, I rarely go past 5000rpm and if I do, it's for short period of time, unless it's late at night and the highway is empty.

Why do we need a 12nozzle spraying a TON of mix at 2500rpms?, when the calculation was made for 6500rpm?, if that formula were boost ONLY sensitive, why would they include the MAX RPMs?, I'm guessing they need those max values to calculate max needs for guys that tune for meth. We don't.

Does that make sense?

Some may argue, that under max load is when you want the spray hitting hard, helping keep your IAT's low, but, when do you really take your engine to max rpm (other than in a dyno or a drag race)?.

EDIT: I calculated MAX Boost at 10 and MAX RPM 4500 (my super max rpm value driving around town), I get a 7nozzle. Again, I don't tune for it, so I don't need my engine flooded with mix, I might even go smaller than 7.

E55Greasemonkey

This is the reason for using a progressive controller. Sounds like your new setup
is either on or off? Also why I chose to follow other recomnendations
here for the dual nozzles, 3 and 7. The 3 before SC will
evaporate quickly,leaving the 7 as a smaller size before
going into the cylinders. I plan to run straight distilled water and have
read to run nozzles in the smaller end of the range for your HP
rating if using straight water.

Georgee6086

Are you logging afr's? I though I read in a previous post that you are tunned a little lean to compensate for the meth. I think running straight water will lean you out more.

Kelvin07

Indeed, it will either be on or off.

I would be very careful with the nozzle size pre-blower, remember that water takes a lot longer than meth to evaporate.

I would run their smallest size nozzle pre-blower.

Kelvin07

I just spoke to Leroy from Devil's own, he advised to use their smallest nozzle pre-blower, his advise "you always want to avoid over-spray, specially when using only to decrease IATs", I will follow that advise, and use a nozzle #1 pre-blower and probably a #6 post blower.

E55Greasemonkey

Just a quick update. I finally got my replacement controller today and installed tonight, and it works!! It's wet outside, humid, went for a quick drive and things look promising. A few short 1-2 second full throttle bursts, and after pulling over I can feel the back half of the SC cool enough to hold my hand,where the front I could barely touch it. The passenger rear surge tank also felt cooler than the front half, and cooler than the drivers side although even thi side felt cooler towards the back than the front. I suspect the nozzle location after the intercooler, being on one side has something to do with this. I need to test some more, the temp may even out across both tanks after a longer burst of water injection. I am running 100% distilled water at the moment. The car felt punchy and strong. Dials set around 8 PSI start and 10 PSI full. Could not get the engine to bog at part throttle or anywhere else in the RPM band. So far, so good.

E55Greasemonkey

Can you elaborate on the "I have mine halfway between the end of the core and the IAT sensor, as close to horizontal as I could get it." ....IS the nozzle shooting up or from the side?

Exotic-metal55

I still like using the spray bar set up from Nitrous outlet. You can drill and tap spray bars into your air tanks and then use meth , nitrous or whatever all hidden in teh back and clean set up.

http://blog.nitrousoutlet.com/superc...y-bar-systems/

rockthemullet

Nozzle is shooting from the driver side, close to horizontal. Positioned where the casting reduces from the core width to the Y-pipe width

E55Greasemonkey

Thanks for the reply. That's where mine is. Have you noticed the passenger side surge tank feeling cooler than the drivers side? It seems more water may get sprayed onto the passenger side and pushed up into that surge tank. OF course I only ran 1-2 seconds of injection..maybe there is a little lag time before both side cool the same

rockthemullet

I never noticed but I'll check the next time I get the car out and update the thread. I guess if it's that much of a concern, you could run two nozzles and split the size

Gadget

I have been doing water/methanol injection for many years and I can tell you the very best way to do it is to run the water/methanol through the supercharger compressor.

This is where the heat is generated and you are directly address it. Next the fluid takes up the space between the rotors and the housing making a better seal and makes the compressor more efficient. The water/methanol will vaporize in the compressor and will go everywhere the air leaving the compressor goes and you get the best and the most even distribution into each combustion chamber.

Don't over do it. Plan your flow to be about 20% of fuel flow and use a system that matches it to fuel flow or air flow.

The easiest way is to mount the nozzle before the throttle valve. That way you will not have manifold vacuum trying to suck through the nozzle when not needed. If you install post throttle valve make sure you use the correct crack valved to prevent the siphoning when in vacuum.

All this talk of before/after IAT is puzzling. I would think you would want the IAT to read the true IAT entering the engine. With the E55 its placement is ideal for this. Run the water/methanol through the compressor and it will read the actual IAT taking into account the reduction resulting from the injection. Don't worry, if you don't exceed 20% it will be all vaporized and you will not be wetting the sensor.

That is how I would do it.

G

shardul

iTrader: (1)

Well said gadget

E55Greasemonkey

I am running 2 nozzles- one before the supercharger and one after intercooler. Between being home sick for 2 days and constant rain, I haven't been able to do much testing. I can feel the back half of the supercharger cool after 1-2 second bursts of boost. Too much traffic lately for a good pull. Hopefully I'll get out to the track in a week or two. If you read through the thread I went with this dual nozzle setup based on the experience of others who had tried many locations.

Gadget

I would not run that second one after the intercooler.

I do not see how you can assure even distribution with that position and you can be wetting the IAT and cause it to give a false reading to the ECU.

G

Kelvin07

How many ml/min or GPH are you using pre-supercharger?

Gadget

I have not run water injection on my E55.

I always targeted the water injection to be 20% of fuel flow. So you have to find your injector capacity and do some math. Figure out what it will take your system to flow 20% of fuel flow. I always used systems that kept the water flow proportional to fuel flow.

Water injection has some nice benefits, but when done wrong it can be not so good.

I have always been a huge fan of Aquamist systems. I believe those systems are the finest available. I know the market is now FLOODED with different water/methanol injection companies and systems and it is really hard to sort through the mess these days.

G

E55Greasemonkey

When the weather dries out a bit here I'll do some more testing. I'll block off the post intercooler nozzle for now since I am not getting even distribution to left and right banks, and try a larger nozzle (now running a DO3) Pre-supercharger. I'm not really in a mood to pull the supercharger off again. My small nozzle is located right after the throttle body and I have a solenoid to keep the vacuum from sucking water. Pre TB to me is not a good place IMO because the mist hits the throttle butterfly likely causing larger droplets to form. I'm not convinced a single nozzle pre-supercharger is going to cool enough.Of course it's mostly all theory right now.

E55Greasemonkey

Went and did some highway testing. It was 68F today and humid. I recorded the highest boost ever, 14.1psi not surprising as I've read that the water running through the rotors will increase boost. Previously, without Water Injection (WI from here on) it was 13.1psi max. A/F stayed in the 11's throughout the test pulls. 11.4 was about average. The car ran smooth except for one point when I turned the controller to come on full power at 14 psi., made a pull then shut the car off 4 seconds later. As I restarted and pulled off there was a slight misfire and lack of power felt. This never happened again, I suspect turning the car off too soon left some water to pool somewhere.

As a note, it's very difficult to watch my IAT reading, A/F meter, and boost controller and drive the car, so take all these readings with a grain of salt.

The difference in temperatures from left side to right side, at least on the top of the surge tanks, not taken internally of course, was between 1 and 3 deg F. Not sure if I'm going to worry about it any more.

I set the controller to come on @ 7psi and full at 10psi
Changing the settings to full at 14psi in an effort to spray less water resulted in higher temps of the surge tanks and slightly higher IATs.

On average under full throttle I saw 95-105F IATs with WI on. Turned off I saw it climb to 125F in the same time frame.

Supercharger exterior temps after a WI burst for 3-4 seconds, showed 74F near the inlet,97F near outlet. Surge tanks were 80/81 rear and 86/89 front.

Conclusion? It works to keep the IAT's down. What that translates to HP I'm not sure. I could not tell any difference during short highway pulls whether it was on or off. I do, however, feel a big difference at lower speeds driving in town, the car always feel more crisp turned on vs off, suspecting the heat soak being kept at bay. On the highway I think the heatsoak is less of an issue.

Next time out, I will add some methanol to see what difference it makes. I will also schedule some dyno time soon to test the system on and off and see if I'm gaining any HP. And then off to the track maybe in a week to also see real world results. Typically at the track I see 155F IAT at the end of the 1/4. If the WI keeps it around 100~F there should be some gains.

Georgee6086

Great information, keep up the good work!