I searched around ALOT, and Came to a conclusion that Headers add in the neighborhood of 35WHP + on a Stock car.

Cant Go wrong with that at 995.00 lol

 

I called you a little while ago...I will call you tomorrow after I decide if I want them. Just so busy right now that I do not have time to think about headers...but I am still thinking. lol

A little feedback might help me but still trying to figure out why MBH's are so much more money!

 

so whats the cost of the install?

 

depending who does them... nothing under 500$

 

I think Kleemans are considered to be a mid-length header, whereas the MBH is a full-length header. MBH is also made of stainless tubing and TIG welded, I don't remember if Kleemans are mild-steel or stainless. MBH headers make more documented power as well.

For the record, MBH also did a group buy price... I picked up my set for $2495 IIRC. They are the top-of-the-line headers for the E55. You won't find a better looking or performing header anywhere. Ultimately you have to decide whether its worth the premium price..

-G

 

It looks like you have little work done and added headers so what was the gain in your opinion? This is the feedback I am looking for. How about installation and noise. I will PM you. Thx

 

I have Kleemanns on my CLS55. Installation took about 4-5 hours @ a shop rate of $90. Fit was good but they do require welding.
Sound is very much stock at idle and cruising. A little deeper with no drone. Throttle down is deep and loud. Great sound.
I picked up about 35whp and 25wtq from the Kleemanns. I already had an SC pulley before the headers.

If I were to do it again, I'd grab the headers and tune as my first mod.

 

MBH yes are longtubes but i cant justify $3000 for them. They say you gain 45whp, Which is a GREAT gain from 1 mod ! The reason you gain so much power is Because
1. Losing the Restrictive Stock Manifold.
2. Deleting the Primary Catalyst converter.
3. Deleting the awful H pipe right after the Header which is SO restrictive.

You Can do all that With those Kleemann Headers - For $995. 1/3 Of the Price !

Kleemann ARE Mid length Headers they are not SHORTY headers , Due to MBH being Longtubes there is 5-10hp that MIGHT be left on the table... But I cant justify a EXTRA $2000 for 5-10hp . That extra $2k can go into a pulley, tune, He etc... Which will Net me ALOT more.

As Far as the welding Once again I have a welder and do all my own Work, But if taken to a INDY shop your looking @ $100 to weld those suckers including some new pipes they might want to sell you lol. Still a Great deal.

These were my thoughts on when I decided to pick up the Kleemann's over the Rest of the headers out there.

 

Just for ****s and Giggles I called a buddy of mine to ask him how much he would charge to INSTALL + WELD - he quoted me $500. - If i intall them and brign it over to him for welding $100.

Or I can Just stop being lazy on a sunday and get down to it lol

 

Can't go wrong with either Kleemanns or MBH. Both have good gains and one of the first mods that should be done along with a tune.

 

I've got them installed, but not in the way you probably think..... they are VERY quiet with this sort of installation, however.




I know that you've spoken to Bruce @ T/T/M in the past, and my purchase of these headers was based on several conversations with him. Noise is really not an issue for ANY header if you don't want it to be. The drone and obnoxious sound levels are more a function of chopping out the factory resonator and mufflers further downstream. If you leave those factory parts in place the car will still sound nice and polite at part-throttle and cruising. You only get the deep, ballsy sound when you go WOT..... and personally, that's how I like it.

I had a chance to ride in Bruce's personal car when I visited his shop, and he's got the MBHs on it, with his own x-pipe setup. The car seems totally normal in regular traffic, and it's totally comfortable and luxurious.... just like factory. But when he decides to romp on it, it's like the gates of hell were just flung open and a thousand angry demons were released into the engine compartment.... 540WHP is an amazing rush. I was giggling like a schoolgirl during that ride.

My car goes to T/T/M next month for some upgrades, to be honest I'm not sure if these headers will be part of my Phase-1 work with Bruce or not. I've got quite a bit of other work for him to do first, and he may run out of time (or I may run out of money!) before everything can get completed. I'll take them down off the wall of my office and bring them to his shop just in case....maybe he'll surprise me.

For the record, there is nothing wrong with Kleeman headers. Bruce has plenty of nice things to say about those as well, and he uses them regularly on cars that he builds... but when I asked him what the best "money-no-object" header would be, he told me MBH. He didn't sell me the headers so he had no reason to "upsell" me on them, they just happen to be the ones he likes the best and he makes more power with them on his cars.


-G

 

/\ Sorry to get off topic. Nice set of Martin Logan's you got there Greg

Aaron

 

Why would Bruce have the MBH headers on his car when he helped design the ARH ones? Was that a while ago or recently?

 

I'm embarrassed to say how long ago I purchased those MBHs... but yes, there was no such thing as ARH headers back in those days.

The Martin Logans were relegated to my office when I got married a few years ago. My bride loved the sound quality, but just couldn't deal with speakers that large in the living room..... her loss!!


-G

 

Well, you picked a good header to not install They're a handsome piece and serve a dual purpose as modern art

 

At the time when i decided to get headers kleemann had the same special $995 but on backorder. I was fortunate to get the Mbh header and test pipe for $2100 as a second choice. If the Kleemanns were in stock I would have them on the car.

 

Aren't you guys experiencing down low torque loss with headers? (With the exception of GregMB). Those without pulley upgrades, just headers and tune.

 

There are extremely fast cars with Kleemann headers, and extremely fast cars with MBH headers. The MBH have T321 stainless flanges...the price of materials on these alone are tremendous. Technically, the Kleemans are shorties and the MBH are mid-length. Besides the length difference, there are other factors you may or may not want to consider:

MBH: 1 3/4" primaries, merge spike, 3" collector, bolt-on.
Kleemann: 1 5/8" primaries (actual ID 1.52" due to welds), 2.75" collector, must be welded.

You can also get the ARH system (true LT) as a complete bolt-on like the MBH, so make sure you factor in the cost of local fabrication and labor for the Kleemans.

 

Yep, you will definitely lose a bit of boost with a free-flowing exhaust....

You also "lose" heat in the engine compartment, so it stands to reason that you should have more consistent power (top end) with IATs under better control.

Up until recently, I thought that a smaller upper pulley would be a perfect way to get back the boost that was lost from a header install.... but the recent issues with pulley failures is causing me to reconsider....

-G

 

I'm very happy with my Kleemann's and SC pulley, gone 11.70 with the setup. My pulley looks fine, taje that

 

I'm very happy with my Kleemann's and SC pulley, gone 11.70 with the setup. My pulley is working fine.

 

The other thing is that MBH is hand made by a sole proprietor here that takes pride in his work, and the Kleemans are chinese pieces that would retail for about $129.99 if they fit anything other than a Mercedes. Talk about a price rape.

 

in for Chinese group buy @ $129

 

They're about $30-40 each side wholesale depending on how many you buy.

 

What?? Didnt know that. Sort of like how PLM headers knockoff of Renntech ones?? Glad i ended up getting MBH headers.