cahiil55k

I hope everything turns out well for all parties involved. But, the one thing I've learned about this forum is that we lose great members when enthusiasts-turned-tuner/vendor produce mods that eventually lead to threads like this.

pimpjuice

is it just me or did I miss something? I didnt see anyone bash anyone or point fingers yet. All I saw was a post saying they are talking and emailing each other. I have only been on these boards for a lil over 2 years and haev a vast amount of respect for the parties involved. i am sure they will be able to work out whatever has happened in the ebst way possible for everyone. Although I enjoy seeing everyone's "input" as comical reading to break up a boring morning, we should stay out of it and let them work it out. I see the pictures and statements made by Chawkins as a warning for those with RTR pullies to go check their stuff out and make sure the same thing isn't happening to them. Unless they are running a 195, I doubt they will have an issue.

I have bought parts from both sides and will continue to do so and they have both been extremely helpful with working with me.

I hope you guys work this thing out. Until then, I will keep reading the post to get a chuckle from the peanut gallery.

PimpJuice

e55amgrocket

Im going to post this here also.The original message was on PSC

Ok Brooke lets do this. I like your stab at "Even more challenging on high power race cars that have multiple power adders like nitrous." Yea that was for me. Let put some facts out here now since you have decided to turn your back on me now and wont respond to text messages. I contacted you March 2nd saying my pulley is scuffing the water pump pulley after Craig had his come off. I sent you pictures AND a video. Your response was "There is no problem and there are a ton of them out there. His was loose right away and that is classic install or bad key way" So i trusted you and let it be after checking the the bolt was not loose. When i told you the pulley was messed up last week and threw the belt i didnt post about it because i like to get to the bottom of things before pointing fingers. I got the pulley off with my engine builder and found the crank beyond repair. I texted you that night with no response but Shardul did call saying he would send a crankshaft out. We talked for over 30 minutes yesterday and you agreed the pulley was installed CORRECTLY. The shop uses a snap on torque wrench that you can stop on the middle of setting the torque on a bolt and start over and it will start where it left off. It also does the same thing on doing the 90 degree stretch. So lets take that out of the equation also. My engine builder contacted ATI racing products who are just over 1 hour from us and talked to the guy that designs the pulleys. He said that they have made a custom pulley for the M113 engine and had all the specs. He asked us to measure the inner bore of your pulley and we did so and gave it to him. He said Whoa thats pretty loose. He then went on the tell us exactly what would happen if i ran that pulley with the large outer ring without us even telling him what happened. Low and behold he described EXACTLY what had already happened to me without even knowing i already had the pulley trash my crankshaft. Another thing that we both know is Mercedes DOSE NOT SAY TO LOCK THE FLYWHEEL. We both know your supposed to hold the crank but your pulley dosent allow for that either. You want me to send you the pulley back so you can say there's nothing wrong with it.....Well i wasn't born yesterday. I asked you yesterday and today what do you think is fair in this situation and your newest response was "Not defective, ur bolt came loose on a race car on nitrous at a track that u knew about. I tried to help u but it clear all along where u stand. Send the product back if you claim defect..what address do i send the call tag too?" Your help was that you will refund the money on the pulley and send me a used crank but that seems to have gone too. I tried to stay quiet but i'm not going to let you try to twist the truth and blame it on nitrous now. Your looking for a scapegoat now. Since there was so much testing put into this pulley put all the data and info out so we can see it. Tell everyone how many pulleys have really came off or how Sharduls came off and there wasnt a work spoken about it. Maybe it wasnt install error after all. I've given you a chance to do the right thing or even discuss what you thought was fair without making it public.

BenzoDoc

This isn't necessary.

You're taking a shot at two of the most honest people I have ever met, asking for data without providing data or evidence of your own.

If you're looking for an impartial judge of the pulley as you say, why in God's name would you send it somewhere with a competing product? That's like sending the pulley to Renntech and asking what's wrong with it.

Don't get me wrong, I feel for you and Craig, and want to get to the bottom of this just like anyone else. But injecting emotion and brashly bringing a company into this that everyone is going to question is just going to muck this up even more. What does sending it to them even accomplish?

e55amgrocket

What isn't necessary is my crankshaft all tore up and having to remove the engine and replace the crankshaft. Honest? Trying to find any reason not to step up now isn't honest in my book. So you think if i send the pulley back to Brooke he will say oh yea man there was a problem with this pulley?? ATI dosen't have a horse in this race and has no reason to lie. Sending it to them will tell me why it failed and whats wrong and what needs to be done to fix it.

xpl0sive

I wonder if EC tested these pulleys before selling them... EC is now running a special selling the RTR pulleys along with their tune... My guess is if someone bought the RTR pulley from EC, they would go back to EC if something went wrong... So EC is putting their name on a product that really hasn't been tested and has failed multiple times causing serious engine damage.

blackbenzz

I don't understand. How does running nitrous on a car make it harder to torque a pulley bolt?

The bolt holds the pulley on not the keyway.

And as started before Mb uses a tool to hold the crank pulley while you torque the bolt. Not lock the flywheel. But some pulley designs don't allow for This tool to be used... Like the rtr

BenzoDoc

I don't have an answer for you. I never said sending it to Brooke was the answer, unless you want a refund.

I just think exhausting civil options is better for you in the long run.

bnzuovr

And another great quote i could'nt agree more I like the enthusiasim for developing parts but lets keep it real were not engineers.

chawkins2001

Unfortunately, it is not as simple as just sending back mine or Steve's pulley back anymore. This is catastrophic failure to the crank and thus the motor. Giving your pulley back right now is getting rid of a key piece of evidence. Naturally the manufacturer would deny anything was wrong with it, or say installer error again. The reasoning causing the failure will come out in due time, but in the mean time, members can only speculate as there is a bigger picture to look at here.

For example, your car has been running fine for two years on tune "A", you go to a new tuner and get a brand new tune, called tune "B". Well on the way home your motor blows up. There is a 99.9% chance your blown motor relates to tune B. At that point the tuner for tune "B" can work with you to make your car whole again, or deny that his tune caused any failure at all. You telling me, if that happened to your car with tune B in it, you would say, oh well, that pumps, I will be on my merry way.


There has been zero contact made on behalf of redtooth racing owners to me, Brooke is claiming their product (RTR) is sound, and were are just haters and butt sour. What does that tell you, they have no interest in making things right behind the scenes.
All I was told was to send an email to redtoothracing off their website, state what my problem is. I had some yahoo saying any warranty items needs to be returned for inspection, common bru, open your f*****g eyes.
Other than that, nothing has been happening on my end. I would hardly call that customer service, it basically says, you bought a defective product from me, it hurt your motor, now F***k off, I am not concerned with it.
Well, that may work with some high school or college kid still green behind the ears, but I am not going going away that easily.

W109 W211 6.2L

I am certain Craig knew what he was getting into walking the modification path as he seems to have done with many cars before.

However I have had these problems in the past, and have come to the realization that altho chasing the power numbers allows you to become a "innovator" in the community. Nobody is willing to pay for their mistakes when looking to achieve these numbers.

I wish Craig the best in his situation, l truly enjoy the enthusiam he brings to the AMG W211 cars, and would hate to see him move on to BMW or Audi.

That being said these are $90,00 cars new. You are playing with a motor that Mercedes and AMG mainly Mercedes put 10s of Millions in research and development into, and we (W211 Community) are trying to reinvent the process. To an extent these mods make sense as they have been done on other cars and motors with similar setups. When you start to push the limits is when you remember what these cars cost. My advice is not to chase the power number,there will always be someone/something faster. Enjoy the car for the modern automotive marvel it is. A 2003 E55 in stock for even lightly modded form will outrun 90% of the cars produced in 2012, that says alot about the car.

chawkins2001

That is not the point brotha. These cars have been around since 2002 when they came out, people have been running pulleys from the begining of time, big ones at that. Sure I push the envelope, but the one thing that has been around from the begining of time is what hurt my car, not only mine, but Steve's. On top of that, several have fallen off other cars, Sharduls included, so there is a relevant problem here.

blackbenzz

Funny you mention that. That happened to me and there was zero support and tuner claimed my engine was weak. On first pull post tune it broke all 8 piston ringlands. There sure is some ****ty customer service in the Mb tuner world. But that's an off topic story for another time

BustedKnuckles

[quote=W109 W211 6.2L;5154816]I am certain Craig knew what he was getting into walking the modification path as he seems to have done with many cars before.

However I have had these problems in the past, and have come to the realization that altho chasing the power numbers allows you to become a "innovator" in the community. Nobody is willing to pay for their mistakes when looking to achieve these numbers.quote]

Ive never posted on here before, hell i've never even made an account until now. But all the misinformation no hard facts or evidence is out of control. I couldn't agree more then with the post above. I know i'll be bashed but frankly don't care what Chawkins has to say, ive always skimmed threw the forums in my free time here at the shop when works slow. And just for some backround I work and have worked at a mercedes dealership now for over 9 years and work on a few of the local SLR's, v12tt's, and uncountable 55's. This whole pulley debockle is comical. I mean Chawkins your pulley fell OFF on the dyno right after install, your installer BIP installed it wrong not a doubt in my mind for a second. The damning evidence there is that after they told you the crank snout was okay and smooth was again wrong and a lie, did they dismantle the front engine cover mic the end of the crank and compare it to a new crank for tolerances??? No im sure they didn't. So you DONT know if the crank was any good, which again im positive it wasnt. So further more they pin your crank......And magically the pulley staid on for what your saying is dyno runs, a 100 miles and yes it has wobble but didnt come off yet, so thats about 100 times longer then it originally staid on, any common sense would tell you they did not have it on correct the first time. Secondly how many pulleys have you had on your car how many times did they incorrectly install the previous one was the key way checked each time surely not. So the way I see it is that even if you put back on a 180 factory hubbed pulley the same outcome would be inevitable, bad install = bad crank = bad outcome no matter if its pinned, keywayed, or welded on the damn crank. No way ever does a pulley come loose spin the keyway and the machined fit and finish is the same period. Seems BIP tried to cover there mistake and Pinning the crank is not the anwser once the crank has damage, If anything I would be pissed at them as well for doing that. Further more about 6-7 years ago mercedes has a huge recall campaign on ML500's and 320s that had what they considered to be faulty pulleys thousands were replaced, and I can tell you that even at the dealership I work at 5 came back within a 4 month period to where the recall had started where the pulleys came loose from techs in the shop not getting the torque correct even though they were following the mercedes specs and procedure. And those pulleys dont have nearly the resistance of the 55 with the kompressor belt and oversized pulley that you guys are running. Dude just man up stop being a baby and either fix your car or leave it in the garage. Your modding your car, your mixing parts from different vendors/people, your personally not doing the install so you have jadded information from all angles. I know there's another member on here with issue's and you can try and coincide your mishap with his but here im just addressing you and your situation based on all your previous posts, threads, and comments.

War Tank

It's amazing that some people think because you spend a few dollars on a pulley or tune, and when engine failure occurs, they are entitled to be reimburse for engine repair. When you modify your car from stock its a chance YOU take. There is no warranty modifying stock engine. GOOD luck.

MRAMG1

That is one sentence that I could NEVER argue with my friend

I am NOT placing blame on ANY side here, but as one infamous person stated, "Once you chang from OEM, all bets are off"


Just saying, not hating

Good luck to all

blackbenzz

The recall wasn't just for ml500 and ml320s. Which dealership are you a technician at?

If a part is defective and shown to be the direct cause of damages then the seller should be held liable.

e55amgrocket

[quote=BustedKnuckles;5154882] Further more about 6-7 years ago mercedes has a huge recall campaign on ML500's and 320s that had what they considered to be faulty pulleys thousands were replaced

Perfect example thanks for bringing that up. They had a faulty pulley and RECALLED them because of it. Bingo!!!

MRAMG1

While I agree with you Ahmad 100%.

If you have read the fine print on things like, home inspection, under-body protection, etc, etc, they are ONLY liable for the cost of their product/service.

It sucks, but that is life.

Good luck to all

blackbenzz

Well that sucks. But I didn't see any fine print with the pulley

MRAMG1

I hear you.

What sucks is we have an issue between a group of GOOD people.

I wish all a good outcome

BustedKnuckles

Fact, the recall was not limited to just ML's but the majority of the faulty part numbers fell within the production of ML's. And Yes if the part is proven to be faulty, but where is the data, measurments, tooling used for install, installer comments/posts supporting arguements, crank analysis from intial pulley coming off. And I can tell you that even at my time here at the dealer rbm, that there has been two stock 55 motors that had slung the factory pulleys within the first 10,000 miles which hadn't been replaced or tampered with, seems the installer of those two inparticularly in germany would most likely be at fault.

BustedKnuckles

Why are you talking like this is your car and your situation? Your awfully defensive without a supporting arguement, credentials, or facts. The pulley could be bad absolutly but why not prove it and not spectulate at it.

adianaty

Since we have a technician on, can you explain why MB hasn't chosen to use some kind of thread locker on the bolts. It still baffles me that this isn't routine. It just seems like with anything that goes through this level of abuse (clutch turning on and off, harmonics from the belts, loading from the blower) that they would just make it as dummy proof as possible...

BustedKnuckles

They do in fact come with a thread locker from the factory but if the bolt comes loose from incorrect installation mostly in the aftermarket applications thread locker is more or less there to keep things thats are torqued moderatly from loosing and backing out, a crank pulley and rotational force is going to overcome any thread locker regardless at that point. It all comes down to proper installation of a "good" pulley, on a good crank and keyway.