Transmission flush at dealer, now car wont move
05-26-2012, 10:53 PM
#51
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Read this. It's obvious you have not. I do not feel like repeating it all.
I've been involved with the Benz approvals programme my entire Oilco career approaching 40 years. Benz have a fabulous testing regime. Labs far better than anything Royal Purple have - in fact Royal Purple have no real research facilities - You need to go to a major for that. The cost of running our research labs exceeds Royal Purple's annual turnover many, many times. Benz works long and hard with the oil industry to look after their products & customers, much as Cat do for Earthmoving. Their approvals process is completely legit.
https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...722-6-atf.html
I've been involved with the Benz approvals programme my entire Oilco career approaching 40 years. Benz have a fabulous testing regime. Labs far better than anything Royal Purple have - in fact Royal Purple have no real research facilities - You need to go to a major for that. The cost of running our research labs exceeds Royal Purple's annual turnover many, many times. Benz works long and hard with the oil industry to look after their products & customers, much as Cat do for Earthmoving. Their approvals process is completely legit.
https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...722-6-atf.html
I will have to go back and re-read this post to see why there seems to be such a strong debate over changing fluid....
05-27-2012, 10:28 AM
#52
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Actually I did and again, nothing to substantiate your claims. It is obvious that you are only interested in pushing Mercedes products because you are involved in it-it is a personal agenda for you, and not interested in the end user. You have still failed to answer why people should deal with the softer lower viscosity fluid other than to state that 'most' folks say the newer fluid is a stronger shift. Funny how nobody has posted that up anywhere that I have seen. Another Mercedes perspective? Softer shifts = less shock on the transmission resulting in longer life at the expense of sportiness?
I am not disputing that the new fluid has more friction additives or other improvements, I am not agreeing to it either. However we are not talking about a little slow 350 here, these are high powered cars and the transmission is simply not going to last 1,000,000 miles. Period. You see, over here, in this forum, we are not running 15 second cars.
Most here want stronger shifts. Your deliberate attempt at ignoring the end users complaints on shift quality is exactly indicative of what people complain about with Mercedes dealers. "Customer is wrong, dealer thinks they are always correct. " How do you know how the RP will test out as according to the one of their techs I spoke with last year they never submitted to Mercedes for testing as Mercedes charges 'ridiculous' fees. For someone to state people should not run a particular fluid because they know nothing about it is downright wrong.
Should I not run certain premium fuels in my Mercedes because Mercedes has not tested them all either? Does the pump need to state 'Certified by Mercedes' before I decide to pump the gas?
I am not disputing that the new fluid has more friction additives or other improvements, I am not agreeing to it either. However we are not talking about a little slow 350 here, these are high powered cars and the transmission is simply not going to last 1,000,000 miles. Period. You see, over here, in this forum, we are not running 15 second cars.
Most here want stronger shifts. Your deliberate attempt at ignoring the end users complaints on shift quality is exactly indicative of what people complain about with Mercedes dealers. "Customer is wrong, dealer thinks they are always correct. " How do you know how the RP will test out as according to the one of their techs I spoke with last year they never submitted to Mercedes for testing as Mercedes charges 'ridiculous' fees. For someone to state people should not run a particular fluid because they know nothing about it is downright wrong.Should I not run certain premium fuels in my Mercedes because Mercedes has not tested them all either? Does the pump need to state 'Certified by Mercedes' before I decide to pump the gas?
I think my tribological CV likely exceeds yours. When you have actually spent some time on lubricant development with MB/AMG come back & talk.
The fact remains that RP has not achieved to get their product through the rigorous MB test regime - period!
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 05-27-2012 at 10:30 AM.
05-27-2012, 10:36 AM
#53
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05-27-2012, 10:51 AM
#54
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E 63S Wagon Renntech, E55 Renntech, SL65, SL 55 030, ML, bunch of old ones--they come, they go...
Couple little things...
1) in dealing with lots of older benzes and 722's of various designations, I did a flush once. Didn't work out well, and ultimately a tranny job. Ever since then, agree with drain only. 2) interesting post above regarding fuel. Yes, if you buy a new Benz, it's not going to be long before they ARE going to tell you what kind of fuel to use. BMW already has their list of gas to use, and avoid. Good friend bought a new S5 last week and was told to ABSOLUTELY avoid gasoline from BP and Amoco, and that they already know how those fuels show problems ( which is prolly BS, but might work to deny a warranty claim). Just wait till all the problems start to show up from ethanol, and the corresponding denial of warranty claims.
If you want to own/run a used performance car, these are just some of the perils that come with it. That's why the prices are what they are, and will continue to fall as age/miles rise.
If you want to own/run a used performance car, these are just some of the perils that come with it. That's why the prices are what they are, and will continue to fall as age/miles rise.
05-27-2012, 10:53 AM
#55
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Pearl - I am not disagreeing with the fact that certain oils may have firmer shifts, as I have never tested.
Glyn - Which oil company do you represent / work for and do you recommend any additives (e.g. BG) ? Also, you mentioned WIS method in changing the fluid - what is WIS method ?
Last edited by cij911; 05-27-2012 at 11:00 AM.
05-27-2012, 12:06 PM
#56
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E55 w/ goods, Z32 Project underway
Ah! Yes - the reaction of someone that has made a bad decision and now feels obliged to justify it.
I think my tribological CV likely exceeds yours. When you have actually spent some time on lubricant development with MB/AMG come back & talk.
The fact remains that RP has not achieved to get their product through the rigorous MB test regime - period!
I think my tribological CV likely exceeds yours. When you have actually spent some time on lubricant development with MB/AMG come back & talk.
The fact remains that RP has not achieved to get their product through the rigorous MB test regime - period!
Thanks for posting that, pretty much sums you up right there. 
You ignored, as usual, the basic argument, yet tried to impress with what???? Ignorance blurred with arrogance, or vice versa.
Last edited by pearlpower; 05-27-2012 at 12:15 PM.
05-27-2012, 12:13 PM
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OK, so MB says to now use 236.14 & RP clearly states that their ATF does NOT meet 236.14....Not sure what the argument is unless you feel you know more about oiling requirements for the MB transmission than MB engineers. When it comes to oil and viscosity recommendations, I NEVER deviate from the OEMs - the amount of time and money they invest cannot be replicated.
Pearl - I am not disagreeing with the fact that certain oils may have firmer shifts, as I have never tested.
Glyn - Which oil company do you represent / work for and do you recommend any additives (e.g. BG) ? Also, you mentioned WIS method in changing the fluid - what is WIS method ?
Pearl - I am not disagreeing with the fact that certain oils may have firmer shifts, as I have never tested.
Glyn - Which oil company do you represent / work for and do you recommend any additives (e.g. BG) ? Also, you mentioned WIS method in changing the fluid - what is WIS method ?
RP is the only fluid available that has the original viscosity that performed well in the 5sp trans. Yet we have someone here claiming to work for Mercedes of some sort and does testing stating not to use it because....well we do not know why as he refused to continually answer that. All we know is he has never tested the RP fluid yet tells people to not use it. The RP will not work for the 7sp trans because it is the original viscosity (thicker) and RP will not pay Mercedes just so they can stamp their product. Do you think Mercedes certification would be cheap? They don't need Mercedes blessing anyhow. Incidentally not one single failure has ever been reported running RP, yet numerous with Mercedes fluids.
Pretty much sums it up.
Last edited by pearlpower; 05-27-2012 at 12:28 PM.
05-27-2012, 12:16 PM
#58
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OK, so MB says to now use 236.14 & RP clearly states that their ATF does NOT meet 236.14....Not sure what the argument is unless you feel you know more about oiling requirements for the MB transmission than MB engineers. When it comes to oil and viscosity recommendations, I NEVER deviate from the OEMs - the amount of time and money they invest cannot be replicated.
Pearl - I am not disagreeing with the fact that certain oils may have firmer shifts, as I have never tested.
Glyn - Which oil company do you represent / work for and do you recommend any additives (e.g. BG) ? Also, you mentioned WIS method in changing the fluid - what is WIS method ?
Pearl - I am not disagreeing with the fact that certain oils may have firmer shifts, as I have never tested.
Glyn - Which oil company do you represent / work for and do you recommend any additives (e.g. BG) ? Also, you mentioned WIS method in changing the fluid - what is WIS method ?
I'm recently retired from a Supermajor Oilco - See my profile. I am a member of this forum in my private capacity. You will note from my posting history that I support no one oil company including the company I gave 39 years of my life to & still consult to.
I recommend no additives be added to any Benz approved lubricant. You will immediately take the product out of spec.
The only additives I recommend are: Techron for poor fuel and certain diesel flow improvers & biocides for use in exceptional circumstances & climatic conditions and approved by Benz.
The WIS is the Mercedes Benz global Workshop Information System. I have posted the links to the pdf's of the change & flush methods for 722.6 earlier in this thread.
05-27-2012, 01:11 PM
#59
Super Moderator
The issue of contention would be that Mercedes HAD to develop a new fluid for energy conversation purposes (thinner viscosity) for their new 7sp transmission. The new fluid was a failure as it ignored the performance attributes of the older 5sp transmission. Anyone that has gone from the older fluid to the new fluid can attest to this.
RP is the only fluid available that has the original viscosity that performed well in the 5sp trans. Yet we have someone here claiming to work for Mercedes of some sort and does testing stating not to use it because....well we do not know why as he refused to continually answer that. All we know is he has never tested the RP fluid yet tells people to not use it. The RP will not work for the 7sp trans because it is the original viscosity (thicker) and RP will not pay Mercedes just so they can stamp their product. Do you think Mercedes certification would be cheap? They don't need Mercedes blessing anyhow. Incidentally not one single failure has ever been reported running RP, yet numerous with Mercedes fluids.
Pretty much sums it up.
RP is the only fluid available that has the original viscosity that performed well in the 5sp trans. Yet we have someone here claiming to work for Mercedes of some sort and does testing stating not to use it because....well we do not know why as he refused to continually answer that. All we know is he has never tested the RP fluid yet tells people to not use it. The RP will not work for the 7sp trans because it is the original viscosity (thicker) and RP will not pay Mercedes just so they can stamp their product. Do you think Mercedes certification would be cheap? They don't need Mercedes blessing anyhow. Incidentally not one single failure has ever been reported running RP, yet numerous with Mercedes fluids.
Pretty much sums it up.
In the rest of the world where people actually service these transmissions regularly almost all 722.6 transmissions are now filled with the 236.14 fluid and it has been initial fill on all diesel models since 2007 that retained the 722.6 transmissions. All this with no ill effect at all. In fact a substantial reduction in warranty claims & extended life in service.
If you knew your transmissions you would realise that the 722.9 is a simplified development of the 722.6 with a Ravigneaux gear set to add the extra gears. Many parts are interchangeable.
By the way there is a long list of approved products still available meeting the older specs. Some are becoming difficult to source because they are obsolete but Fuchs etc still manufacture sell them. You don't have to buy non approved material.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 05-27-2012 at 01:14 PM.
05-27-2012, 01:23 PM
#60
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And this is nonesense.
In the rest of the world where people actually service these transmissions regularly almost all 722.6 transmissions are now filled with the 236.14 fluid and it has been initial fill on all diesel models since 2007 that retained the 722.6 transmissions. All this with no ill effect at all. In fact a substantial reduction in warranty claims & extended life in service.
If you knew your transmissions you would realise that the 722.9 is a simplified development of the 722.6 with a Ravigneaux gear set to add the extra gears. Many parts are interchangeable.
By the way there is a long list of approved products still available meeting the older specs. Some are becoming difficult to source because they are obsolete but Fuchs etc still manufacture sell them. You don't have to buy non approved material.
In the rest of the world where people actually service these transmissions regularly almost all 722.6 transmissions are now filled with the 236.14 fluid and it has been initial fill on all diesel models since 2007 that retained the 722.6 transmissions. All this with no ill effect at all. In fact a substantial reduction in warranty claims & extended life in service.
If you knew your transmissions you would realise that the 722.9 is a simplified development of the 722.6 with a Ravigneaux gear set to add the extra gears. Many parts are interchangeable.
By the way there is a long list of approved products still available meeting the older specs. Some are becoming difficult to source because they are obsolete but Fuchs etc still manufacture sell them. You don't have to buy non approved material.
I would even like to see this long list of yours as I'm always looking at options vs. the typical buy Mercedes or it will blow up corporate speak.Except the fluid because the valve body is not the same. It is a problematic valve body vs the older 5sp. Again, you avoid the simple truths and post misleading statements.
Last edited by pearlpower; 05-27-2012 at 04:13 PM.
05-27-2012, 04:10 PM
#61
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The valve body problems are TCU/Conductor plate related (Siemens/VDO)
05-27-2012, 04:12 PM
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E55 w/ goods, Z32 Project underway
Which are attached to the valve body in the transmission, again missing the entire point and again , LIST THE LONG LISTS OF FLUIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JHC, now I know how you have almost 13k posts, you post up nothing of relevance.
Last edited by pearlpower; 05-27-2012 at 04:15 PM.
05-27-2012, 06:23 PM
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Not just referring to this model/MB but in general terms. It happened to me years ago under the conditions I mentioned (higher mileage, prior over heat and hot running) after a trans flush car lost significant power and after lots of diagnostics, trial and error it was traced to the TC. Trans shop mentioned that they'd seen this same scenario before and car ran fine on burnt old trans fluid up until it was replaced.
Last edited by RJC; 05-27-2012 at 09:18 PM.
05-27-2012, 07:24 PM
#65
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There is no doubt that the MBUSA filled for life attitude has been the cause of a lot of problems in the US not seen in ROW with 39K miles 60K Km's services. Remember in ROW most Benz cars are sold with Mobilodrive (Motorplan) so they get all their services on MB's dollar. That transmission with old burnt fluid would have failed anyway.
We have examined many used fluid samples at 60,000 Kms & even in normal use in less powerful models than the AMG's the fluid is pretty stressed & oxidised.
Benz USA is considered a bit of a loose cannon in the Benz organisation. How Stuttgart ever allowed them to consider these things filled for life I will never know.
We have examined many used fluid samples at 60,000 Kms & even in normal use in less powerful models than the AMG's the fluid is pretty stressed & oxidised.
Benz USA is considered a bit of a loose cannon in the Benz organisation. How Stuttgart ever allowed them to consider these things filled for life I will never know.
02-22-2013, 01:11 AM
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2006 E55 AMG - Stock
Sorry to bring this back but it seems my tranny stopped working 6 days after service. Not sure any way to prove it. Car is stuck now. Revs in drive c, s and m. Awaiting independent look at it.
02-22-2013, 04:37 AM
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Since someone dragged this up, I'll add my opinion of RP. I've heard of at least 2 first hand, and a few more second hand stories of motors being lost shortly after a fill with RP. They were building a reputation for junk on a few boards last I checked. I wouldn't run the stuff at all. Just my .02
Oh and if you lose a tranny after a flush unless you had a ton of miles its debris in the valve body or the trans was already hurt.
Oh and if you lose a tranny after a flush unless you had a ton of miles its debris in the valve body or the trans was already hurt.
02-22-2013, 05:17 AM
#68
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+1, I ONLY use Mobil1, not because Mercedes says so, just because I like knowing a good trusted oil has been the ONLY oil my car has seen. Although the viscosity may have changed here and there, it has always been Mobil1 full synthetic. And to get back on topic, my trans has never been touched, as far as I am aware, I will have to check the service records. My trans is still hella strong though, so I don't know why they say, "CHANGE IT EVERY 30K MILES!". Like I said, I may be wrong, but I do know if it WAS done before I got the car, it would have been about 30,000 miles ago AT LEAST. I'll check, but I think I already know.
02-22-2013, 01:09 PM
#70
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Just curious, has anyone had or heard of a failure of a tranny because they NEVER changed the fluid? I have read many times how fairly soon AFTER either a flush or fluid change that a tranny failure occured... (not all times, but certainly many times).
02-22-2013, 04:21 PM
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2006 E55 AMG - Stock
Well, got the word from mechanic. Blown tranny is some fashion. not engaging and said broken parts inside.
Need new tranny, rebuilt, or another used one plus labor.
getting price now on tranny rebuild. used one is about 2300 plus install labor (maybe about 1k ??)
arghh. may tow it to dealer and get a warranteed c300 LOL
Thanks for any and all info.
Need new tranny, rebuilt, or another used one plus labor.
getting price now on tranny rebuild. used one is about 2300 plus install labor (maybe about 1k ??)
arghh. may tow it to dealer and get a warranteed c300 LOL
Thanks for any and all info.
02-24-2013, 12:55 PM
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07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
Have to ask, did you request a flush or did you ask for a filter and trans fluid change. This will be your point of argument or discussion, with the service manager or best with customer service at MB. Flushing under no circumstances is advisable especially with poorly trained jockeys that the service departments use. First ask for the guy who did the job and then ask him in front of the manager to show you his certification. Possibly he did not add enough fluid back or all the crap trapped in the old filter is now trapped in the internals. Good Luck
