WEISTEC: Setting the record straight
02-08-2013, 01:05 PM
#51
Former Vendor of MBWorld
In the years of business, we have never left a customer in the rain whether it was our fault or theirs. It is important to make a few things clear, and this is the intention of this message.
The tune was in fact edited. The tuner did run the engine lean, and add about 4-5 degrees of ignition advance. These are two major issues that can cause an engine failure.
We do in fact set fail safes in our tunes. The clutch assembly being removed does not mean we remove all fail safes. How do many OEM's such as Ford, GM, Audi, etc. do this? We have been running our M156 supercharger system with no clutch and no engine failures for the past few years. When intake air temperatures start to get hot, ignition timing is retarded. Not to mention fuel is then added as well. When global changes are being made to timing and fuel, the result can be catastrophic.
In terms of this particular car running very hot intake air temperatures, we are positive there were issues with the existing cooling system. One as an example was the fact that 12mm hose was ran from the trunk tank (that was not provided by us) to the supercharger system. This hose should be at least 19mm or 3/4". We assisted the owner and the shop throughout the re-installation of the lines, and we needed more information to understand if this was something that was an issue with our system, or the parts that were installed on the car.
Things like, please install the larger upper pulley on the car. (This car is ran in high elevation and the customer wanted to match the boost. We sent him a different pulley combo to do so.) Although the car might not make the same boost because of air density, it is still spinning faster than our test cars, and we wanted apples to apples comparison.
Buy a new IAT sensor and install it. They installed a used one.
We wanted to see if the two pumps (one in the trunk and one in front) were fighting each other. We asked how they were wired.
We also asked if the owner can run the car on the dyno once again, and perhaps put some ice in the tank. This gauges weather our intercooler system is actually transferring heat. If the ice were to stay cold, there might be an air bubble in the system.
NONE of these were done, for the exception of installed a used IAT sensor. We reached out here just like we always do. It is the customers choice weather they want to take the advice of the company who manufactured the product and has quite a bit of knowledge in this particular field.
We also want to state that the compressor and intercooler core used on the M113K system is the same exact part as the M156 system. In both applications, if all directions were followed we have never seen such high intake air temperatures, not even on a summer day in Dubai.
Weistec Engineering
The tune was in fact edited. The tuner did run the engine lean, and add about 4-5 degrees of ignition advance. These are two major issues that can cause an engine failure.
We do in fact set fail safes in our tunes. The clutch assembly being removed does not mean we remove all fail safes. How do many OEM's such as Ford, GM, Audi, etc. do this? We have been running our M156 supercharger system with no clutch and no engine failures for the past few years. When intake air temperatures start to get hot, ignition timing is retarded. Not to mention fuel is then added as well. When global changes are being made to timing and fuel, the result can be catastrophic.
In terms of this particular car running very hot intake air temperatures, we are positive there were issues with the existing cooling system. One as an example was the fact that 12mm hose was ran from the trunk tank (that was not provided by us) to the supercharger system. This hose should be at least 19mm or 3/4". We assisted the owner and the shop throughout the re-installation of the lines, and we needed more information to understand if this was something that was an issue with our system, or the parts that were installed on the car.
Things like, please install the larger upper pulley on the car. (This car is ran in high elevation and the customer wanted to match the boost. We sent him a different pulley combo to do so.) Although the car might not make the same boost because of air density, it is still spinning faster than our test cars, and we wanted apples to apples comparison.
Buy a new IAT sensor and install it. They installed a used one.
We wanted to see if the two pumps (one in the trunk and one in front) were fighting each other. We asked how they were wired.
We also asked if the owner can run the car on the dyno once again, and perhaps put some ice in the tank. This gauges weather our intercooler system is actually transferring heat. If the ice were to stay cold, there might be an air bubble in the system.
NONE of these were done, for the exception of installed a used IAT sensor. We reached out here just like we always do. It is the customers choice weather they want to take the advice of the company who manufactured the product and has quite a bit of knowledge in this particular field.
We also want to state that the compressor and intercooler core used on the M113K system is the same exact part as the M156 system. In both applications, if all directions were followed we have never seen such high intake air temperatures, not even on a summer day in Dubai.
Weistec Engineering
Last edited by Weistec; 02-08-2013 at 01:25 PM.
02-08-2013, 01:05 PM
#52
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'06 E55
My recommendation to AJM was the same as he said to me: keep it off the forums until you know what is wrong! People are going to do what people do and around here that seems to speculate and point fingers prematurely. When my engine blew, it took me over a month before we could tell what caused it. I had more fingers pointed in more directions, everything from the tune to the parts. When it turned out to be a clogged injector, that was that and everyone who had something to say was wrong. Nobody ever acknowledged that they were wrong, of course.
It takes time to figure out what went wrong. AJM assured me that he wanted to find out exactly what went wrong before going public to avoid exactly what is happening now.
Best of luck with the rebuild project and my offer for help still stands. I'm sure Weistec will work this miscommunication out with you and help you get back on the road. I think this kit is a quality piece and has potential for these cars.
It takes time to figure out what went wrong. AJM assured me that he wanted to find out exactly what went wrong before going public to avoid exactly what is happening now.
Best of luck with the rebuild project and my offer for help still stands. I'm sure Weistec will work this miscommunication out with you and help you get back on the road. I think this kit is a quality piece and has potential for these cars.
02-08-2013, 01:06 PM
#53
MBWorld Fanatic!
02-08-2013, 01:16 PM
#55
Super Member
185-190 deg of AIT won't kill the motor itself. On my turbo truck I had 188 deg AIT with 19 deg timing on 10 lbs of boost and never had a problem. I run 100 octane and my AFR is around 11.5 though. I have since got a bigger intercooler and got the AIT down to 150... My point is, I don't believe the AIT alone is what killed the motor.
02-08-2013, 01:17 PM
#56
MBWorld Fanatic!
Weistec, how do you know 4-5 degrees of timing was added to the tune?
02-08-2013, 01:21 PM
#58
MBWorld Fanatic!
185-190 deg of AIT won't kill the motor itself. On my turbo truck I had 188 deg AIT with 19 deg timing on 10 lbs of boost and never had a problem. I run 100 octane and my AFR is around 11.5 though. I have since got a bigger intercooler and got the AIT down to 150... My point is, I don't believe the AIT alone is what killed the motor.
02-08-2013, 01:22 PM
#59
SPONSOR
You said above (and many other times) that "you BOTH have blown engines". What you are insinuating is that the software (either by OE, Weistec, EC, Etc) is to blame for the motor failure. These types of slanderous comments need to stop. I WILL FILE A LAWSUIT against this forum and the people involved if these accusations continue.
I have been the only tuner on this forum to admit that I tuned a car that had motor failure. I'm upset that it happened and I wish there was something I could do, but the FACT is.....it wasn't software related.
Just for the record.... I have tuned one members car on this forum 3 times and all 3 times have ended in motor failure. The owner of this car is a friend, fellow car lover, and also someone that I buy parts from. The last time the motor went we were running a 10 AFR and near stock ignition...it happened the first pull on the dyno.
I have no problem with speculation and I'm even willing to help figure out the issue, but I will not tolerate someone pointing fingers at me or my company....
Thank you!
02-08-2013, 01:33 PM
#62
Super Member
"so then whenever anyone says that OE, or EC or weistec blew up their motor, they have to be afraid of a lawsuit?"
You are 100000% correct and if you don't realize this, you are playing with fire!
You are 100000% correct and if you don't realize this, you are playing with fire!
02-08-2013, 01:42 PM
#64
MBWorld Fanatic!
02-08-2013, 01:42 PM
#65
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2002 C32 AMG, 2013 GLK 350/4, 2015 E63S AMG Wagon
02-08-2013, 01:43 PM
#66
MBWorld Fanatic!
The problem is there are a lot more parts to the IC system then just the IC itself. Without us seeing a log how would we know that timing wasn't pulled in a acceptable manner?
02-08-2013, 01:49 PM
#69
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
so if you know 100% that it is the weistec intercooler then prove it
.... if not, it can be many other pieces of non-weistec hardware that cause iat to climb
02-08-2013, 01:53 PM
#71
MBWorld Fanatic!
mercedes factory hoses that were leaking could of caused this, mercedes factory ic pump (or aftermarket johnson or miezer pump), air bubbles in the lines from not being properly bleed, etc etc etc all of which are not weistec hardware...
so if you know 100% that it is the weistec intercooler then prove it.... if not, it can be many other pieces of non-weistec hardware that cause iat to climb
so if you know 100% that it is the weistec intercooler then prove it
.... if not, it can be many other pieces of non-weistec hardware that cause iat to climb
02-08-2013, 01:54 PM
#72
Senior Member
Thread Starter
In the years of business, we have never left a customer in the rain whether it was our fault or theirs. It is important to make a few things clear, and this is the intention of this message.
The tune was in fact edited. The tuner did run the engine lean, and add about 4-5 degrees of ignition advance. These are two major issues that can cause an engine failure.
We do in fact set fail safes in our tunes. The clutch assembly being removed does not mean we remove all fail safes. How do many OEM's such as Ford, GM, Audi, etc. do this? We have been running our M156 supercharger system with no clutch and no engine failures for the past few years. When intake air temperatures start to get hot, ignition timing is retarded. Not to mention fuel is
then added as well. When global changes are being made to timing and fuel, the result can be catastrophic.
In terms of this particular car running very hot intake air temperatures, we are positive there were issues with the existing cooling system. One as an example was the fact that 12mm hose was ran
from the trunk tank (that was not provided by us) to the supercharger system. This hose should be at least 19mm or 3/4". We assisted the owner and the shop throughout the re-installation of the lines, and we needed more information to understand if this was something that was an issue with our system, or the parts that were
installed on the car.
Things like, please install the larger upper pulley on the car. (This car is ran in high elevation and the customer wanted to match the boost. We sent him a different pulley combo to do so.) Although the car might not make the same boost because of air density, it is still spinning faster than our test cars, and we wanted apples to apples comparison.
Buy a new IAT sensor and install it. They installed a used one.
We wanted to see if the two pumps (one in the trunk and one in front) were fighting each other. We asked how they were wired.
We also asked if the owner can run the car on the dyno once again, and perhaps put some ice in the tank. This gauges weather our intercooler system is actually transferring heat. If the ice were to stay cold, there might be an air bubble in the system.
NONE of these were done, for the exception of installed a used IAT sensor. We reached out here just like we always do. It is the customers choice weather they want to take the advice of the company who manufactured the product
and has quite a bit of knowledge in this particular field.
We also want to state that the compressor and intercooler core used on the M113K system is the same exact part as the M156 system. In both applications, if all directions were followed we have never seen such high
intake air temperatures, not even on a summer day in Dubai.
Weistec Engineering
The tune was in fact edited. The tuner did run the engine lean, and add about 4-5 degrees of ignition advance. These are two major issues that can cause an engine failure.
We do in fact set fail safes in our tunes. The clutch assembly being removed does not mean we remove all fail safes. How do many OEM's such as Ford, GM, Audi, etc. do this? We have been running our M156 supercharger system with no clutch and no engine failures for the past few years. When intake air temperatures start to get hot, ignition timing is retarded. Not to mention fuel is
then added as well. When global changes are being made to timing and fuel, the result can be catastrophic.
In terms of this particular car running very hot intake air temperatures, we are positive there were issues with the existing cooling system. One as an example was the fact that 12mm hose was ran
from the trunk tank (that was not provided by us) to the supercharger system. This hose should be at least 19mm or 3/4". We assisted the owner and the shop throughout the re-installation of the lines, and we needed more information to understand if this was something that was an issue with our system, or the parts that were
installed on the car.
Things like, please install the larger upper pulley on the car. (This car is ran in high elevation and the customer wanted to match the boost. We sent him a different pulley combo to do so.) Although the car might not make the same boost because of air density, it is still spinning faster than our test cars, and we wanted apples to apples comparison.
Buy a new IAT sensor and install it. They installed a used one.
We wanted to see if the two pumps (one in the trunk and one in front) were fighting each other. We asked how they were wired.
We also asked if the owner can run the car on the dyno once again, and perhaps put some ice in the tank. This gauges weather our intercooler system is actually transferring heat. If the ice were to stay cold, there might be an air bubble in the system.
NONE of these were done, for the exception of installed a used IAT sensor. We reached out here just like we always do. It is the customers choice weather they want to take the advice of the company who manufactured the product
and has quite a bit of knowledge in this particular field.
We also want to state that the compressor and intercooler core used on the M113K system is the same exact part as the M156 system. In both applications, if all directions were followed we have never seen such high
intake air temperatures, not even on a summer day in Dubai.
Weistec Engineering
Some of what is recorded here is accurate, some not. As I indicated in the opening thread, I'll post two further threads, one articulating a performance review and one dealing with the engine failure. I'll give you guys as much info as possible in both so that you can form your own view about both matters.
I don't know what caused the engine failure. I've never said to anyone it was definitely linked to the Weistec charger. There are certainly some issues which I find perplexing. I've posed questions to Weistec about these issues on various occasions (in a bid to acquire an understanding of what
happened here) and these have not elicited any response. More later. All I will say for now is that the allegation that the tune was altered is hotly disputed.
I'll post when I get a gap. No point providing an incomplete picture so I must find the time to do it properly.
This thread however concerns the false accusations and the decision by Weistec to extracate itself from the discussions on the basis of these trumped up charges. I haven't read the post under reply closely but at a quick glance, I didn't see a single word covering the thread topic.
Last edited by ajm55; 02-08-2013 at 01:57 PM.
02-08-2013, 02:02 PM
#73
MBWorld Fanatic!
Why are you so much into protecting weistec when now they come out and say that the tune was modified when Ajm said that it was NOT are you guys serious?? Ajm said that if weistec said that it would be basically putting down his integrity because he knows it was NOT touched but you guys wanna protect weistec when Ajm is the victim and weistec is slithering out of this
02-08-2013, 02:02 PM
#74
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Why are you so much into protecting weistec when now they come out and say that the tune was modified when Ajm said that it was NOT are you guys serious?? Ajm said that if weistec said that it would be basically putting down his integrity because he knows it was NOT touched but you guys wanna protect weistec when Ajm is the victim and weistec is slithering out of this
even the OP is NOT saying its weistec's fault but somehow you know more then the OP about his own car situation and cause of failure?
