PACougar

Where were you packing the ice into?

dllhg

That isnt how it worked on my GTO. Plenty of cold air with AC on. Maybe these cars are different wouldnt think so but they could be.

03'55AMG

Dllhg, are you going to be the guinea pig for this mod? If it works, I wonder how low we could get the IATs doing this AND an iced trunk tank.. Is too cold of air possible? I know that putting hot on cold and vice versa can warp/crack/break things, but would that be the case here?

PACougar

I guess I'm confused, if you have your AC air being blown through a hot heater core wouldn't the air be heated before it comes into the cabin space.

PACougar

No, you don't have to worry about too cold of air. At the track with a ice filled tank I start the runs between 34*-36* and I'm hardly the only one doing it.

dllhg

No it doesnt heat the air when you set it to cold with AC on. Atleast not on my GTO and some other platforms that have done this mod.

Plan to take a closer look at mine fairly soon.

PACougar

I guess I don't understand how it couldn't heat the air. The only way to cool the water going through the heater core with the AC air is to blow it through the heater core, thus transferring heat into the air and out of the water. So you have cold air go in and warmer air come out, which goes into the cab. I'm not trying to argue about this, I just don't see how it can work as described and not heat up the AC air going into the cab. Heat transfer has to occur somewhere for it to work.

dllhg

This might help some. From a thread I had going on LS1GTO


Air comes across the Evaporator first, all the time. Then if you have it set to heat, the doors open allowing a path across the heater core. This is done so that In defrost mode the compressor is on dehumidfying the air coming across the evaporator.

Thread
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448901

PACougar

Per a quote from the first post in that thread.

"Turn the AC on and put the temp on full high and it will cool the air really cold and then blow it though the trucks heater core cooling the water in it to BELOW ambient. You just need to put a catch can on the HVAC drain to catch the drips from running the AC if your at the track."

So it would indeed heat the cold air coming into the cabin through the heater core.

dllhg

No it doesnt. When you turn the system on you have the AC on and heat turned up. THe water doesnt get hot enough to heat your cabin at all. You are no longer running engine water through it only the IC water. Turnt he temp down and voila you have normal ice cold air. I promise you ! I had this setup on my car for a long time and used the AC a lot.

PACougar

Don't get me wrong, I'm 100 percent sure it work for you with your Maggie. In the summer depending on where you live the water in the IC cicuit on these cars is going to be 130F-140F after a pull, I don't see how cooling that hot of water wouldn't be significantly heater the air up. Only one way to find out. Also, I'm saying the AC temps would suffer from this, it's not like you'd end up with a normal cars heater turned up on high.

hpV12

What about the hp loss from running your AC all the time?

PACougar

AC shuts off under high load conditions. So when you go wot you''d have no power loss.

mphox

...and no cooling to liquid going through heater core to HE during WOT when IAT cooling is needed most.

PACougar

Well, that is true but the idea is you've already cooled all of the water in the system so when you go wot you have lots of cold water going through the IC before it all gets heated back up. Then between runs it cools the water back down. It's not like the system has such a small volume that you have to cool the water down instantly after it come out of the IC. Also the larger the system is I.E. trunk tank or engine bay tank, the more runs you can make or longer the run can be without needing to shut it down and wait for the water to cool again. The Killer Chiller work the same way it just uses refrigerant to directly cool the water and I can tell you it is very effective.

dllhg

Correct. As I staed before I hot lapped my car 4-5 runs in the last 15 minutes with this mod and never got heat soaked at all. My MPH never dropped at all. My times were very very consistent within 1/10th and less than 1 MPH too. In fact one of my middle runs was my highest trap. Maggie holds around one gallon I think. Water in my IC was always between 70 degrees and maxed out at around 85 degrees. Not enough to give you a heater at all and the way this is run your AC doesnt work quite as well but still works just fine. I doubt these cars get the water temps up over 130 degrees. That seems awfully high. I did see mine get to 110 before the mod. I guess if you beat on it enough it could go that high.

PACougar

Try swapping pulley's, you'll find out how much eat these IC circuit really make. Our cars are practically famous for there heat soaking abilities. Once you start modding your car you'll find out what I'm talking about. With the stock system in the summer and a pulley don't be surprised to 130*+ water in there.

dllhg

Yeah the maggie 112 on the GTO is very well known for this as well. Mod still worked very well on it.

I am going to go Killer Chiller I think anyway. Dont want to have to mess with it all the time.

PACougar

Good choice, you can't beat the KC. In the summer I see 20*-30* below ambient. Throw a trunk tank in and you'll be in great shape. Where you live you can get rid of your HE altogether.

dllhg

Nice, I didnt even catch you were fairly local and you had a KC. Have you tried it without the trunk tank ? Was probably going to try it without at first and see how it does.

Exotic-metal55

My heater and AC always stay un-molested! With a boosted engine, NO AC or heater core can keep up with the heat. Have to use purpose made heat exchangers, intercoolers, meth and real hard to beat a trunk tank full of ice for the track. I heard the Mustang guys gave up on killer chiller years ago?

Nice to see creative ideas though. No idea is a bad idea, as we say in the think tank, they just lead to new ideas.

dllhg

Hmm, did you read everything posted . From what you posted it doesnt sound like you really understand how this is working. you are not using the heater core to cool things down. By routing it this way it simply allows the water to be cooler with the AC. Cobra, GT500 and boosted Camaros LOVE this mod. Not sure if you saw my earlier post about it completely removing heatsoak from my Maggie 112 GTO which have horrible heatsoak. If 5 hot laps dont show this I dont know what will. The time before I didnt have the mod I used 20 lbs of ice to run . Ice melted and my water temps went right back up after every pass. Usually by the time I was ready to stage the temps would go back up a bit. My times were no where near as consistent with ice unless I waited a good 30-40 in between runs .. what a PITA. Spent 30 bux and 30 min of my time and I ran as much as I wanted. Some runs with only 3 minutes between and my water was still cooler.

Heat exchangers and intercoolers arent going to give you 20-30 below ambient temps. These dedicated units make the water run in the mid to even low 40s . Yes Ice will, but for DD that doesnt work at all so it is for track only and even then it is a pain and works no better. The KC and a rear tank would probably be the very best setup. Never been a fan of meth on a supercharger personally/.

E55Greasemonkey

Did your overall ET and MPH improve with this setup, or was it more for consistency in power output?

PACougar

I never ran it without the trunk tank, but I can tell you even with a 5 gallon tank you can eventually heat up the water a bit. If you don't want to put one in your trunk I would at least do a engine bay tank.. Plus if you're going to track the car at all nothing beats ice!

dllhg

I went from a 2.7 to a 2.6 pulley at the same time so yes they did improve. Main thing was I ran VERY consistent times the two times I went out with this mod. I think I made 12 passes last time out within 3 hours. Track really cleared out at the end so I said screw it and started hotlapping. 4 passes in 15 minutes and my MPH never went down not at all.

Previously I brought tons of ice, an ice chest and was busdy putting ice in my IC trying to get my times up. First run I made with no ice and was trapping like 113 MPH LEt it cool down for 30-40 min and added some ice. Next run I trapped 116 (less boost back then). Can you say heatsoak ? Would make another run with less cool down time and little less ice then it would drop by 1-2 MPH. Went back and forth all night and I made 10 passes that night. So I added boost and added more heat and ran the same times all night long with the mod. Works very well. Again not sure if it works on these cars though. I am getting a Killer Chiller and be done with it. It will work even better then the heater core mod I did so its a home run. No upgrading HE, might not add a tank in rear, no messing with ice at the track.... no more heat soak ...... I really dont see why this is the first mod people recomend.