Weistec CLK55
07-03-2013, 04:27 PM
#176
Former Vendor of MBWorld
I think it is time we intervene with this thread. There is a lot of dishonest and incorrect information here that needs to be straightened out. This type of dishonest and incorrect information can and will cause us harm and this is why it is necessary that we step in. The information below is all via text communication (actually the only form of communication until we landed in Maryland to commence work) and none of this is made up or altered in any way.
On January 8th, 2012 Ahmad contacted Weistec via text message in regards to the M113K supercharger system and a "hook-up" pricing to rep Weistec. We spoke in detail about the differences of the M113 and M113K and how our design was intended to work only with the M113K. It was clear to Ahmad that this was not a "bolt-on" system and many parts (specifically the belt drive system and bypass valve) had to be designed to work properly with his particular car.
Between January 8th, 2012 and April 20th, 2012 we went back and forth via text about pricing, timelines, tuning, and cost. We illustrated an interest of giving him a better than retail deal on the supercharger system in return for using the product on his car and "repping" our name, when the supercharger system was complete and ready to be sold.
On April 24th, 2012 Ahmad asked again when the system will be ready. Our reply was that we were still in the design phase. He asked if the price for the Non compressor version will be cheaper, and he asked if we need a test car for this particular product. We said yes we can use your car as a test car, and we will give you a good deal in return. However, the car needs to be at our facility.
This was the first time this was brought up and it is key to the complaints. Ahmad's reply was that it would cost him $2,500 and if we made it worth his time, he would send it.
Because we were not even close to installing on a car, we did not have interest in this quite yet. We didn't have a finished product. Ahmad asks us multiple times to ship the car, but the answer was no different. We replied on May 12th, 2012 articulating that we were not ready to take his (or any) car yet, and that we still needed a few months.
On June 15th, 2012 we received a message from Ahmad stating "race gas was a bad idea" and a picture of a broken connecting rod in his engine. With the downtime the car had, he started to build up the drive-train and between this time and August of 2012 he sold his old Kleemann supercharger system to a fellow member with a W209 CLK and sent multiple drive-train pictures with his new axles and diff.
On October 5th, 2012 Ahmad asks for an update. We reply with a quick text stating that we are testing on the M113K car and it is a work in progress.
From here to March 15th, 2013 we had no contact. Contact at this point was Ahmad letting me know Gadget just went 10.70's at MIR. Based on the text message he sent and him witnessing a working product it was his choice to swap all parts over to the M113K belt drive. He states that he will bolt on the AMG SC up if we can't do the supercharger system for a certain price.
Because the car was completely converted to a M113K from an M113, we knew the hardware was now compatible so we agreed to sell a system to him. It was during this time on March 16th, 2013 that we talked in detail about tuning and fueling. We replied in regards to the fueling and we also stated that the tune is free, however you need to plan on us coming out for a custom tune. Whatever cost the trip will incur please help us out on. He stated that he can raise some money by doing custom dyno tunes for other Mercedes owners and that this would "offset" the price. This trip was never intended to be free. We never mentioned anything because we wanted to get this car done and running just as bad as Ahmad did.
On March 19th, 2013 he wire transferred money and we sent a kit with the understanding that the bypass valve was designed but not yet manufactured. By March 31st, 2013 he was still working on other parts of the car while we were manufacturing the bypass valve. On April 10th, 2013 the bypass was finished and sent off (via UPS Overnight) for installation, along with a base file for the ECU.
Between April 10th, 2013 and June 7th, 2013 we went back and forth with tuning and the headaches incurred with that. It was obvious that remote tuning would not be an effective method to get a car like this up and running. We traveled to Maryland on our dime to fix this car.
We took a redeye flight to give ourselves 3 full days (and 4 nights explained later) to work on the car. Before flying out we asked Ahmad specifically if the car is sound on a hardware standpoint. The answer was yes. We arrive to Ahmad's house and we start immediately. A few flashes in the car and it was running a lot better immediately. We drove the car to his friends house to double check the car and to work on a few things. Our plan was to hit the dyno right away and get the car running strong. This plan was however derailed when we found multiple issues with the car. First, the intake air temp sensor needed to be moved to the manifold and not in the intake pipe, second, the car needed a boost gauge, and third the car had bad MAF wires that were repaired.
We then headed off to the dyno. We spend multiple hours on the car, and we noticed that the car was making too much power for the stock size MAF housing. Nicely enough, the shop we were at had a CNC machine and fabbed up a MAF. At this time we also noticed a radiator house rubbing the power-steering pulley. We spent time modifying the core support to fix this issue. This took about 3-4 hours of our precious dyno time. From there we tuned for about an hour but the shop owner had to close his doors at 9 PM. We headed back to the hotel to wake up again in the morning to get started. During this time the car was removed from the dyno because the shop had to tune another car, and the intercooler hose was torn off the car. We spent time fixing this which again was precious time away from the dyno.
While fixing this we must have flashed the ECU about 30 times trying to understand why the car was acting up. With no real result from tuning we resorted to checking the hardware installation. We found a massive leak on a few of the injector o-rings causing the car to have a vacuum leak, hence throwing off any tuning headway we might of had. This leak was an installation error. We drove to multiple stores to find o-rings and we finally got the car reassembled after about 4 hours of work. We had to start from scratch.
By this time it was about 5 PM on Saturday and we didn't have much time left. We started tuning for about an hour until the shop owner had to leave for the day. We still didn't give up. We tuned till about 1 AM that night in the dark outside in humid and wet conditions because it meant a lot for us to get this car running.
To recap this trip, we only had about 2 hours of real dyno time.
At around 1 AM we sat down at a local restauant and discussed how we weren't giving up. We also discussed what the faster route would be to get this car running. We talked in detail about either sending the car to us to get dialed in or the opportunity for Ahmad to swap complete ECU and harness from an E55. He later explained how the second of the two options would be easier, however we told him it is completely custom and will once again be a one off setup.
We apologize for this long and exhausting write up but this is just how it needs to be. We still intend on working with Ahmad and we are still going back and forth with tunes, but this is just a matter of the truth, and this is just a matter of portraying that we are very truthful and honest in our business.
At this point if Ahmad feels like he needs to cut ties we are fully prepaired and willing to buy the supercharger system back from him at the price he purchased it for.
Weistec Engineering
On January 8th, 2012 Ahmad contacted Weistec via text message in regards to the M113K supercharger system and a "hook-up" pricing to rep Weistec. We spoke in detail about the differences of the M113 and M113K and how our design was intended to work only with the M113K. It was clear to Ahmad that this was not a "bolt-on" system and many parts (specifically the belt drive system and bypass valve) had to be designed to work properly with his particular car.
Between January 8th, 2012 and April 20th, 2012 we went back and forth via text about pricing, timelines, tuning, and cost. We illustrated an interest of giving him a better than retail deal on the supercharger system in return for using the product on his car and "repping" our name, when the supercharger system was complete and ready to be sold.
On April 24th, 2012 Ahmad asked again when the system will be ready. Our reply was that we were still in the design phase. He asked if the price for the Non compressor version will be cheaper, and he asked if we need a test car for this particular product. We said yes we can use your car as a test car, and we will give you a good deal in return. However, the car needs to be at our facility.
This was the first time this was brought up and it is key to the complaints. Ahmad's reply was that it would cost him $2,500 and if we made it worth his time, he would send it.
Because we were not even close to installing on a car, we did not have interest in this quite yet. We didn't have a finished product. Ahmad asks us multiple times to ship the car, but the answer was no different. We replied on May 12th, 2012 articulating that we were not ready to take his (or any) car yet, and that we still needed a few months.
On June 15th, 2012 we received a message from Ahmad stating "race gas was a bad idea" and a picture of a broken connecting rod in his engine. With the downtime the car had, he started to build up the drive-train and between this time and August of 2012 he sold his old Kleemann supercharger system to a fellow member with a W209 CLK and sent multiple drive-train pictures with his new axles and diff.
On October 5th, 2012 Ahmad asks for an update. We reply with a quick text stating that we are testing on the M113K car and it is a work in progress.
From here to March 15th, 2013 we had no contact. Contact at this point was Ahmad letting me know Gadget just went 10.70's at MIR. Based on the text message he sent and him witnessing a working product it was his choice to swap all parts over to the M113K belt drive. He states that he will bolt on the AMG SC up if we can't do the supercharger system for a certain price.
Because the car was completely converted to a M113K from an M113, we knew the hardware was now compatible so we agreed to sell a system to him. It was during this time on March 16th, 2013 that we talked in detail about tuning and fueling. We replied in regards to the fueling and we also stated that the tune is free, however you need to plan on us coming out for a custom tune. Whatever cost the trip will incur please help us out on. He stated that he can raise some money by doing custom dyno tunes for other Mercedes owners and that this would "offset" the price. This trip was never intended to be free. We never mentioned anything because we wanted to get this car done and running just as bad as Ahmad did.
On March 19th, 2013 he wire transferred money and we sent a kit with the understanding that the bypass valve was designed but not yet manufactured. By March 31st, 2013 he was still working on other parts of the car while we were manufacturing the bypass valve. On April 10th, 2013 the bypass was finished and sent off (via UPS Overnight) for installation, along with a base file for the ECU.
Between April 10th, 2013 and June 7th, 2013 we went back and forth with tuning and the headaches incurred with that. It was obvious that remote tuning would not be an effective method to get a car like this up and running. We traveled to Maryland on our dime to fix this car.
We took a redeye flight to give ourselves 3 full days (and 4 nights explained later) to work on the car. Before flying out we asked Ahmad specifically if the car is sound on a hardware standpoint. The answer was yes. We arrive to Ahmad's house and we start immediately. A few flashes in the car and it was running a lot better immediately. We drove the car to his friends house to double check the car and to work on a few things. Our plan was to hit the dyno right away and get the car running strong. This plan was however derailed when we found multiple issues with the car. First, the intake air temp sensor needed to be moved to the manifold and not in the intake pipe, second, the car needed a boost gauge, and third the car had bad MAF wires that were repaired.
We then headed off to the dyno. We spend multiple hours on the car, and we noticed that the car was making too much power for the stock size MAF housing. Nicely enough, the shop we were at had a CNC machine and fabbed up a MAF. At this time we also noticed a radiator house rubbing the power-steering pulley. We spent time modifying the core support to fix this issue. This took about 3-4 hours of our precious dyno time. From there we tuned for about an hour but the shop owner had to close his doors at 9 PM. We headed back to the hotel to wake up again in the morning to get started. During this time the car was removed from the dyno because the shop had to tune another car, and the intercooler hose was torn off the car. We spent time fixing this which again was precious time away from the dyno.
While fixing this we must have flashed the ECU about 30 times trying to understand why the car was acting up. With no real result from tuning we resorted to checking the hardware installation. We found a massive leak on a few of the injector o-rings causing the car to have a vacuum leak, hence throwing off any tuning headway we might of had. This leak was an installation error. We drove to multiple stores to find o-rings and we finally got the car reassembled after about 4 hours of work. We had to start from scratch.
By this time it was about 5 PM on Saturday and we didn't have much time left. We started tuning for about an hour until the shop owner had to leave for the day. We still didn't give up. We tuned till about 1 AM that night in the dark outside in humid and wet conditions because it meant a lot for us to get this car running.
To recap this trip, we only had about 2 hours of real dyno time.
At around 1 AM we sat down at a local restauant and discussed how we weren't giving up. We also discussed what the faster route would be to get this car running. We talked in detail about either sending the car to us to get dialed in or the opportunity for Ahmad to swap complete ECU and harness from an E55. He later explained how the second of the two options would be easier, however we told him it is completely custom and will once again be a one off setup.
We apologize for this long and exhausting write up but this is just how it needs to be. We still intend on working with Ahmad and we are still going back and forth with tunes, but this is just a matter of the truth, and this is just a matter of portraying that we are very truthful and honest in our business.
At this point if Ahmad feels like he needs to cut ties we are fully prepaired and willing to buy the supercharger system back from him at the price he purchased it for.
Weistec Engineering
Last edited by Weistec; 07-03-2013 at 04:47 PM.
07-03-2013, 05:30 PM
#177
MBWorld Fanatic!
I think it is time we intervene with this thread. There is a lot of dishonest and incorrect information here that needs to be straightened out. This type of dishonest and incorrect information can and will cause us harm and this is why it is necessary that we step in. The information below is all via text communication (actually the only form of communication until we landed in Maryland to commence work) and none of this is made up or altered in any way.
On January 8th, 2012 Ahmad contacted Weistec via text message in regards to the M113K supercharger system and a "hook-up" pricing to rep Weistec. We spoke in detail about the differences of the M113 and M113K and how our design was intended to work only with the M113K. It was clear to Ahmad that this was not a "bolt-on" system and many parts (specifically the belt drive system and bypass valve) had to be designed to work properly with his particular car.
Between January 8th, 2012 and April 20th, 2012 we went back and forth via text about pricing, timelines, tuning, and cost. We illustrated an interest of giving him a better than retail deal on the supercharger system in return for using the product on his car and "repping" our name, when the supercharger system was complete and ready to be sold.
On April 24th, 2012 Ahmad asked again when the system will be ready. Our reply was that we were still in the design phase. He asked if the price for the Non compressor version will be cheaper, and he asked if we need a test car for this particular product. We said yes we can use your car as a test car, and we will give you a good deal in return. However, the car needs to be at our facility.
This was the first time this was brought up and it is key to the complaints. Ahmad's reply was that it would cost him $2,500 and if we made it worth his time, he would send it.
Because we were not even close to installing on a car, we did not have interest in this quite yet. We didn't have a finished product. Ahmad asks us multiple times to ship the car, but the answer was no different. We replied on May 12th, 2012 articulating that we were not ready to take his (or any) car yet, and that we still needed a few months.
On June 15th, 2012 we received a message from Ahmad stating "race gas was a bad idea" and a picture of a broken connecting rod in his engine. With the downtime the car had, he started to build up the drive-train and between this time and August of 2012 he sold his old Kleemann supercharger system to a fellow member with a W209 CLK and sent multiple drive-train pictures with his new axles and diff.
On October 5th, 2012 Ahmad asks for an update. We reply with a quick text stating that we are testing on the M113K car and it is a work in progress.
From here to March 15th, 2013 we had no contact. Contact at this point was Ahmad letting me know Gadget just went 10.70's at MIR. Based on the text message he sent and him witnessing a working product it was his choice to swap all parts over to the M113K belt drive. He states that he will bolt on the AMG SC up if we can't do the supercharger system for a certain price.
Because the car was completely converted to a M113K from an M113, we knew the hardware was now compatible so we agreed to sell a system to him. It was during this time on March 16th, 2013 that we talked in detail about tuning and fueling. We replied in regards to the fueling and we also stated that the tune is free, however you need to plan on us coming out for a custom tune. Whatever cost the trip will incur please help us out on. He stated that he can raise some money by doing custom dyno tunes for other Mercedes owners and that this would "offset" the price. This trip was never intended to be free. We never mentioned anything because we wanted to get this car done and running just as bad as Ahmad did.
On March 19th, 2013 he wire transferred money and we sent a kit with the understanding that the bypass valve was designed but not yet manufactured. By March 31st, 2013 he was still working on other parts of the car while we were manufacturing the bypass valve. On April 10th, 2013 the bypass was finished and sent off (via UPS Overnight) for installation, along with a base file for the ECU.
Between April 10th, 2013 and June 7th, 2013 we went back and forth with tuning and the headaches incurred with that. It was obvious that remote tuning would not be an effective method to get a car like this up and running. We traveled to Maryland on our dime to fix this car.
We took a redeye flight to give ourselves 3 full days (and 4 nights explained later) to work on the car. Before flying out we asked Ahmad specifically if the car is sound on a hardware standpoint. The answer was yes. We arrive to Ahmad's house and we start immediately. A few flashes in the car and it was running a lot better immediately. We drove the car to his friends house to double check the car and to work on a few things. Our plan was to hit the dyno right away and get the car running strong. This plan was however derailed when we found multiple issues with the car. First, the intake air temp sensor needed to be moved to the manifold and not in the intake pipe, second, the car needed a boost gauge, and third the car had bad MAF wires that were repaired.
We then headed off to the dyno. We spend multiple hours on the car, and we noticed that the car was making too much power for the stock size MAF housing. Nicely enough, the shop we were at had a CNC machine and fabbed up a MAF. At this time we also noticed a radiator house rubbing the power-steering pulley. We spent time modifying the core support to fix this issue. This took about 3-4 hours of our precious dyno time. From there we tuned for about an hour but the shop owner had to close his doors at 9 PM. We headed back to the hotel to wake up again in the morning to get started. During this time the car was removed from the dyno because the shop had to tune another car, and the intercooler hose was torn off the car. We spent time fixing this which again was precious time away from the dyno.
While fixing this we must have flashed the ECU about 30 times trying to understand why the car was acting up. With no real result from tuning we resorted to checking the hardware installation. We found a massive leak on a few of the injector o-rings causing the car to have a vacuum leak, hence throwing off any tuning headway we might of had. This leak was an installation error. We drove to multiple stores to find o-rings and we finally got the car reassembled after about 4 hours of work. We had to start from scratch.
By this time it was about 5 PM on Saturday and we didn't have much time left. We started tuning for about an hour until the shop owner had to leave for the day. We still didn't give up. We tuned till about 1 AM that night in the dark outside in humid and wet conditions because it meant a lot for us to get this car running.
To recap this trip, we only had about 2 hours of real dyno time.
At around 1 AM we sat down at a local restauant and discussed how we weren't giving up. We also discussed what the faster route would be to get this car running. We talked in detail about either sending the car to us to get dialed in or the opportunity for Ahmad to swap complete ECU and harness from an E55. He later explained how the second of the two options would be easier, however we told him it is completely custom and will once again be a one off setup.
We apologize for this long and exhausting write up but this is just how it needs to be. We still intend on working with Ahmad and we are still going back and forth with tunes, but this is just a matter of the truth, and this is just a matter of portraying that we are very truthful and honest in our business.
At this point if Ahmad feels like he needs to cut ties we are fully prepaired and willing to buy the supercharger system back from him at the price he purchased it for.
Weistec Engineering
On January 8th, 2012 Ahmad contacted Weistec via text message in regards to the M113K supercharger system and a "hook-up" pricing to rep Weistec. We spoke in detail about the differences of the M113 and M113K and how our design was intended to work only with the M113K. It was clear to Ahmad that this was not a "bolt-on" system and many parts (specifically the belt drive system and bypass valve) had to be designed to work properly with his particular car.
Between January 8th, 2012 and April 20th, 2012 we went back and forth via text about pricing, timelines, tuning, and cost. We illustrated an interest of giving him a better than retail deal on the supercharger system in return for using the product on his car and "repping" our name, when the supercharger system was complete and ready to be sold.
On April 24th, 2012 Ahmad asked again when the system will be ready. Our reply was that we were still in the design phase. He asked if the price for the Non compressor version will be cheaper, and he asked if we need a test car for this particular product. We said yes we can use your car as a test car, and we will give you a good deal in return. However, the car needs to be at our facility.
This was the first time this was brought up and it is key to the complaints. Ahmad's reply was that it would cost him $2,500 and if we made it worth his time, he would send it.
Because we were not even close to installing on a car, we did not have interest in this quite yet. We didn't have a finished product. Ahmad asks us multiple times to ship the car, but the answer was no different. We replied on May 12th, 2012 articulating that we were not ready to take his (or any) car yet, and that we still needed a few months.
On June 15th, 2012 we received a message from Ahmad stating "race gas was a bad idea" and a picture of a broken connecting rod in his engine. With the downtime the car had, he started to build up the drive-train and between this time and August of 2012 he sold his old Kleemann supercharger system to a fellow member with a W209 CLK and sent multiple drive-train pictures with his new axles and diff.
On October 5th, 2012 Ahmad asks for an update. We reply with a quick text stating that we are testing on the M113K car and it is a work in progress.
From here to March 15th, 2013 we had no contact. Contact at this point was Ahmad letting me know Gadget just went 10.70's at MIR. Based on the text message he sent and him witnessing a working product it was his choice to swap all parts over to the M113K belt drive. He states that he will bolt on the AMG SC up if we can't do the supercharger system for a certain price.
Because the car was completely converted to a M113K from an M113, we knew the hardware was now compatible so we agreed to sell a system to him. It was during this time on March 16th, 2013 that we talked in detail about tuning and fueling. We replied in regards to the fueling and we also stated that the tune is free, however you need to plan on us coming out for a custom tune. Whatever cost the trip will incur please help us out on. He stated that he can raise some money by doing custom dyno tunes for other Mercedes owners and that this would "offset" the price. This trip was never intended to be free. We never mentioned anything because we wanted to get this car done and running just as bad as Ahmad did.
On March 19th, 2013 he wire transferred money and we sent a kit with the understanding that the bypass valve was designed but not yet manufactured. By March 31st, 2013 he was still working on other parts of the car while we were manufacturing the bypass valve. On April 10th, 2013 the bypass was finished and sent off (via UPS Overnight) for installation, along with a base file for the ECU.
Between April 10th, 2013 and June 7th, 2013 we went back and forth with tuning and the headaches incurred with that. It was obvious that remote tuning would not be an effective method to get a car like this up and running. We traveled to Maryland on our dime to fix this car.
We took a redeye flight to give ourselves 3 full days (and 4 nights explained later) to work on the car. Before flying out we asked Ahmad specifically if the car is sound on a hardware standpoint. The answer was yes. We arrive to Ahmad's house and we start immediately. A few flashes in the car and it was running a lot better immediately. We drove the car to his friends house to double check the car and to work on a few things. Our plan was to hit the dyno right away and get the car running strong. This plan was however derailed when we found multiple issues with the car. First, the intake air temp sensor needed to be moved to the manifold and not in the intake pipe, second, the car needed a boost gauge, and third the car had bad MAF wires that were repaired.
We then headed off to the dyno. We spend multiple hours on the car, and we noticed that the car was making too much power for the stock size MAF housing. Nicely enough, the shop we were at had a CNC machine and fabbed up a MAF. At this time we also noticed a radiator house rubbing the power-steering pulley. We spent time modifying the core support to fix this issue. This took about 3-4 hours of our precious dyno time. From there we tuned for about an hour but the shop owner had to close his doors at 9 PM. We headed back to the hotel to wake up again in the morning to get started. During this time the car was removed from the dyno because the shop had to tune another car, and the intercooler hose was torn off the car. We spent time fixing this which again was precious time away from the dyno.
While fixing this we must have flashed the ECU about 30 times trying to understand why the car was acting up. With no real result from tuning we resorted to checking the hardware installation. We found a massive leak on a few of the injector o-rings causing the car to have a vacuum leak, hence throwing off any tuning headway we might of had. This leak was an installation error. We drove to multiple stores to find o-rings and we finally got the car reassembled after about 4 hours of work. We had to start from scratch.
By this time it was about 5 PM on Saturday and we didn't have much time left. We started tuning for about an hour until the shop owner had to leave for the day. We still didn't give up. We tuned till about 1 AM that night in the dark outside in humid and wet conditions because it meant a lot for us to get this car running.
To recap this trip, we only had about 2 hours of real dyno time.
At around 1 AM we sat down at a local restauant and discussed how we weren't giving up. We also discussed what the faster route would be to get this car running. We talked in detail about either sending the car to us to get dialed in or the opportunity for Ahmad to swap complete ECU and harness from an E55. He later explained how the second of the two options would be easier, however we told him it is completely custom and will once again be a one off setup.
We apologize for this long and exhausting write up but this is just how it needs to be. We still intend on working with Ahmad and we are still going back and forth with tunes, but this is just a matter of the truth, and this is just a matter of portraying that we are very truthful and honest in our business.
At this point if Ahmad feels like he needs to cut ties we are fully prepaired and willing to buy the supercharger system back from him at the price he purchased it for.
Weistec Engineering
07-03-2013, 05:32 PM
#178
MBWorld Fanatic!
It's clearly not all fine. In fact what exactly seems fine to you about the way they do business? Suing someone is a time consuming undertaking and I believe it would be a very last resort for anyone. Weistec has made a lot of mistakes with the release of the SC kit and they appear to still be making them, I've yet to see where they've been unfairly treated.
I have purchased three supercharger systems from them and a couple of them my car was used for development so I know exactly What Ahmad is going through. Yes, Weistec missed a couple of deadlines with me but that's part of R&D. Weistec will not simply rush something to market just to get it out there. They want to put the best product in the world out there. My CLK is still sitting in their shop because they and I are developing something else, deadlines have been missed partly because their focus on their M113 stuff and I assume Ahmads car and partly because they will not release it until it is perfect . Sure I get antsy and upset at times but then I step back and see the big picture and Rome was not built in a day. In the two and a half years I have been working with Weistec they have delivered or over delivered on every promise.
I hope they can work this out, I have been dying to see What a Weistec system can do in Ahmads hands.
07-03-2013, 05:43 PM
#179
Super Moderator
Man, this is going to get ugly. I hope the parties can work this out as well.
This will be temporarily locked so that they can try to work these things out offline. We don't need another pissing contest on the forum.
This will be temporarily locked so that they can try to work these things out offline. We don't need another pissing contest on the forum.
07-03-2013, 05:54 PM
#180
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: THE Orange County, California
Posts: 11,921
Received 796 Likes
on
495 Posts
2020 Audi R8 V10, 2016 AMG GTS, 2018 E63S Edition 1, 2018 Porsche GTS Cab, 2012 C63 BS
The way they do business???? What are you talking about? This is a dirty industry and I have been burned by more than one tuner over the years and What I can tell you about Weistec is that they are one of the most ethical companie I have ever dealt with and that not only goes for tuning companies but every company I have dealt with in my business.
I have purchased three supercharger systems from them and a couple of them my car was used for development so I know exactly What Ahmad is going through. Yes, Weistec missed a couple of deadlines with me but that's part of R&D. Weistec will not simply rush something to market just to get it out there. They want to put the best product in the world out there. My CLK is still sitting in their shop because they and I are developing something else, deadlines have been missed partly because their focus on their M113 stuff and I assume Ahmads car and partly because they will not release it until it is perfect . Sure I get antsy and upset at times but then I step back and see the big picture and Rome was not built in a day. In the two and a half years I have been working with Weistec they have delivered or over delivered on every promise.
I hope they can work this out, I have been dying to see What a Weistec system can do in Ahmads hands.
I have purchased three supercharger systems from them and a couple of them my car was used for development so I know exactly What Ahmad is going through. Yes, Weistec missed a couple of deadlines with me but that's part of R&D. Weistec will not simply rush something to market just to get it out there. They want to put the best product in the world out there. My CLK is still sitting in their shop because they and I are developing something else, deadlines have been missed partly because their focus on their M113 stuff and I assume Ahmads car and partly because they will not release it until it is perfect . Sure I get antsy and upset at times but then I step back and see the big picture and Rome was not built in a day. In the two and a half years I have been working with Weistec they have delivered or over delivered on every promise.
I hope they can work this out, I have been dying to see What a Weistec system can do in Ahmads hands.
07-05-2013, 02:48 PM
#181
Super Moderator
After some further consideration, the staff has decided to reopen this thread.
Please keep it civil or it will be closed again.
Thanks.
Please keep it civil or it will be closed again.
Thanks.
07-05-2013, 03:30 PM
#182
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: So Cal
Posts: 2,347
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
I am glad this thread was reopened beause we really needed to read both sides of the story.
I personally have a vested interest in this thread becuase my car is now at Weistec as the test mule for a stage 1 NA 55 kit to become available for all members who are interested in another option besides Kleemann or Renntech. I am also loaning my car to them to develop a stage 2 kit usng a 3 litre SC instead of the 2.3 litre one.
As most people know, Kleemann no longer offers a twin-screw design and Renntech is a tiny twin-screw that retails for $16K.
I personally have a vested interest in this thread becuase my car is now at Weistec as the test mule for a stage 1 NA 55 kit to become available for all members who are interested in another option besides Kleemann or Renntech. I am also loaning my car to them to develop a stage 2 kit usng a 3 litre SC instead of the 2.3 litre one.
As most people know, Kleemann no longer offers a twin-screw design and Renntech is a tiny twin-screw that retails for $16K.
07-05-2013, 03:44 PM
#183
MBWorld Fanatic!
07-05-2013, 07:11 PM
#184
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
Thanks for reopening this thread. I just want to lay the facts out there and fill in the story so people can make informed decisions on their own. I will try to make it as concise and to the point as I can.
I contacted Weistec over a year ago inquiring about their supercharger kit. In the beginning they wanted me to ship the car to them and I said I was willing to do so if they gave me a good price on the blower.
"Because we were not even close to installing on a car, we did not have interest in this quite yet. We didn't have a finished product. Ahmad asks us multiple times to ship the car, but the answer was no different. We replied on May 12th, 2012 articulating that we were not ready to take his (or any) car yet, and that we still needed a few months. "
Months passed and there was still no headway was being made (no development or research as far as I'm aware for NA 55; feel free to show me something if I'm wrong). Steve expressed interest in working out a deal where I would do the R&D for the hardware and they would take care of the tuning. We came to a deal after many many months of waiting for them to release the supercharger kit (over a year actually). During this time I was repeatedly told that they were really close to releasing it and to just hang in there and it would be worth the wait. That is WHEN I would get a response at all. Usually they would just ignore me.
"On June 15th, 2012 we received a message from Ahmad stating "race gas was a bad idea" and a picture of a broken connecting rod in his engine. With the downtime the car had, he started to build up the drive-train and between this time and August of 2012 he sold his old Kleemann supercharger system to a fellow member with a W209 CLK and sent multiple drive-train pictures with his new axles and diff."
Yes I broke a rod, it is actually documented very well on this forum. Anyone that wants more info or to see how long I waited just go over to the "My modding progress" thread in the CLK55 subforum. I sold the supercharger THE SAME NIGHT I broke a rod since Weistec was telling me they will release the blower very soon. I put another motor in within 2 weeks and was back on the road ready for a 2.9L Whipple.
"On October 5th, 2012 Ahmad asks for an update. We reply with a quick text stating that we are testing on the M113K car and it is a work in progress.
From here to March 15th, 2013 we had no contact. Contact at this point was Ahmad letting me know Gadget just went 10.70's at MIR. Based on the text message he sent and him witnessing a working product it was his choice to swap all parts over to the M113K belt drive. He states that he will bolt on the AMG SC up if we can't do the supercharger system for a certain price. "
This is false. There was contact made between October 5th 2012 and March 15th 2013. I had an overseas trip planned and repeatedly contacted Weistec trying to get a supercharger before I left. I even stayed in contact from overseas using whatsapp. I was back in the states in early January and I just kept being told they were very close to releasing the supercharger. I did see Gadget run at one of my MIR track rentals and I was impressed by the mph it was running in such a heavy car. I did text Steve when Gadget ran a 10.7, afterall I thought he would want to know. Again I kept telling him the money is ready when he is. I was getting sick of waiting and had an AMG sc laying around so yes I would have just bolted that up instead. Steve said they could get me a blower sooner if I swapped over to 55k stuff. So I did, knowing that I can just bolt on the AMG if they continued to delay. He finally agreed to send me a blower and I wired him the money the next day. We did discuss him flying out to tune my car and I did have other cars lined up to help offset the cost. Notice where he says "We are going to spend alot to make work. I don't expect you to pay for all that." FACT: I did pay for all that. Only things Weistec provided me were a 55k supercharger kit, a mechanical bypass valve (which I don't use), and just recently a tuning cable last week This is thousands of dollars worth of parts, fab work, labor, and research to make the NA 55 car work with the 55k kit
Notice how he also mentions that he's flying to Dubai Monday and maybe after that he can come tune my car.
"Between April 10th, 2013 and June 7th, 2013 we went back and forth with tuning and the headaches incurred with that. It was obvious that remote tuning would not be an effective method to get a car like this up and running. We traveled to Maryland on our dime to fix this car.
We took a redeye flight to give ourselves 3 full days (and 4 nights explained later) to work on the car. Before flying out we asked Ahmad specifically if the car is sound on a hardware standpoint. The answer was yes. We arrive to Ahmad's house and we start immediately. A few flashes in the car and it was running a lot better immediately. We drove the car to his friends house to double check the car and to work on a few things. Our plan was to hit the dyno right away and get the car running strong. This plan was however derailed when we found multiple issues with the car. First, the intake air temp sensor needed to be moved to the manifold and not in the intake pipe, second, the car needed a boost gauge, and third the car had bad MAF wires that were repaired. "
This is where things get really interesting. Between April and June is 2 months that he completely didn't mention. Steve says he's busy and can't come tune and I usually can't even get a response unless something is posted on the forum. He also said he can probably get the tune right on his first try. At this point the car starts and idles on factory file but runs very rich due to much larger injectors. He says he will send me some files to try remotely since I had a EC tuning cable already. We set up several dates/times to attempt remote tuning and I even missed work for some of these days AND WAS IGNORED ALL DAY. I will have to go back and look at my calendar but I was stood up on several occasions when we had agreed upon a time/date to remote tune. The Weistec software was not working so we had Jerry from EC encrypt files that Steve would send him and then would load using the EC software. I have worked with Jerry many times in the past and he has been very helpful and was nice enough to help in this case as well. To save on time, NONE OF THE FILES WEISTEC SENT ME REMOTELY WOULD EVEN START THE CAR! Matter of fact the final file they sent me did something to the ECU where it would no longer communicate and I had to overnight it to Weistec (cost me over $100).
At this point Steve says if I want my car to run any time soon, I should load the EC file I had for my old Kleemann supercharger setup AND PUT MY SLR INJECTORS IN. NO MENTION WAS MADE THAT YOU CAN'T USE MERCEDES O-RINGS WITH THEIR MANIFOLD OR TO SWAP O-RINGS. I did as they said (which you see they later blame me for later). Things still didn't work so I repeatedly tried contacting Steve to come tune the car. After several attempts and posting on the forum Steve finally gave me a date that he would fly out to tune the car. The weekend of June 7th is what he said (this is all posted in my other thread). Fly in Friday night and do some street tuning, Dyno day Saturday, and MIR Sunday! I was excited!!
For the few weeks leading up to that date I kept asking Steve for flight details and he kept saying things along the lines of I'm booking tickets now, let you know in a few minutes. I told several people Steve was coming that weekend and had my friend who owns the shop where we dyno'd that I would need the dyno the whole day Saturday. He said he already had a customer for that day but would bump that guy to Friday so I can have the dyno all day Saturday. Everything was ready, I was finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. Less than a week prior to June 7th I still had no flight details from Steve. I ask if he's still coming that weekend and he confirms he is and is booking flight.
The Wednesday night before he was supposed to fly in I get a text less than 12 hours prior to his flight LANDING saying to pick him up at the airport in about 10 hours! THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME HE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT FLYING IN AND HE WAS SUPPOSED TO FLY IN FRIDAY NOT THURSDAY MORNING! I told him that it's very short notice and I have to work the next day and have a meeting I can't miss. His response was come on man I'm flying out there for you, you should appreciate this, work with us. So I scramble and start calling some friends. My friend Hayat (thanks!!!
) said he could pick Steve up so I could go to my meeting and I would meet Steve at my house during my lunch break so he could get started on my car. Next morning rolls by and my friend says that Weistec told him not to pick them up and they would rent a car 
Ok. Keep in mind to this point there was no mention of money and I even offered that he could stay at my condo. I text Steve and he says Mike came as well and they are heading to the hotel to get some sleep and will meet me at my house around 4. I meet up with them and we load a few files and it starts raining. So we drive my car over to my friends shop (not the one with the dyno) so we had a dry place to work. Car drove well in traffic, I was getting my hopes up.
Now let me address the three issues that Steve mentioned that supposedly derailed the dyno time. First off the dyno was supposed to be on Saturday not Thursday night but let me clarify some things
A) IAT sensor needed to be relocated... The IAT sensor is located in the MAF from the factory on the NA 55 cars. Weistec never mentioned anything about relocating it. Regardless, it involved spicing two wires and I cut a plug off a spare 55k harness I had. 10 minutes work at the most.
B) The car needed a boost gauge... The car had a boost gauge and has had it for years. I just hadn't installed the fitting in the manifold yet. Took me about 5 minutes to do that. In addition, if this is necessary they should include it with the kit, I had to purchase everything myself.
C) The car had bad MAF wires that needed to be repaired... COMPLETELY FALSE!!! The car has run with those MAF wires for many many years. The wires were extended a very long time ago, prior to me ever doing the headlight intakes and we all know the car ran very well for years after that. Matter of fact those wires weren't touched, only the two IAT wires were spiced into. I know Weistec does not want me to post a picture of their wiring job for the IAT sensor...
So in total 15 minutes of work on Thursday night. At this point Steve declares the car dyno ready. I don't know why no street pulls were done prior I even asked repeatedly prior to them coming and while they were here if I should swap out the SLR injectors back to the ones that come with the Weistec kit and was repeatedly told no. There are many witnesses to this as I made sure there were people around at all times in case of something like this happening. I call my friend that had moved his customer to Friday so we can tune Saturday and tell him that Weistec had flown in earlier than planned and if he could somehow move his customer back to Saturday. He did that as a favor to me.
So I drive the car to the dyno Friday morning and sat there and waited for Weistec to show up for hours. Got the car all strapped down and at that point is when the clock started ticking, $100/hour. Literally hours went by without a single pull. We finally get one pull in and it actually looked promising for a first pull. The run was stopped at 5800rpm, was making about 10PSI, and running 6 degrees of timing according to Steve. The car put down 485whp on that run with AFR's off the charts rich. I was happy for this to be the starting point since I had run tens before with similar power on the same dyno. After that we didn't see any more pulls that day.
At this point Steve states that the MAF has been maxed out. He asks what I used for the Kleemann setup and I said they provide a potentiometer that gets put in the MAF wire to ad resistance to prevent it from maxing out. He say's that's not a good way to do it. He says we need to make a bigger MAF housing. Luckily my friends shop has a CNC machine and all kinds of pipe benders, expanders, etc. I talk to him an he drops what he's doing to help me out and makes a bigger MAF. I mentioned that 3.5" would be plenty big for a MAF housing but Steve insisted on 4". In order to not get the finger pointed at me I told my friend to just do whatever he says. So about an hour or two later we had a new intake made (pictured earlier in the thread). Steve mentions that the power steering pulley was rubbing the custom upper radiator hose that I made. I had made sure that it wasn't and it cleared the pulley and not touching, albeit very close. Had it been touching it would have cut the hose by then. Steve and Mike elongated the 4 holes for the radiator support and moved it forward a bit. I think that was the only positive of the whole weekend. The car never ran right after the new MAF housing. Struggled to even start. My friends wife was getting really mad tat he wasn't home yet and it was late so I again asked him for a favor to use the dyno the next day even though he had another customer. He said he would ask his customer to come in later so we can get some dyno time in beforehand and worst case we would unstrap my car so he can tune the other car and then put mine back on (which is what ended up happening). We called it a night and agreed to meet up bright an dearly at the dyno the next day (left my car strapped on the dyno overnight).
Saturday morning comes along and the shop owner and I were waiting on Weistec again. When they get there they start messing with the tuning but the car was struggling to start and idle. They messed with it for a while until the other customer came for tuning. We had to push the car off the dyno and out the shop.
The Honda was tuned by my friend in less than 2 hours (superior software etc makes it much easier to tune). During this time Steve is trying to get the car to start and idle and forum member MindBend shows up with his Weistec CLS55 and him and Mike start discussing the issues he's having with his setup but I won't get into that. The Honda comes off the dyno and by this time Steve had gotten the car driveable and I could hear that he was getting into on the street. I figured AFR's must be good if he's beating on it like that. He comes back and says the car is really fast. I'm thinking maybe all this may have paid off. When Steve was pulling the car into the shop I noticed that an intercooler hose to the intercooler pump had been pulled off. I get under the car and push it back on and clamp it down with one of the shop workers. This did not take more than 15 minutes tops. Car gets strapped back down on the dyno. Steve does a pull and the car is off the charts lean. First thing I think is why was he beating on it if it was so lean? I have a wideband in the car! Anyways, Steve decided to test for vacuum leaks. He did find an injector or 2 leaking at the manifold by spraying brake cleaner. AGAIN, THE SLR INJECTORS WERE INSTALLED PER WEISTEC'S REQUEST. NO MENTION WAS MADE OF USING DIFFERENT O-RINGS. We pull the rail off and notice that the mercedes o-rings are too big for the Weistec manifold. At this point we are scrambling trying to find o-rings. Tried some that were at the shop and must have purchased at least 5+ sets of other o-rings from a parts store down the street. Buttoned everything back up and no more leaks. Unfortunately this did not fix anything. Nothing changed. The car was still on the dyno for a few hours after and made no pulls. The shop owner then had to go home.
To Steve's credit he didn't give up. He continued to try to tune it in the parking lot. He loaded a file and then the ECU stopped communicating. They had to drive back to their hotel to get special tools to reset it. At that point we decided to just load a file to get the car home and call it a night. I thought they were staying until Sunday night but apparently they were leaving Sunday morning so no tuning could be done. That didn't make sense to me since originally that was supposed to be the day we took the car to the track.
Then we went and ate dinner and discussed how to move forward. They said that I should send the car to them and they would get it dialed in. So that was the plan moving forward. Then I thought about it and figured if I deleted the MAF and ran everything 55k (ECU and rewire harness) then tuning should be much much easier and could be based off the 55k files. I gave Steve an option of either shipping the car or swapping everything to 55k. He chose the later.
At this point I paid rcompart to flow out and put in a 55k ECU and rewire. Steve knew about this in advance and was supposed to get me a file to try and he sent me a Weistec tuning cable. He shipped it to arrive Monday when I told him Rudy would only be here the weekend So to his credit he did overnight another cable. No file though. After many many texts I got an email at 4:30am with a file. After the Weistec software would not recognize the cable I tried to get Steve to help out while Rudy was still here but his response (took hours before I got any respone) was he's doing everything he can and he's too busy. Later on we had a conversation and I said he has one more week before I pull the blowr off and end all ties with Weistec. He said he would load files remotely Monday. Monday came around and he couldn't load any files remotely and he told me to overnight the ECU but it was too late in the day since we didn't start until 6pm. This time he did cover the cost f the shipping back to him and I shipped it out Tuesday night.
Once he got my ECU I saw this post by him. He said he still wanted to finish the car and will send me a file but wouldn't arrive until Friday. I have received the ECU back and this is where things stand now. I tried to keep it short but I guess that just wasn't possible. I haven't even written everything in this post but wanted the facts to be out there.
I contacted Weistec over a year ago inquiring about their supercharger kit. In the beginning they wanted me to ship the car to them and I said I was willing to do so if they gave me a good price on the blower.
"Because we were not even close to installing on a car, we did not have interest in this quite yet. We didn't have a finished product. Ahmad asks us multiple times to ship the car, but the answer was no different. We replied on May 12th, 2012 articulating that we were not ready to take his (or any) car yet, and that we still needed a few months. "
Months passed and there was still no headway was being made (no development or research as far as I'm aware for NA 55; feel free to show me something if I'm wrong). Steve expressed interest in working out a deal where I would do the R&D for the hardware and they would take care of the tuning. We came to a deal after many many months of waiting for them to release the supercharger kit (over a year actually). During this time I was repeatedly told that they were really close to releasing it and to just hang in there and it would be worth the wait. That is WHEN I would get a response at all. Usually they would just ignore me.
"On June 15th, 2012 we received a message from Ahmad stating "race gas was a bad idea" and a picture of a broken connecting rod in his engine. With the downtime the car had, he started to build up the drive-train and between this time and August of 2012 he sold his old Kleemann supercharger system to a fellow member with a W209 CLK and sent multiple drive-train pictures with his new axles and diff."
Yes I broke a rod, it is actually documented very well on this forum. Anyone that wants more info or to see how long I waited just go over to the "My modding progress" thread in the CLK55 subforum. I sold the supercharger THE SAME NIGHT I broke a rod since Weistec was telling me they will release the blower very soon. I put another motor in within 2 weeks and was back on the road ready for a 2.9L Whipple.
"On October 5th, 2012 Ahmad asks for an update. We reply with a quick text stating that we are testing on the M113K car and it is a work in progress.
From here to March 15th, 2013 we had no contact. Contact at this point was Ahmad letting me know Gadget just went 10.70's at MIR. Based on the text message he sent and him witnessing a working product it was his choice to swap all parts over to the M113K belt drive. He states that he will bolt on the AMG SC up if we can't do the supercharger system for a certain price. "
This is false. There was contact made between October 5th 2012 and March 15th 2013. I had an overseas trip planned and repeatedly contacted Weistec trying to get a supercharger before I left. I even stayed in contact from overseas using whatsapp. I was back in the states in early January and I just kept being told they were very close to releasing the supercharger. I did see Gadget run at one of my MIR track rentals and I was impressed by the mph it was running in such a heavy car. I did text Steve when Gadget ran a 10.7, afterall I thought he would want to know. Again I kept telling him the money is ready when he is. I was getting sick of waiting and had an AMG sc laying around so yes I would have just bolted that up instead. Steve said they could get me a blower sooner if I swapped over to 55k stuff. So I did, knowing that I can just bolt on the AMG if they continued to delay. He finally agreed to send me a blower and I wired him the money the next day. We did discuss him flying out to tune my car and I did have other cars lined up to help offset the cost. Notice where he says "We are going to spend alot to make work. I don't expect you to pay for all that." FACT: I did pay for all that. Only things Weistec provided me were a 55k supercharger kit, a mechanical bypass valve (which I don't use), and just recently a tuning cable last week This is thousands of dollars worth of parts, fab work, labor, and research to make the NA 55 car work with the 55k kit
Notice how he also mentions that he's flying to Dubai Monday and maybe after that he can come tune my car.
"Between April 10th, 2013 and June 7th, 2013 we went back and forth with tuning and the headaches incurred with that. It was obvious that remote tuning would not be an effective method to get a car like this up and running. We traveled to Maryland on our dime to fix this car.
We took a redeye flight to give ourselves 3 full days (and 4 nights explained later) to work on the car. Before flying out we asked Ahmad specifically if the car is sound on a hardware standpoint. The answer was yes. We arrive to Ahmad's house and we start immediately. A few flashes in the car and it was running a lot better immediately. We drove the car to his friends house to double check the car and to work on a few things. Our plan was to hit the dyno right away and get the car running strong. This plan was however derailed when we found multiple issues with the car. First, the intake air temp sensor needed to be moved to the manifold and not in the intake pipe, second, the car needed a boost gauge, and third the car had bad MAF wires that were repaired. "
This is where things get really interesting. Between April and June is 2 months that he completely didn't mention. Steve says he's busy and can't come tune and I usually can't even get a response unless something is posted on the forum. He also said he can probably get the tune right on his first try. At this point the car starts and idles on factory file but runs very rich due to much larger injectors. He says he will send me some files to try remotely since I had a EC tuning cable already. We set up several dates/times to attempt remote tuning and I even missed work for some of these days AND WAS IGNORED ALL DAY. I will have to go back and look at my calendar but I was stood up on several occasions when we had agreed upon a time/date to remote tune. The Weistec software was not working so we had Jerry from EC encrypt files that Steve would send him and then would load using the EC software. I have worked with Jerry many times in the past and he has been very helpful and was nice enough to help in this case as well. To save on time, NONE OF THE FILES WEISTEC SENT ME REMOTELY WOULD EVEN START THE CAR! Matter of fact the final file they sent me did something to the ECU where it would no longer communicate and I had to overnight it to Weistec (cost me over $100).
At this point Steve says if I want my car to run any time soon, I should load the EC file I had for my old Kleemann supercharger setup AND PUT MY SLR INJECTORS IN. NO MENTION WAS MADE THAT YOU CAN'T USE MERCEDES O-RINGS WITH THEIR MANIFOLD OR TO SWAP O-RINGS. I did as they said (which you see they later blame me for later). Things still didn't work so I repeatedly tried contacting Steve to come tune the car. After several attempts and posting on the forum Steve finally gave me a date that he would fly out to tune the car. The weekend of June 7th is what he said (this is all posted in my other thread). Fly in Friday night and do some street tuning, Dyno day Saturday, and MIR Sunday! I was excited!!
For the few weeks leading up to that date I kept asking Steve for flight details and he kept saying things along the lines of I'm booking tickets now, let you know in a few minutes. I told several people Steve was coming that weekend and had my friend who owns the shop where we dyno'd that I would need the dyno the whole day Saturday. He said he already had a customer for that day but would bump that guy to Friday so I can have the dyno all day Saturday. Everything was ready, I was finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. Less than a week prior to June 7th I still had no flight details from Steve. I ask if he's still coming that weekend and he confirms he is and is booking flight. The Wednesday night before he was supposed to fly in I get a text less than 12 hours prior to his flight LANDING saying to pick him up at the airport in about 10 hours! THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME HE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT FLYING IN AND HE WAS SUPPOSED TO FLY IN FRIDAY NOT THURSDAY MORNING! I told him that it's very short notice and I have to work the next day and have a meeting I can't miss. His response was come on man I'm flying out there for you, you should appreciate this, work with us. So I scramble and start calling some friends. My friend Hayat (thanks!!!
) said he could pick Steve up so I could go to my meeting and I would meet Steve at my house during my lunch break so he could get started on my car. Next morning rolls by and my friend says that Weistec told him not to pick them up and they would rent a car Ok. Keep in mind to this point there was no mention of money and I even offered that he could stay at my condo. I text Steve and he says Mike came as well and they are heading to the hotel to get some sleep and will meet me at my house around 4. I meet up with them and we load a few files and it starts raining. So we drive my car over to my friends shop (not the one with the dyno) so we had a dry place to work. Car drove well in traffic, I was getting my hopes up. Now let me address the three issues that Steve mentioned that supposedly derailed the dyno time. First off the dyno was supposed to be on Saturday not Thursday night but let me clarify some things
A) IAT sensor needed to be relocated... The IAT sensor is located in the MAF from the factory on the NA 55 cars. Weistec never mentioned anything about relocating it. Regardless, it involved spicing two wires and I cut a plug off a spare 55k harness I had. 10 minutes work at the most.
B) The car needed a boost gauge... The car had a boost gauge and has had it for years. I just hadn't installed the fitting in the manifold yet. Took me about 5 minutes to do that. In addition, if this is necessary they should include it with the kit, I had to purchase everything myself.
C) The car had bad MAF wires that needed to be repaired... COMPLETELY FALSE!!! The car has run with those MAF wires for many many years. The wires were extended a very long time ago, prior to me ever doing the headlight intakes and we all know the car ran very well for years after that. Matter of fact those wires weren't touched, only the two IAT wires were spiced into. I know Weistec does not want me to post a picture of their wiring job for the IAT sensor...
So in total 15 minutes of work on Thursday night. At this point Steve declares the car dyno ready. I don't know why no street pulls were done prior
I even asked repeatedly prior to them coming and while they were here if I should swap out the SLR injectors back to the ones that come with the Weistec kit and was repeatedly told no. There are many witnesses to this as I made sure there were people around at all times in case of something like this happening. I call my friend that had moved his customer to Friday so we can tune Saturday and tell him that Weistec had flown in earlier than planned and if he could somehow move his customer back to Saturday. He did that as a favor to me.So I drive the car to the dyno Friday morning and sat there and waited for Weistec to show up for hours. Got the car all strapped down and at that point is when the clock started ticking, $100/hour. Literally hours went by without a single pull. We finally get one pull in and it actually looked promising for a first pull. The run was stopped at 5800rpm, was making about 10PSI, and running 6 degrees of timing according to Steve. The car put down 485whp on that run with AFR's off the charts rich. I was happy for this to be the starting point since I had run tens before with similar power on the same dyno. After that we didn't see any more pulls that day.
At this point Steve states that the MAF has been maxed out. He asks what I used for the Kleemann setup and I said they provide a potentiometer that gets put in the MAF wire to ad resistance to prevent it from maxing out. He say's that's not a good way to do it. He says we need to make a bigger MAF housing. Luckily my friends shop has a CNC machine and all kinds of pipe benders, expanders, etc. I talk to him an he drops what he's doing to help me out and makes a bigger MAF. I mentioned that 3.5" would be plenty big for a MAF housing but Steve insisted on 4". In order to not get the finger pointed at me I told my friend to just do whatever he says. So about an hour or two later we had a new intake made (pictured earlier in the thread). Steve mentions that the power steering pulley was rubbing the custom upper radiator hose that I made. I had made sure that it wasn't and it cleared the pulley and not touching, albeit very close. Had it been touching it would have cut the hose by then. Steve and Mike elongated the 4 holes for the radiator support and moved it forward a bit. I think that was the only positive of the whole weekend. The car never ran right after the new MAF housing. Struggled to even start. My friends wife was getting really mad tat he wasn't home yet and it was late so I again asked him for a favor to use the dyno the next day even though he had another customer. He said he would ask his customer to come in later so we can get some dyno time in beforehand and worst case we would unstrap my car so he can tune the other car and then put mine back on (which is what ended up happening). We called it a night and agreed to meet up bright an dearly at the dyno the next day (left my car strapped on the dyno overnight).
Saturday morning comes along and the shop owner and I were waiting on Weistec again. When they get there they start messing with the tuning but the car was struggling to start and idle. They messed with it for a while until the other customer came for tuning. We had to push the car off the dyno and out the shop.
The Honda was tuned by my friend in less than 2 hours (superior software etc makes it much easier to tune). During this time Steve is trying to get the car to start and idle and forum member MindBend shows up with his Weistec CLS55 and him and Mike start discussing the issues he's having with his setup but I won't get into that. The Honda comes off the dyno and by this time Steve had gotten the car driveable and I could hear that he was getting into on the street. I figured AFR's must be good if he's beating on it like that. He comes back and says the car is really fast. I'm thinking maybe all this may have paid off. When Steve was pulling the car into the shop I noticed that an intercooler hose to the intercooler pump had been pulled off. I get under the car and push it back on and clamp it down with one of the shop workers. This did not take more than 15 minutes tops. Car gets strapped back down on the dyno. Steve does a pull and the car is off the charts lean. First thing I think is why was he beating on it if it was so lean? I have a wideband in the car! Anyways, Steve decided to test for vacuum leaks. He did find an injector or 2 leaking at the manifold by spraying brake cleaner. AGAIN, THE SLR INJECTORS WERE INSTALLED PER WEISTEC'S REQUEST. NO MENTION WAS MADE OF USING DIFFERENT O-RINGS. We pull the rail off and notice that the mercedes o-rings are too big for the Weistec manifold. At this point we are scrambling trying to find o-rings. Tried some that were at the shop and must have purchased at least 5+ sets of other o-rings from a parts store down the street. Buttoned everything back up and no more leaks. Unfortunately this did not fix anything. Nothing changed. The car was still on the dyno for a few hours after and made no pulls. The shop owner then had to go home.
To Steve's credit he didn't give up. He continued to try to tune it in the parking lot. He loaded a file and then the ECU stopped communicating. They had to drive back to their hotel to get special tools to reset it. At that point we decided to just load a file to get the car home and call it a night. I thought they were staying until Sunday night but apparently they were leaving Sunday morning so no tuning could be done. That didn't make sense to me since originally that was supposed to be the day we took the car to the track.
Then we went and ate dinner and discussed how to move forward. They said that I should send the car to them and they would get it dialed in. So that was the plan moving forward. Then I thought about it and figured if I deleted the MAF and ran everything 55k (ECU and rewire harness) then tuning should be much much easier and could be based off the 55k files. I gave Steve an option of either shipping the car or swapping everything to 55k. He chose the later.
At this point I paid rcompart to flow out and put in a 55k ECU and rewire. Steve knew about this in advance and was supposed to get me a file to try and he sent me a Weistec tuning cable. He shipped it to arrive Monday when I told him Rudy would only be here the weekend
So to his credit he did overnight another cable. No file though. After many many texts I got an email at 4:30am with a file. After the Weistec software would not recognize the cable I tried to get Steve to help out while Rudy was still here but his response (took hours before I got any respone) was he's doing everything he can and he's too busy. Later on we had a conversation and I said he has one more week before I pull the blowr off and end all ties with Weistec. He said he would load files remotely Monday. Monday came around and he couldn't load any files remotely and he told me to overnight the ECU but it was too late in the day since we didn't start until 6pm. This time he did cover the cost f the shipping back to him and I shipped it out Tuesday night. Once he got my ECU I saw this post by him. He said he still wanted to finish the car and will send me a file but wouldn't arrive until Friday. I have received the ECU back and this is where things stand now. I tried to keep it short but I guess that just wasn't possible. I haven't even written everything in this post but wanted the facts to be out there.
Last edited by blackbenzz; 07-05-2013 at 07:23 PM.
07-05-2013, 09:18 PM
#185
Senior Member
I came there in the spirit of comradery, looking to gleam some good info, meet the guys behind the curtain, and possibly get some dyno time. 3 outta 4 ain't bad.
It seemed a bit tense and busy, so I just chatted with Mike about my car. I appreciate meeting them and talked about my car, where they are headed, and what's next. I think it helps to shake a hand, speak eye to eye and establish a connection rather than an email address.
Amhad, I hope you can work things out. Do you think you can get a tune that gets your car close then just send logs for more accurate tuning?
It seemed a bit tense and busy, so I just chatted with Mike about my car. I appreciate meeting them and talked about my car, where they are headed, and what's next. I think it helps to shake a hand, speak eye to eye and establish a connection rather than an email address.
Amhad, I hope you can work things out. Do you think you can get a tune that gets your car close then just send logs for more accurate tuning?
07-05-2013, 11:45 PM
#187
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 38 Likes
on
33 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
ok, forgive my ignorance here, but is there something incredibly unusual about your setup? I came from the blown 4v mustang world and putting a whipple/kb on a v8 and getting it to run hard was no issue whatsoever. Sure, you had a pegged MAF here or there, or some trouble getting decent driveability out of high impedence big boy injectors (60s were no sweat, into the 80s and it got a bit more difficult). Aside from that though, even with radical cams, the tuning was not a huge issue.
If there is this much fuss over tuning a fairly stock motored PD blown v8, then mb tuners could learn a thing or two from the domestic guys.
If there is this much fuss over tuning a fairly stock motored PD blown v8, then mb tuners could learn a thing or two from the domestic guys.
07-05-2013, 11:57 PM
#188
MBWorld Fanatic!
ok, forgive my ignorance here, but is there something incredibly unusual about your setup? I came from the blown 4v mustang world and putting a whipple/kb on a v8 and getting it to run hard was no issue whatsoever. Sure, you had a pegged MAF here or there, or some trouble getting decent driveability out of high impedence big boy injectors (60s were no sweat, into the 80s and it got a bit more difficult). Aside from that though, even with radical cams, the tuning was not a huge issue.
If there is this much fuss over tuning a fairly stock motored PD blown v8, then mb tuners could learn a thing or two from the domestic guys.
If there is this much fuss over tuning a fairly stock motored PD blown v8, then mb tuners could learn a thing or two from the domestic guys.
07-06-2013, 08:09 AM
#189
ok, forgive my ignorance here, but is there something incredibly unusual about your setup? I came from the blown 4v mustang world and putting a whipple/kb on a v8 and getting it to run hard was no issue whatsoever. Sure, you had a pegged MAF here or there, or some trouble getting decent driveability out of high impedence big boy injectors (60s were no sweat, into the 80s and it got a bit more difficult). Aside from that though, even with radical cams, the tuning was not a huge issue.
If there is this much fuss over tuning a fairly stock motored PD blown v8, then mb tuners could learn a thing or two from the domestic guys.
If there is this much fuss over tuning a fairly stock motored PD blown v8, then mb tuners could learn a thing or two from the domestic guys.
........+100000000
.........I have been saying this consistently, but I get accused of needlessly bashing Mercedes tuners. What's funny is that Weistec is actually one if the better ones. My comments are not about Weistec in particular, but the entire Mercedes family of so called tuners, with the possible exception of Kleemann, renntech and Brabus, have a lot to learn before they start offering products for sale. Right now calling Mercedes wannabe tuners, tuners is laughable.
......what's even more disturbing is how Mercedes Benz owners have come to accept this as okay. They take the abuse and then praise the tuners. It's like mercedes/AMG version of Stockholm syndrome.
Ted
07-06-2013, 09:51 AM
#190
You think the Mustang world is full of tuning scholars? The software makes it very easy to communicate with the ecu and put all the changeable parameters and maps into an interface that high school dropouts can understand. Theres a select few that really know what they are doing, and an army of chimps that rip off their files, tweak target AF graphs and play with idle speed and timing.
ok, forgive my ignorance here, but is there something incredibly unusual about your setup? I came from the blown 4v mustang world and putting a whipple/kb on a v8 and getting it to run hard was no issue whatsoever. Sure, you had a pegged MAF here or there, or some trouble getting decent driveability out of high impedence big boy injectors (60s were no sweat, into the 80s and it got a bit more difficult). Aside from that though, even with radical cams, the tuning was not a huge issue.
If there is this much fuss over tuning a fairly stock motored PD blown v8, then mb tuners could learn a thing or two from the domestic guys.
If there is this much fuss over tuning a fairly stock motored PD blown v8, then mb tuners could learn a thing or two from the domestic guys.
07-06-2013, 09:56 AM
#191
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 38 Likes
on
33 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
You think the Mustang world is full of tuning scholars? The software makes it very easy to communicate with the ecu and put all the changeable parameters and maps into an interface that high school dropouts can understand. Theres a select few that really know what they are doing, and an army of chimps that rip off their files, tweak target AF graphs and play with idle speed and timing.
Think about the number of 03 cobras with cams, big whipples, 80+lb injectors, aftermarket maf's, exhaust, etc that drive damn near like stock?
Of course there are hacks. But when people get presented as MB geniuses and they can't get what should be a fairly simple set up tuned, it makes you wonder.
07-06-2013, 10:01 AM
#192
I didn't say the rest were hacks, they're chimps that see someone else do it and rip it off and sell it to someone else. The point I'm trying to make is that the software available to the GM and Ford guys makes it very easy to make these changes. This software isnt available for Mercedes so to compare the skill level and abilities of the tuners between marques isn't realistic.
full of tuning scholars? Absolutely not. Able to make insane power driveable, yes.
Think about the number of 03 cobras with cams, big whipples, 80+lb injectors, aftermarket maf's, exhaust, etc that drive damn near like stock?
Of course there are hacks. But when people get presented as MB geniuses and they can't get what should be a fairly simple set up tuned, it makes you wonder.
Think about the number of 03 cobras with cams, big whipples, 80+lb injectors, aftermarket maf's, exhaust, etc that drive damn near like stock?
Of course there are hacks. But when people get presented as MB geniuses and they can't get what should be a fairly simple set up tuned, it makes you wonder.
07-06-2013, 11:04 AM
#194
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: L.I. NY
Posts: 1,203
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
2011 CTSV auto, 06 E55 white pano, 87 Grand national, 63 split window
Wow! I can really only say one thing...this thread made me actually make a decision on what car to buy next...2012 e55 and simply tune it and I am done...it will be fast enough!
I give all you guys credit for the patience that you have with all these 'TUNERS' and builders...etc. but holy crap...HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO IT?
I give all you guys credit for the patience that you have with all these 'TUNERS' and builders...etc. but holy crap...HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO IT?
07-06-2013, 12:06 PM
#195
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#81 MX5 Cup, M52 E30 325i, 2500HD Duramax 500rwhp
i bought my car intending on swapping the blower out. Looks like I'm going to just save a few more pennies for an E63 biturbo and skip the whole tuning nightmare stage. I appreciate when people take a chance/leap wiht new products, i also appreciate when they give real world honest information about failures/lack of success.
07-06-2013, 06:40 PM
#196
MBWorld Fanatic!
Wow! I can really only say one thing...this thread made me actually make a decision on what car to buy next...2012 e55 and simply tune it and I am done...it will be fast enough!
I give all you guys credit for the patience that you have with all these 'TUNERS' and builders...etc. but holy crap...HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO IT?
I give all you guys credit for the patience that you have with all these 'TUNERS' and builders...etc. but holy crap...HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO IT?
How do you keep on going and going? I sometimes think that it's because of the immense amounts of dollars already invested , they think it'll all be waste if we stop now, so they keep pouring in more and more.
Ahmed man , I really really hope all this gets worked out.
Actually I wish it works out for all the people going through Weistic debacles right now.
07-08-2013, 03:05 AM
#198
Senior Member
BlackBenz, good to see there is some progress. Hope it works out
As an aside, anyone know why, in some cases, direct quotes from private communications between the parties are permitted by the moderators, while in others not? For e.g. the moderators deleted a direct quote in the op in my "Setting the record straight" thread on the basis that I needed Weistec's consent for this, yet this thread is riddled with (I'm sure non-consensual) verbatim transcripts - may be useful going forward to understand the reason for the seemingly different approaches
07-08-2013, 09:00 AM
#199
MBWorld Fanatic!
Dont think either side wanted the headache that this has become. Did the laptop sent have the tune to get the car running better since two weeks ago?
07-08-2013, 01:28 PM
#200
Out Of Control!
Wow!
Can't believe i actually missed this thread. Guess i need to spend more time here. lol
Congrats Ahmad on your Weistec. Guess you're the pioneer to the M113 platform? I knew you were planning on this but didn't know when.
From what i've read through the whole pages it looks like the only problem now is the tuning part correct? Are you running Weistec Stage 3 setup or what?
Can't believe i actually missed this thread. Guess i need to spend more time here. lol
Congrats Ahmad on your Weistec. Guess you're the pioneer to the M113 platform? I knew you were planning on this but didn't know when.
From what i've read through the whole pages it looks like the only problem now is the tuning part correct? Are you running Weistec Stage 3 setup or what?
