Graphic throttle body info
#27
I have front cat delete. I deleted with star.
I think we are hitting load v/s throttle threasholds that are not in the tune. Think about this. If the throttle is supposed to be 18% at a given load range and we are achieving that load at 12 % throttle- the ecu may not have that duty cycle built into the map and available to tell the injectors to open enough.
I think we are hitting load v/s throttle threasholds that are not in the tune. Think about this. If the throttle is supposed to be 18% at a given load range and we are achieving that load at 12 % throttle- the ecu may not have that duty cycle built into the map and available to tell the injectors to open enough.
#28
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Joined: May 2011
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From: Las Vegas, NV
1000Hp Diesel Trucks, 2019 E63s
I have front cat delete. I deleted with star.
I think we are hitting load v/s throttle threasholds that are not in the tune. Think about this. If the throttle is supposed to be 18% at a given load range and we are achieving that load at 12 % throttle- the ecu may not have that duty cycle built into the map and available to tell the injectors to open enough.
I think we are hitting load v/s throttle threasholds that are not in the tune. Think about this. If the throttle is supposed to be 18% at a given load range and we are achieving that load at 12 % throttle- the ecu may not have that duty cycle built into the map and available to tell the injectors to open enough.
#29
MY 82 TB
I am writing this article as a continuation of the thread about the EC tune and 550 injectors coupled with an 82 mm throttle-body causing erratic idol and running conditions.
The engine runs perfectly most of the time however it does run erratically after a long run at extremely light throttle and then trying to re-accelerate. When this occurs the engine runs extremely Lean to the point it will backfire buck and pop. At times when pulling up to a red light at idle it will do the same thing.
At first I thought this was a result of the 550 injectors causing a rich overall mixture and the computer compensating for it. So i reinstalled the stock injectors and has Jerry from eurocharged send me a new tune. It displayed the exact same drivability issues.
I then contacted other industry pros to help out. One led me down the path of the throttle body and gave me a good argument. Since NO 112-113 engine ever came with an 82mm TB, the calibration just isn't there. I think this is very well the case.
I took apart a stock TB and an 82 to measure a few things. Here is what i found!
The gear set and stepper motors are identical in every way. The sweepers are slightly different in the resistance value. I am going to try a set of resistors to get an identical setup to stock to see if that is the problem. Ill let u guys know.
The engine runs perfectly most of the time however it does run erratically after a long run at extremely light throttle and then trying to re-accelerate. When this occurs the engine runs extremely Lean to the point it will backfire buck and pop. At times when pulling up to a red light at idle it will do the same thing.
At first I thought this was a result of the 550 injectors causing a rich overall mixture and the computer compensating for it. So i reinstalled the stock injectors and has Jerry from eurocharged send me a new tune. It displayed the exact same drivability issues.
I then contacted other industry pros to help out. One led me down the path of the throttle body and gave me a good argument. Since NO 112-113 engine ever came with an 82mm TB, the calibration just isn't there. I think this is very well the case.
I took apart a stock TB and an 82 to measure a few things. Here is what i found!
The gear set and stepper motors are identical in every way. The sweepers are slightly different in the resistance value. I am going to try a set of resistors to get an identical setup to stock to see if that is the problem. Ill let u guys know.
I had a new 82 mm Merc TB from Modern horsepower, My shop had to open and change wires around, Then was all good I have ec tune, But factory inj. Hope helps.I can call them in am and see if they did anything else to make it work if you like?
#30
HICCUP
I spoke too soon. Just took the car out to find some hills and bamm!! Actually was only doing about 65 going up the hill and felt the slight hiccup stft's maxed. I knew it was too good to be true. Question for others that are having this exact issue, do you guys also get a hiccup once and a while at lower speeds upon light throttle application. I do notice it sometimes around town at about 30 when I press lightly on the gas. No, it is not the s/c engaging and it feels almost identical to the one on the highway but it doesn't cause the stfts to go out of whack or throw the code. Just thinking out loud. Anybody swap the cap from a 74 to theirs yet? I may try this, seems like it shouldn't be too difficult
#31
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Joined: May 2007
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From: Clearwater Beach, Florida
2016 Cls63s AMG
#32
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From: Orbiting the planet
This place is a joke.
Berti have you made any highway trips with yours yet, in the 70mph cruising range that the others are reporting? Going to install mine in a few weeks and getting nervous.
#34
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,380
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From: Clearwater Beach, Florida
2016 Cls63s AMG
Yah alot... In fact just earlier today on a bridge open road did 135 and just wanted to goooo.. what should I have experienced??
#35
Have 82mm on mine with my Weistec. During idle in burps a bit on occassion, but ECU seems to quickly correct as it does closed-loop math. Seems to be more severe after a battery disconnect, etc as the ECU relearns. (could just be coincidence).
#36
82mm TB was the first mod I had fitted in my car, it was then driven to another tuner to fit a crank pulley, decat and tune. The tuner called me that on the way to his workshop he got a CEL and the same B28 pressure sensor error, it happened ever since.
I have had new map sensor, new wiring to map sensor the TB & bypass TB, 3 TB's, 2 different intakes & pretty much every "fix" that people have suggested.
I have had a couple of times when it has happened at low speeds (less than 40) but 90% of the time it is around 80mph cruising and then slight uphill.
If I gun it or accelerate no problem, I have taken the car to 180's several times at full WOT and no issue and can drive for hundreds of miles at less than 70 without issue.
I have had new map sensor, new wiring to map sensor the TB & bypass TB, 3 TB's, 2 different intakes & pretty much every "fix" that people have suggested.
I have had a couple of times when it has happened at low speeds (less than 40) but 90% of the time it is around 80mph cruising and then slight uphill.
If I gun it or accelerate no problem, I have taken the car to 180's several times at full WOT and no issue and can drive for hundreds of miles at less than 70 without issue.
Last edited by SavMan; 06-06-2013 at 08:38 AM.
#38
82mm TB was the first mod I had fitted in my car, it was then driven to another tuner to fit a crank pulley, decat and tune. The tuner called me that on the way to his workshop he got a CEL and the same B28 pressure sensor error, it happened ever since.
I have had new map sensor, new wiring to map sensor the TB & bypass TB, 3 TB's, 2 different intakes & pretty much every "fix" that people have suggested.
I have had a couple of times when it has happened at low speeds (less than 40) but 90% of the time it is around 80mph cruising and then slight uphill.
If I gun it or accelerate now problem, I have taken the car to 180's several times at full WOT and no issue and can drive for hundreds of miles at less than 70 without issue.
I have had new map sensor, new wiring to map sensor the TB & bypass TB, 3 TB's, 2 different intakes & pretty much every "fix" that people have suggested.
I have had a couple of times when it has happened at low speeds (less than 40) but 90% of the time it is around 80mph cruising and then slight uphill.
If I gun it or accelerate now problem, I have taken the car to 180's several times at full WOT and no issue and can drive for hundreds of miles at less than 70 without issue.
#40
Interestingly it happens less with the EC map than the previous 2
Not tried swapping the caps
#41
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From: Las Vegas, NV
1000Hp Diesel Trucks, 2019 E63s
Swapping parts isn't going to fix this problem, it's a tuning problem and I suspect it has everything to do with throttle percentage and map pressure triggering a conflict in the ECU under closed loop operation. That's why once you go beyond a certain size TB it seems to cause the problem. The bigger a TB the lower the throttle percentage at a given load. Of course knowing how finicky MB's ECU's can be car to car and year by year, I think that's why some people have it happen and others don't.
#42
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 502
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From: Porter Ranch, CA
E55, CTS-V Wagon, Duc 1098R
Swapping parts isn't going to fix this problem, it's a tuning problem and I suspect it has everything to do with throttle percentage and map pressure triggering a conflict in the ECU under closed loop operation. That's why once you go beyond a certain size TB it seems to cause the problem. The bigger a TB the lower the throttle percentage at a given load. Of course knowing how finicky MB's ECU's can be car to car and year by year, I think that's why some people have it happen and others don't.
#44
.02
You're on the right track trying to find the commonalities between your car and others which are experiencing similar problems.
However, I doubt the throttle body per say is the issue. None the less, I tested my stock and 82mm t/b today. Stock was .973 ohm and the 82mm was 1.009.
No issues with mine. Oetune if that becomes relevant.
However, I doubt the throttle body per say is the issue. None the less, I tested my stock and 82mm t/b today. Stock was .973 ohm and the 82mm was 1.009.
No issues with mine. Oetune if that becomes relevant.
#45
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
From: Porter Ranch, CA
E55, CTS-V Wagon, Duc 1098R
#47
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
From: Porter Ranch, CA
E55, CTS-V Wagon, Duc 1098R
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 20
From: Las Vegas, NV
1000Hp Diesel Trucks, 2019 E63s
#49
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
From: Porter Ranch, CA
E55, CTS-V Wagon, Duc 1098R
Very well could be. I think Savman has it right that the parameters coming in from the sensors don't exist on the map and the car goes into this unrecoverable mode that only gets "reset" with a key cycle. It wouldn't surprise me that these are not readily available as a damos and are hex coded to keep the processing duty cycle down. Trouble shooting and finding that would take some serious work. I'll try and do some more research on the Bosch ME to see if there is a place to look since my guess is that if this was an easy fix, the tuners would have accommodated it already...Time to talk to tuners outside of the Benz world that are familiar with the Bosch ME strategy to get more insight.
Anyone know of another forced induction speed density car that uses the Bosch ME? Everyone I can think of uses a MAF system.
Anyone know of another forced induction speed density car that uses the Bosch ME? Everyone I can think of uses a MAF system.
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 20
From: Las Vegas, NV
1000Hp Diesel Trucks, 2019 E63s
Very well could be. I think Savman has it right that the parameters coming in from the sensors don't exist on the map and the car goes into this unrecoverable mode that only gets "reset" with a key cycle. It wouldn't surprise me that these are not readily available as a damos and are hex coded to keep the processing duty cycle down. Trouble shooting and finding that would take some serious work. I'll try and do some more research on the Bosch ME to see if there is a place to look since my guess is that if this was an easy fix, the tuners would have accommodated it already...Time to talk to tuners outside of the Benz world that are familiar with the Bosch ME strategy to get more insight.
Anyone know of another forced induction speed density car that uses the Bosch ME? Everyone I can think of uses a MAF system.
Anyone know of another forced induction speed density car that uses the Bosch ME? Everyone I can think of uses a MAF system.