GregMB

This is interesting information, but if this is true then a modified factory pulley (with damper) isnt a perfect solution either. Seems like when you add a larger ring to a stock pulley you are moving its tuned frequency away from the factory spec.... probably to a lower value. (Hz)

For a 168mm pulley perhaps the change is minimal, but for a 195mm pulley you are adding literally POUNDS of extra mass. Whatever tuning was done with the factory damper can't possibly be worth much once the pulley is modified so radically.

Just thinking out loud.


-G

Manuyc

i will never install a crank pulley again.

loungn14

Hey Cory,

I just wanted to clarify, all of our crank pulleys are internally dampened and always have been! (we have a spring system etc)

Congrats on the product!!

cij911

Non-dampened crank pulleys are not a wise option IMHO....Good luck

marcmaddox

I've assembled and later disassemble several small block fords that were ran with various centrifugal supercharges. Each example was ran with solid mounted super charger drive hubs,one was clogged. A couple of these had solid tensioners that allowed for excessive belt tension. All of the engines I built were externally balanced versions (damper was an intregal part of the balance of the rotating assembly). I never found any excessive wear and tear on the main/thrust bearings. I currently run a solid mounted overdrive crank pulley on my Lightning and have experienced no issues with it for over a year and several thousand of miles. I know I am not comparing apples to apples here, but the mechanics are basically the same. I don't see this being an issue with a quality designed and properly installed part.

PACougar

I'm confused, you're saying you ran an external damper on all of your engines? If that's the case then you're really not comparing apples to apples because this pulley isn't dampened.

marcmaddox

Yes, the later SBF engine (302, 5.0L,5.8L) are externally balanced. The hub/damper is counter weighted as is the flex plate/flywheel. You can internally balance them, but it is very expensive to do so. Irregardless, the point is- All these engines had solid supercharger drives attached to them and no harm was ever encountered. The same should hold true with these engines also. Oh, and I stated that I knew I wasn't comparing apples to apples. The principle of the subject is similar and the results should be similar as well.

PACougar

So would you run a non-dampened crank pulley on one of your externally balanced engines? I'm not sure why you're bringing up the SC drive, it has nothing to do with running a non-dampened crank pulley.

marcmaddox

Never mind. Your missing the point completely. Perhaps it's my explanation. I'll just bow out and let you guys make your own decisions.

BBBSS

How much are the other brand that keeps the factory dampner? I wouldn't want to remove the dampner from a high performance motor. Especially when you start pushing it past originally designed limits.

black06c230

Marcmaddox: Irregardless

That is not a real word.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...m=irregardless
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/irregardless.aspx

Carry on now

AgSilver

I have a very high regard for Kleemann products. However, in this case, I suggest considering lightweight rotors which will reduce rotating mass by close to 40 lbs. There is a significant improvement in performance, handling, and braking. Additionally you do not have to be concerned with engine damage or reliability.

I have been running an ASP 168 for 40k+ miles.

If you're building an all-out racer, then "you buy your tickets and take your chances."

marcmaddox

Since I was called out on my grammar I'll add this...The damper itself is still a engine harmonic damper. The supercharger pulley is simply solidly attached to it, in this case (and the point of my examples) instead of being attached with a shock absorbing coupler. The only thing the dampened coupler does is reduce the shock of the super charger engagement. The engine harmonic damper (the part the supercharger pulley is attached to) is not affected.

Feel free to critique my grammar if it makes you feel better.

Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

Maybe I'm still a little wobbly from last night ( I def am) but I'm having trouble deciphering that post. Are you saying that the dampening function of the stock balancer/pulley is to reduce supercharger engagement shock?

marcmaddox

Basically, yes.

marcmaddox

The only issue I see with this type of pulley is more pronounced belt slippage when the supercharger clutch engages. This will be even pronounced if a smaller than stock super charger pulley is used (less belt contact with pulley).

Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

Who told you that ?

marcmaddox

Experience told me that.

PACougar

You need to experience more.

Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

Either you're really far off in outer space, or I'm just not in synch with what you're thinking.

marcmaddox

lol. Ok, enlighten me. How about some actual technical information. I won't expect a lot, as smart-*** comments and conjecture are about all I see on this site.

PACougar

How about it's there to dampen vibrations through the rotating assembly. Don't get me wrong the SC engagement is certainly a cause for concern when it comes to that. By all means test your theory out, others have ran non-dampened pulleys on these cars and it didn't turn out to well for them. At the end of the day if you want to find out the hard way go for it.

marcmaddox

If failures occurred, I suspect it is due to the build quality of the pulley, or poor installation. The simple fact I am trying to convey is- A solid mount between the damper and the super charger will NOT cause engine damage. A poorly designed and/or built piece certainly can.

PACougar

I know you're going to think I'm a *******, but I'm not trying to be. You don't think the dampener is there to remove any other vibrations except ones caused by the engagement of the SC? Also, even if you believe that, how much experience do you have with these motors, it appears you're trying to make one hell of a extrapolation from your experience. Let me ask you this why do all MB have have dampened crank pulleys, most don't have clutch engaged SC's?

marcmaddox

Ok, I think I understand our misunderstanding. I am talking about the way the super charger pulley is attached to the damper. The stock unit (pulley) is attaced to the damper with a coupler that allows for a small amount of rotation, seperate from the damper itself. A shock absorber coupling, so to speak. The pulley they are offering has no such coupling. It is attached directly to the damper. The engine harmonic dampening capabilities are not compromised if the damper is properly designed. My point: a solid mounted super charger (to the damper) in of itself, will NOT cause engine damage.