new KLEEMANN alloy boost pulley!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 12
From: The Granite State
.
I produced and tested three versions of the non damped pulleys...look on a stock pulley, there will be a frequency printed on it...dont you think the unlimited engineering budget of Mercedes Benz will have a reason for this? The frequency will offset the negative vibration produced by by the engine. The damper will absorb and help cancel it....
For a 168mm pulley perhaps the change is minimal, but for a 195mm pulley you are adding literally POUNDS of extra mass. Whatever tuning was done with the factory damper can't possibly be worth much once the pulley is modified so radically.
Just thinking out loud.
-G
SPONSOR
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,459
Likes: 152
From: Houston/ Austin /Toronto / UAE / Minneapolis / Orlando /Cincinnati
Eurocharged Performance ML63 and TT lambo
I just wanted to clarify, all of our crank pulleys are internally dampened and always have been! (we have a spring system etc)
Congrats on the product!!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 22
From: Orange County, CA.
one car at a time
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
2005 E55 AMG, 2012 GL550, 2000 Ford Lightning, 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD
I've assembled and later disassemble several small block fords that were ran with various centrifugal supercharges. Each example was ran with solid mounted super charger drive hubs,one was clogged. A couple of these had solid tensioners that allowed for excessive belt tension. All of the engines I built were externally balanced versions (damper was an intregal part of the balance of the rotating assembly). I never found any excessive wear and tear on the main/thrust bearings. I currently run a solid mounted overdrive crank pulley on my Lightning and have experienced no issues with it for over a year and several thousand of miles. I know I am not comparing apples to apples here, but the mechanics are basically the same. I don't see this being an issue with a quality designed and properly installed part.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 20
From: Las Vegas, NV
1000Hp Diesel Trucks, 2019 E63s
I've assembled and later disassemble several small block fords that were ran with various centrifugal supercharges. Each example was ran with solid mounted super charger drive hubs,one was clogged. A couple of these had solid tensioners that allowed for excessive belt tension. All of the engines I built were externally balanced versions (damper was an intregal part of the balance of the rotating assembly). I never found any excessive wear and tear on the main/thrust bearings. I currently run a solid mounted overdrive crank pulley on my Lightning and have experienced no issues with it for over a year and several thousand of miles. I know I am not comparing apples to apples here, but the mechanics are basically the same. I don't see this being an issue with a quality designed and properly installed part.
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
2005 E55 AMG, 2012 GL550, 2000 Ford Lightning, 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD
Yes, the later SBF engine (302, 5.0L,5.8L) are externally balanced. The hub/damper is counter weighted as is the flex plate/flywheel. You can internally balance them, but it is very expensive to do so. Irregardless, the point is- All these engines had solid supercharger drives attached to them and no harm was ever encountered. The same should hold true with these engines also. Oh, and I stated that I knew I wasn't comparing apples to apples. The principle of the subject is similar and the results should be similar as well.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 20
From: Las Vegas, NV
1000Hp Diesel Trucks, 2019 E63s
Yes, the later SBF engine (302, 5.0L,5.8L) are externally balanced. The hub/damper is counter weighted as is the flex plate/flywheel. You can internally balance them, but it is very expensive to do so. Irregardless, the point is- All these engines had solid supercharger drives attached to them and no harm was ever encountered. The same should hold true with these engines also. Oh, and I stated that I knew I wasn't comparing apples to apples. The principle of the subject is similar and the results should be similar as well.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,212
Likes: 5
From: Chicago
03 E55 AMG, 06 Harley Road King Custom 06 Ram 2500 Cummins, 97 Firebird Race Car, 88 Cutlass Supreme
How much are the other brand that keeps the factory dampner? I wouldn't want to remove the dampner from a high performance motor. Especially when you start pushing it past originally designed limits.
Last edited by BBBSS; Jun 29, 2013 at 01:00 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,004
Likes: 241
From: Usa
mgLipGD
Marcmaddox: Irregardless
That is not a real word.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...m=irregardless
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/irregardless.aspx
Carry on now
That is not a real word.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...m=irregardless
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/irregardless.aspx
Carry on now
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 32
From: Florida-Germany-New York
2004 E55,1969 300SEL6.3,2011 ML350 BlueTec Diesel,2005 ML400 CDI
I have a very high regard for Kleemann products. However, in this case, I suggest considering lightweight rotors which will reduce rotating mass by close to 40 lbs. There is a significant improvement in performance, handling, and braking. Additionally you do not have to be concerned with engine damage or reliability.
I have been running an ASP 168 for 40k+ miles.
If you're building an all-out racer, then "you buy your tickets and take your chances."
I have been running an ASP 168 for 40k+ miles.
If you're building an all-out racer, then "you buy your tickets and take your chances."
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
2005 E55 AMG, 2012 GL550, 2000 Ford Lightning, 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD
Since I was called out on my grammar I'll add this...The damper itself is still a engine harmonic damper. The supercharger pulley is simply solidly attached to it, in this case (and the point of my examples) instead of being attached with a shock absorbing coupler. The only thing the dampened coupler does is reduce the shock of the super charger engagement. The engine harmonic damper (the part the supercharger pulley is attached to) is not affected.
Feel free to critique my grammar if it makes you feel better.
Feel free to critique my grammar if it makes you feel better.
MBWorld Fanatic!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 29
From: Orlando
1967 Pro Touring turbo LSX Camaro
Maybe I'm still a little wobbly from last night ( I def am) but I'm having trouble deciphering that post. Are you saying that the dampening function of the stock balancer/pulley is to reduce supercharger engagement shock?
Since I was called out on my grammar I'll add this...The damper itself is still a engine harmonic damper. The supercharger pulley is simply solidly attached to it, in this case (and the point of my examples) instead of being attached with a shock absorbing coupler. The only thing the dampened coupler does is reduce the shock of the super charger engagement. The engine harmonic damper (the part the supercharger pulley is attached to) is not affected.
Feel free to critique my grammar if it makes you feel better.
Feel free to critique my grammar if it makes you feel better.
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
2005 E55 AMG, 2012 GL550, 2000 Ford Lightning, 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD
The only issue I see with this type of pulley is more pronounced belt slippage when the supercharger clutch engages. This will be even pronounced if a smaller than stock super charger pulley is used (less belt contact with pulley).
MBWorld Fanatic!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 29
From: Orlando
1967 Pro Touring turbo LSX Camaro
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
2005 E55 AMG, 2012 GL550, 2000 Ford Lightning, 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD
lol. Ok, enlighten me. How about some actual technical information. I won't expect a lot, as smart-*** comments and conjecture are about all I see on this site.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 20
From: Las Vegas, NV
1000Hp Diesel Trucks, 2019 E63s
How about it's there to dampen vibrations through the rotating assembly. Don't get me wrong the SC engagement is certainly a cause for concern when it comes to that. By all means test your theory out, others have ran non-dampened pulleys on these cars and it didn't turn out to well for them. At the end of the day if you want to find out the hard way go for it.
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
2005 E55 AMG, 2012 GL550, 2000 Ford Lightning, 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD
If failures occurred, I suspect it is due to the build quality of the pulley, or poor installation. The simple fact I am trying to convey is- A solid mount between the damper and the super charger will NOT cause engine damage. A poorly designed and/or built piece certainly can.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 20
From: Las Vegas, NV
1000Hp Diesel Trucks, 2019 E63s
I know you're going to think I'm a *******, but I'm not trying to be. You don't think the dampener is there to remove any other vibrations except ones caused by the engagement of the SC? Also, even if you believe that, how much experience do you have with these motors, it appears you're trying to make one hell of a extrapolation from your experience. Let me ask you this why do all MB have have dampened crank pulleys, most don't have clutch engaged SC's?
Last edited by PACougar; Jun 29, 2013 at 10:26 AM.
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
2005 E55 AMG, 2012 GL550, 2000 Ford Lightning, 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD
I know you're going to think I'm a *******, but I'm not trying to be. You don't think the dampener is there to remove any other vibrations except ones caused by the engagement of the SC? Also, even if you believe that, how much experience do you have with these motors, it appears you're trying to make one hell of a extrapolation from your experience. Let me ask you this why do all MB have have dampened crank pulleys, most don't have clutch engaged SC's?
