WTF! CLS is not a coupe!
11-14-2003, 07:45 PM
#26
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07 M6, 05 Noble, 01 S4, Smart ForTwo
Originally posted by CarlssonCRS
jesus. that looks like a lexus es!
jesus. that looks like a lexus es!
Interior however is amazing. I'd order one if they bulk up the sheet metal a bit.
11-14-2003, 09:17 PM
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I like it. I would be on board if it had more leg room in the back than the E55. Now, it there was going to be a CLS 65 AMG, I am there. Especially if they can figure out how to handle more than 700 lbs of torque with the new transmission. How awsome would that be, to have a 4 door, not the size of S Class - slightly smaller and lighter, but to have 900 lbs of torque to carry around your passengers when you had to. And when you were all alone, to be able to just blow away any car out there.
11-14-2003, 09:23 PM
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07 M6, 05 Noble, 01 S4, Smart ForTwo
Originally posted by AMGB
I like it. I would be on board if it had more leg room in the back than the E55. Now, it there was going to be a CLS 65 AMG, I am there. Especially if they can figure out how to handle more than 700 lbs of torque with the new transmission. How awsome would that be, to have a 4 door, not the size of S Class - slightly smaller and lighter, but to have 900 lbs of torque to carry around your passengers when you had to. And when you were all alone, to be able to just blow away any car out there.
I like it. I would be on board if it had more leg room in the back than the E55. Now, it there was going to be a CLS 65 AMG, I am there. Especially if they can figure out how to handle more than 700 lbs of torque with the new transmission. How awsome would that be, to have a 4 door, not the size of S Class - slightly smaller and lighter, but to have 900 lbs of torque to carry around your passengers when you had to. And when you were all alone, to be able to just blow away any car out there.
11-14-2003, 10:50 PM
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hey guys,
i would have really liked to see MB produce an E class coupe(2 door). this design is nice but a pure 2 door would imho been more to my liking. the main reason being price. the CL is stunning but it is also expensive. also the CLK's are just a little to small inside. something in the middle would have been just right
i would have really liked to see MB produce an E class coupe(2 door). this design is nice but a pure 2 door would imho been more to my liking. the main reason being price. the CL is stunning but it is also expensive. also the CLK's are just a little to small inside. something in the middle would have been just right
11-16-2003, 01:24 PM
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the front of the car looks like an A-class 
and I'm sure the interior of the production car won't be anywhere near that level of finish and quality. The headliner is all leather on this concept, as well as almost everything else inside.
I'm waiting for a production version to make my judgement.
and I'm sure the interior of the production car won't be anywhere near that level of finish and quality. The headliner is all leather on this concept, as well as almost everything else inside.
I'm waiting for a production version to make my judgement.
11-18-2003, 09:21 PM
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AUGGGGGGGGHHHH!!!
This is what happens when Bruno Sacco retired from the company!
What the heck is with those seat patterns?!
THERE IS NOTHING TRADITIONAL ON THIS CAR IN RELEVANCE TO BENZ'S PREVIOUS MODELS!
"A Mercedes should always look like a Mercedes" say bye-bye to that philosophy!
OMG, the W210, W220 and the new SL are the LAST Benz's for me! At least they look distinctive!
This is what happens when Bruno Sacco retired from the company!
What the heck is with those seat patterns?!
THERE IS NOTHING TRADITIONAL ON THIS CAR IN RELEVANCE TO BENZ'S PREVIOUS MODELS!
"A Mercedes should always look like a Mercedes" say bye-bye to that philosophy!
OMG, the W210, W220 and the new SL are the LAST Benz's for me! At least they look distinctive!
11-19-2003, 09:33 AM
#33
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THIS IS NOT THE CAR WE WERE PROMISED!
Originally posted by FInality
The 6 series is designed to compete with the CLK class the CLS is a totally different class of vehicle. I dont understand why people find that such a hard concept to grasp.
The 6 series is designed to compete with the CLK class the CLS is a totally different class of vehicle. I dont understand why people find that such a hard concept to grasp.
You can not sell a car that has no market! No one to my knowledge was demanding this car. We were under the impression that we would see a "real" mid sized coupe based on the W211 because the CLK is too small for some and the CL is too expensive.
I guess if Bentley and Rolls Royce can make ultra luxurious, exclusive cars which are really ugly Mercedes can too. These cars sell mainly because of their amenities and their exclusiveness and not because the are highly attractive and pleasing to the eye.
If the same car cost $30k and was made by Oldsmobile it would not sell. By the way the Olds Aurora did not sell well.
Four doors and 4 door handles does not equal coupe. It is a sedan. This is the design I was hoping for. It looks more like a coupe even with the extra doors and it does not look like and Aurora or a ES300:
11-19-2003, 01:56 PM
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Re: THIS IS NOT THE CAR WE WERE PROMISED!
Originally posted by E55 KEV
You can not sell a car that has no market! No one to my knowledge was demanding this car. We were under the impression that we would see a "real" mid sized coupe based on the W211 because the CLK is too small for some and the CL is too expensive.
I guess if Bentley and Rolls Royce can make ultra luxurious, exclusive cars which are really ugly Mercedes can too. These cars sell mainly because of their amenities and their exclusiveness and not because the are highly attractive and pleasing to the eye.
If the same car cost $30k and was made by Oldsmobile it would not sell. By the way the Olds Aurora did not sell well.
Four doors and 4 door handles does not equal coupe. It is a sedan. This is the design I was hoping for. It looks more like a coupe even with the extra doors and it does not look like and Aurora or a ES300:
You can not sell a car that has no market! No one to my knowledge was demanding this car. We were under the impression that we would see a "real" mid sized coupe based on the W211 because the CLK is too small for some and the CL is too expensive.
I guess if Bentley and Rolls Royce can make ultra luxurious, exclusive cars which are really ugly Mercedes can too. These cars sell mainly because of their amenities and their exclusiveness and not because the are highly attractive and pleasing to the eye.
If the same car cost $30k and was made by Oldsmobile it would not sell. By the way the Olds Aurora did not sell well.
Four doors and 4 door handles does not equal coupe. It is a sedan. This is the design I was hoping for. It looks more like a coupe even with the extra doors and it does not look like and Aurora or a ES300:
MB Dominated the luxo GT category for a long time with the CL and the CLK is another market where MB had NO competitor hence the 6 series. MB literally minted money with these two lines. Hence the Continental GT and the 6 series introductions.
A coupe is designed more by the shape of its C pillar than anything else it does not signify a lack of a B pillar if that was the case the CLK would not have been a coupe.
I admit that I am not a big fan of the CLS's stylings but that doesn't mean it wont do well as a model, I dont particularly like the SLK either but it seems to be doing very well for MB.
11-19-2003, 04:04 PM
#35
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It looks like this CLE design will be the Mercedes-Bangle!
Originally posted by FInality
Actually you can sell a car that has no market take the SUV or minivan for that matter.
MB Dominated the luxo GT category for a long time with the CL and the CLK is another market where MB had NO competitor hence the 6 series. MB literally minted money with these two lines. Hence the Continental GT and the 6 series introductions.
A coupe is designed more by the shape of its C pillar than anything else it does not signify a lack of a B pillar if that was the case the CLK would not have been a coupe.
I admit that I am not a big fan of the CLS's stylings but that doesn't mean it wont do well as a model, I dont particularly like the SLK either but it seems to be doing very well for MB.
Actually you can sell a car that has no market take the SUV or minivan for that matter.
MB Dominated the luxo GT category for a long time with the CL and the CLK is another market where MB had NO competitor hence the 6 series. MB literally minted money with these two lines. Hence the Continental GT and the 6 series introductions.
A coupe is designed more by the shape of its C pillar than anything else it does not signify a lack of a B pillar if that was the case the CLK would not have been a coupe.
I admit that I am not a big fan of the CLS's stylings but that doesn't mean it wont do well as a model, I dont particularly like the SLK either but it seems to be doing very well for MB.
Who says that only the absence of a B-Pillar makes a car a coupe? Most 2 door cars have a b-pillar. It is very difficult to build them without a b-pillar and be safe. Having four doors with handles qualifies a car as a sedan. If four people can enter the vehicle at the same time by pulling on a door handle - it is a sedan. No one can enter the RX-8 or Saturn solely by the rear doors. The fronts must be opened first.
If the car had the "accessory" type doors without outside door handles like the Saturn and the RX-8 then maybe the car can be called a "coupe".
Daimler-Chrysler think we are idiots because they are building sedans and calling them coupes and building wagons and calling them Tourers. The CLE is still a sedan no matter what and a station wagon is a wagon.
You don't hear people saying I have a Plasma Video Monitor, which it actually is - they say I have a Plasma TV and be done with it without getting into technical issue on semantics.
I can see the owners of the CLE now when they pick up their cars from the valet. I am driving the Silver 4 door Coupe and the Valet goes - Huh!
Person # 1 - Hey man, I have been waiting for you outside for 30 minutes.
Person #2 - I looked out the window and only see a Sedan - you said you were picking me up in a Coupe.
Person #1 - Hey dude, Mercedes says it is a coupe.
Person #2 - They lied to you!
11-19-2003, 07:33 PM
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hey guys,
one thing i'm pretty sure of is that the CLK's hold their
value more than any other benz.
E55KEV...i agree with you....4 doors=sedan...seems right to me
one thing i'm pretty sure of is that the CLK's hold their
value more than any other benz.
E55KEV...i agree with you....4 doors=sedan...seems right to me
11-19-2003, 08:10 PM
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Re: It looks like this CLE design will be the Mercedes-Bangle!
Originally posted by E55 KEV
I don't believe the numbers for the CL and CLK are really that successful. Does that qualify as a success because they had no competition? Coupes are more of a niche product. I don't think the CLK was a sales success - look at how quick they changed it. The W208 CLK chassis is Mercedes shortest lived chassis - only 5 years. The W209 should have been released in 2004 model and not try to share the spotlight with the introduction of the W211.
Who says that only the absence of a B-Pillar makes a car a coupe? Most 2 door cars have a b-pillar. It is very difficult to build them without a b-pillar and be safe. Having four doors with handles qualifies a car as a sedan. If four people can enter the vehicle at the same time by pulling on a door handle - it is a sedan. No one can enter the RX-8 or Saturn solely by the rear doors. The fronts must be opened first.
If the car had the "accessory" type doors without outside door handles like the Saturn and the RX-8 then maybe the car can be called a "coupe".
Daimler-Chrysler think we are idiots because they are building sedans and calling them coupes and building wagons and calling them Tourers. The CLE is still a sedan no matter what and a station wagon is a wagon.
You don't hear people saying I have a Plasma Video Monitor, which it actually is - they say I have a Plasma TV and be done with it without getting into technical issue on semantics.
I can see the owners of the CLE now when they pick up their cars from the valet. I am driving the Silver 4 door Coupe and the Valet goes - Huh!
Person # 1 - Hey man, I have been waiting for you outside for 30 minutes.
Person #2 - I looked out the window and only see a Sedan - you said you were picking me up in a Coupe.
Person #1 - Hey dude, Mercedes says it is a coupe.
Person #2 - They lied to you!
I don't believe the numbers for the CL and CLK are really that successful. Does that qualify as a success because they had no competition? Coupes are more of a niche product. I don't think the CLK was a sales success - look at how quick they changed it. The W208 CLK chassis is Mercedes shortest lived chassis - only 5 years. The W209 should have been released in 2004 model and not try to share the spotlight with the introduction of the W211.
Who says that only the absence of a B-Pillar makes a car a coupe? Most 2 door cars have a b-pillar. It is very difficult to build them without a b-pillar and be safe. Having four doors with handles qualifies a car as a sedan. If four people can enter the vehicle at the same time by pulling on a door handle - it is a sedan. No one can enter the RX-8 or Saturn solely by the rear doors. The fronts must be opened first.
If the car had the "accessory" type doors without outside door handles like the Saturn and the RX-8 then maybe the car can be called a "coupe".
Daimler-Chrysler think we are idiots because they are building sedans and calling them coupes and building wagons and calling them Tourers. The CLE is still a sedan no matter what and a station wagon is a wagon.
You don't hear people saying I have a Plasma Video Monitor, which it actually is - they say I have a Plasma TV and be done with it without getting into technical issue on semantics.
I can see the owners of the CLE now when they pick up their cars from the valet. I am driving the Silver 4 door Coupe and the Valet goes - Huh!
Person # 1 - Hey man, I have been waiting for you outside for 30 minutes.
Person #2 - I looked out the window and only see a Sedan - you said you were picking me up in a Coupe.
Person #1 - Hey dude, Mercedes says it is a coupe.
Person #2 - They lied to you!
what the hell r u talking about, the clk was and still is a top selling car. when i checked it out the first year it came out there was a two year whaiting list and its been going good ever since. and the only reason the clk and the cl with many other models arent around too much is b/c mb only sells a limited amout of most cars. imagine mb made three times the amount of CL's SL's SLR's and other models, they would all be sold out. and btw i love the way most models are designed by mb especially the newer models.
11-20-2003, 02:54 PM
#39
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Re: Re: It looks like this CLE design will be the Mercedes-Bangle!
Originally posted by Lov2xlr8
what the hell r u talking about, the clk was and still is a top selling car. when i checked it out the first year it came out there was a two year whaiting list and its been going good ever since. and the only reason the clk and the cl with many other models arent around too much is b/c mb only sells a limited amout of most cars. imagine mb made three times the amount of CL's SL's SLR's and other models, they would all be sold out. and btw i love the way most models are designed by mb especially the newer models.
what the hell r u talking about, the clk was and still is a top selling car. when i checked it out the first year it came out there was a two year whaiting list and its been going good ever since. and the only reason the clk and the cl with many other models arent around too much is b/c mb only sells a limited amout of most cars. imagine mb made three times the amount of CL's SL's SLR's and other models, they would all be sold out. and btw i love the way most models are designed by mb especially the newer models.
Market research tells MBZ how many will sell and they only send and make what they can sell.
Last edited by E55 KEV; 11-20-2003 at 02:58 PM.
11-20-2003, 04:10 PM
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All of the above
My 2 cents:
As a "coupe kind of guy",
I don't get the concept of a 4 door coupe myself. To me a coupe is a 2 door, period. A 4 door is a sedan. Allthough there were 4 door "hardtops" in the 60s/70s. McGarret (sp?) drives a 4 door Mercury on Hawaii 5-0 that is a 4 door with no B pillar. Very cool.
So a coupe is a 2 door with a roof. A "2 door Hardtop" is a B pillar-less coupe. Ala the current CLK or the CL.
I drive the last of the true E class coupes (also a pillarless "2 door hardtop"), a 300CE.
Like Kev, I anticipated a true E class coupe and was already getting excited about trading my venerable 300CE on an '05 "500CE". What a nice car that would be if it were a true "2 door hardtop coupe like a CL.
Alas, I geuss I'll be driving the CE untill a CL is in the budget.
As a "coupe kind of guy",
I don't get the concept of a 4 door coupe myself. To me a coupe is a 2 door, period. A 4 door is a sedan. Allthough there were 4 door "hardtops" in the 60s/70s. McGarret (sp?) drives a 4 door Mercury on Hawaii 5-0 that is a 4 door with no B pillar. Very cool.
So a coupe is a 2 door with a roof. A "2 door Hardtop" is a B pillar-less coupe. Ala the current CLK or the CL.
I drive the last of the true E class coupes (also a pillarless "2 door hardtop"), a 300CE.
Like Kev, I anticipated a true E class coupe and was already getting excited about trading my venerable 300CE on an '05 "500CE". What a nice car that would be if it were a true "2 door hardtop coupe like a CL.
Alas, I geuss I'll be driving the CE untill a CL is in the budget.
11-20-2003, 05:30 PM
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Fiscal Neo Con Express
hey guys,
i found some sales numbers ...these are US only up till Sept30.
CLK-7335
CLK cabriolet-6894
C coupe-8725
CL-2597
E-38629
C sedan-38871
S-15982
CLK-4863
SL-8891
M-21942
G-1361
C wagon-2950
E wagon-408
i found some sales numbers ...these are US only up till Sept30.
CLK-7335
CLK cabriolet-6894
C coupe-8725
CL-2597
E-38629
C sedan-38871
S-15982
CLK-4863
SL-8891
M-21942
G-1361
C wagon-2950
E wagon-408
11-20-2003, 08:09 PM
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Re: Re: Re: It looks like this CLE design will be the Mercedes-Bangle!
Originally posted by E55 KEV
What the Hell am I talking about? I bet you have no idea how many CLK and CL's are sold each year, Do you? If you did you would state so. The numbers are small, very small. I have seen the number and if I remember correctly it was a 4 digit number, which means under 9,999 units, well under. MB sells around 200,000 unit per year and CLK sales are under 5 %. Where is the success in those number. If the chassis was successful if would not have run 5 years (the shortest in MB history). They numbers are small because demand is small and having limited demand does not equate to a sales success. The E55 has always had a two year waiting list and that does not make it a sales "success" especially since only 500 per year are sold. So I guess you will say the E55 is a sales success because demand is higher than 500 per year and there is a waiting list. That would be totally incorrect.
Market research tells MBZ how many will sell and they only send and make what they can sell.
What the Hell am I talking about? I bet you have no idea how many CLK and CL's are sold each year, Do you? If you did you would state so. The numbers are small, very small. I have seen the number and if I remember correctly it was a 4 digit number, which means under 9,999 units, well under. MB sells around 200,000 unit per year and CLK sales are under 5 %. Where is the success in those number. If the chassis was successful if would not have run 5 years (the shortest in MB history). They numbers are small because demand is small and having limited demand does not equate to a sales success. The E55 has always had a two year waiting list and that does not make it a sales "success" especially since only 500 per year are sold. So I guess you will say the E55 is a sales success because demand is higher than 500 per year and there is a waiting list. That would be totally incorrect.
Market research tells MBZ how many will sell and they only send and make what they can sell.
btw if you have to wait 2years for a car it means that it more people then expected want it. so acording to mb they did good and made money. the e55 is like an M bmw and how many do they of those compared to the avarege model. its a limited production car, like if ferrrari is only making 349 enzo's and they sell only 349 and 349 people also wanted to buy it(2 year waiting list) then does that mean that it didnt sell good b/c 349 ferrai's compared to all the ferrari's is a very smal number? i dont think so.
11-21-2003, 09:28 AM
#43
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It is the overall Percentages that count.
Originally posted by Lov2xlr8
btw if you have to wait 2years for a car it means that it more people then expected want it. so acording to mb they did good and made money. the e55 is like an M bmw and how many do they of those compared to the avarege model. its a limited production car, like if ferrrari is only making 349 enzo's and they sell only 349 and 349 people also wanted to buy it(2 year waiting list) then does that mean that it didnt sell good b/c 349 ferrai's compared to all the ferrari's is a very smal number? i dont think so.
btw if you have to wait 2years for a car it means that it more people then expected want it. so acording to mb they did good and made money. the e55 is like an M bmw and how many do they of those compared to the avarege model. its a limited production car, like if ferrrari is only making 349 enzo's and they sell only 349 and 349 people also wanted to buy it(2 year waiting list) then does that mean that it didnt sell good b/c 349 ferrai's compared to all the ferrari's is a very smal number? i dont think so.
Last edited by E55 KEV; 11-21-2003 at 09:35 AM.
11-21-2003, 10:00 AM
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Re: It is the overall Percentages that count.
Originally posted by E55 KEV
Yeah, but is the Enzo only 5% of their total sales volume in the US? I doubt it.
Yeah, but is the Enzo only 5% of their total sales volume in the US? I doubt it.
Take a look at CL and CLK sales volumes worldwide not just in the US. Its quite suprising to see how popular the CL is outside the states where I saw very very few CLs.
11-21-2003, 04:16 PM
#45
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Originally posted by FInality
Actually it probably is.
Take a look at CL and CLK sales volumes worldwide not just in the US. Its quite suprising to see how popular the CL is outside the states where I saw very very few CLs.
Actually it probably is.
Take a look at CL and CLK sales volumes worldwide not just in the US. Its quite suprising to see how popular the CL is outside the states where I saw very very few CLs.
11-21-2003, 07:10 PM
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The definition of "sales success" is a blur at best. How is it defined? By the # of cars sold? Coupes (CLK&CL) & high end cars (SL) are not going to sell as well as traditional sedans (C&E). Does that mean they're not successful? MB identified a nitch in the market, determined the size of that nitch, and produced cars at a rate that will fill that nitch. The question is are they profitable? Is the c-class coupe a success? Sales have plummeted in it's second year. It all depends on how you define success.
As for the CLS, as I have always done, I will make my final decision when I actually see the car (in person) in various colors and have an opportunity to sit in it.
As for the CLS, as I have always done, I will make my final decision when I actually see the car (in person) in various colors and have an opportunity to sit in it.
11-27-2003, 01:25 AM
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S500 - 96
I think
- it will be successfull coz alot of older people are looking to get the new sleek coupe look (I agree with the sedan/coupe mis labling) in a MB. I personally think the car look very good.
Yes a little of all car's in there but that goes for many other cars too.
At least it's not decidely ugly as a BMW.
I only wish that it would have a star in the front as a proper sedan. I guess omitting the star goes with the coupe label.
So stupid!!!!!
I genera I think missing the star emblem on the hood detracts from a MB. That's a major reason I stay with sedans.
However, I like the CLS and I think it will do well given it's looks, size, luxury and new body style! (what ever they call it)
Jari
Yes a little of all car's in there but that goes for many other cars too.
At least it's not decidely ugly as a BMW.
I only wish that it would have a star in the front as a proper sedan. I guess omitting the star goes with the coupe label.
So stupid!!!!!
I genera I think missing the star emblem on the hood detracts from a MB. That's a major reason I stay with sedans.
However, I like the CLS and I think it will do well given it's looks, size, luxury and new body style! (what ever they call it)
Jari
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