03'55AMG

Bump. Any word on the shifting issues yet? I have been wanting to increase boost for so long now that I don't have to touch the crank.. Would a EC HX and split cooling with 010 pump be sufficient for EC tune and SC pulley?

turbo97se

*edit* deleted

Denroll

I suppose I should elaborate here. I am having some driveability issues that seem to be related to the infamous TB hiccup. It's what I am now officially referring to as "Hiccup Mode." I am working closely with Jerry to get this resolved. The big problem is he can't replicate the problem with the shop car as it is not heavily modified (yet).

Basically what happens is that under normal driving, when calculated load reaches ~45% at part throttle (say going up a hill at highway speeds or pulling away from a stop a certain way), there is a hiccup that happens and the car enters hiccup mode. The fuel trims go really high, often a rough idle when stopped at a light, and just a weird throttle at constant speed. It stays in hiccup mode until the car is turned off and on again; a semi-minor annoyance with stoplights, a huge pain in the dong/***** on the highway. This has been an ongoing issue for roughly half the people who modify to the point of upgrading the throttle body. Plenty of threads to be searched. At first we thought it was just with the Audi/Porsche TBs, but then some people with an upgraded OEM MB unit were also having it. I had two different Audi 82mm TBs on mine with the exact same issue. I decided to try out the 90mm BBK TB made for the Chrysler Hemi engines as a couple of other guys have done. It required a completely different pinout than the Audi pin swap, but not hard to do. I put my 90mm on and paid extra attention to make sure there were no air leaks anywhere, another theory behind the hiccup problem. Mine is sealed very well all over. Lo and behold, I still had the hiccup with the exact same symptoms. Not a single thing was changed with how it acted, which led me to believe the problem is elsewhere. Others have been chasing this ghost and have done lots of measures including changing the MAP sensor (hiccup mode throws a P0106 code), updating ECU at the dealer, resets in STAR, etc. Nothing seems to be the magic fix.

Now, in the name of being awesome, I decided to go with the Fixed pulley after seeing the results on the EC shop car and hearing the driving impressions. I was waiting to see Bramage's results first as he was going to be the first "heavily modified" car to run it and be the test mule (if required). I didn't feel like waiting and ordered it, also. His came in first and he installed and ran it. Absolutely loved it. Mine came in and I installed it and uploaded the new tune. First drive was great. Car felt really smooth and pulled hard, even though I didn't beat it that hard yet. I wanted to see my data logs first before giving it the full fury of my right foot. I had a bad sensor on my left bank, but my right bank was showing a little lean. Jerry sent me an updated tune right away and it was much better. I was seeing mid 10s AFR (on the meth), but was still a little apprehensive because I couldn't see what was going on with my other bank. I blew an engine once and didn't want to do that again. I was in the middle of a 4-day househunting trip and wouldn't be fixing the sensor until I got back.

But, while on the trip, the car started the hiccup thing again. The problem is exacerbated with the fixed pulley in that once it hits right around 7-8psi, it cuts all the fuel and stumbles hard. It can still be driven in hiccup mode and will even cruise the highway like normal. Restart the car and it is fine. The problem is that the fixed pulley is kinda too good in that you can go from full vacuum to pretty much full boost instantly when you kick it. I'm seriously talking like within fractions of a second. That's great for when the car is running normally, but not for hiccup mode. Now the odd thing about hiccup mode is that after uploading a new tune or disconnecting the battery for a while, it will not go into hiccup mode until it has been driven for about 50 miles or so. That makes testing a little harder and more time consuming. I got super happy when I deliberately tried to trigger hiccup mode after a new tune and it didn't do it... only to start dropping F-bombs when it happened later.

I have been data logging the occasion a lot and have been back and forth with Jerry with the data. We could get more done much faster if it weren't for my workday schedule, the time it takes to trigger after a new tune, and the massive amount of land between us. The bottom line is that when it's running like it's supposed to, the car with this pulley is just so damn awesome that I want to keep going with it. Instant torque at any time, speed, rpm, whatever; the car doesn't care. cruising at 80 and just a light press on the throttle is met with a surprising amount of acceleration in 5th. Oh, and getting rid of that clutch engagement is still making me happy. I am not ready to throw in the towel and go back to the clutched pulley yet. I am confident we (as in the entire community) can get this problem figured out and the car will be awesome all the time.

If you have a stock or slightly modified car, I would still give this mod an enthusiastic "hell yes!" recommendation, although I will leave it with those of you who already have it to offer your impressions.

Regarding shifting issues, I have read that some people are having a hesitation during shifting at WOT. Since I was kinda babying it for a while, I never stayed on it long enough to trigger a shift. I finally did it last week. I was feeling good, car was running great, and I had two new AFR sensors that showed my WOT AFRs looking sweet. I floored it at 50mph (tranny in S mode) and it dropped to 2nd gear. Shaking that *** and flashing the triangle, hell yes! 2nd gear didn't take long at all and then it shifted into 3rd. I had never felt a shift like this in the car before. Once it hit third, it was right there back in the fat part of the torque curve and it hit hard enough to probably chirp the tires and the car lunged forward. It. Felt. Awesome! I do have the Eurocharged TCU tune with raised torque limiter. I have never experienced any bad shifting issues in the past. I want to get the car to the track on my slicks, but want to get it running properly first. I have a feeling this fixed pulley is going to help cut a sick 60' time.

Oh, and for those of you who are curious, I did do about 1000 miles the weekend after the fixed pulley install. My first tank of gas, which did involve a lot of mountain driving and "slightly elevated" speed, almost all highway with a few stops showed an indicated 20.6 mpg. I did 293 miles and put in 15.12 gallons at the next fuel stop, which is about 19.4mpg. On the way home, going through the flat desert, I did a constant 75mph for an hour straight (that's hard to do) and showed an indicated 23mpg. Before the pulley, I could get over 24mpg indicated, so there is probably a slight hit in fuel economy. In the interest of science, I detoured into Mexico for a little bit, bumped the speed up to 100mph, and reset the trip odo. About 10 minutes at that speed showed in indicated average of 20.5mpg, about 2.5mpg less than doing a constant 75mph.

IATs, as discussed previously, are higher while cruising. It is directly proportional to engine RPM, which makes sense. Highway cruising, I am typically ~35-40 degrees over ambient. If I drop it into 4th gear, they go up a little higher, and in third gear even higher. Keep in mind, this is with a pretty aggressive 175mm lower and 80mm upper pulley combo. A less aggressive combo will see lower temps. Regardless, I am running meth, so I just really don't care, lol.

Lastly... meth. On the old pulley setup, I had my ZT-2 programmed to activate meth at 7psi and 70% throttle. With new pulley, you can meet that immediately off of idle if you are aggressive with the throttle. I wasn't joking about instant boost. Spraying meth at such a low RPM causes the engine to bog, which is no good. We (Me n' Bramage, the coolest guys in SD!) had to dial it way down. We tried to set a minimum RPM to the complex warning formula, but it didn't work. Instead, we bumped the boost required to 9psi. Still way too easy to do and I went through 2 gallons in a week. We tried again and did some testing. We really wanted to figure out the RPM and decided that there had to be some multiplier. Long story short, putting in 450 as the minimum RPM to trigger the warning along with 11psi and 70% throttle is a good sweet spot. Whatever the weird multiplier is, 450 works out to be roughly 1900rpm and is a decent spot to begin spraying. After more driving, I might adjust it up just a little more, but this is working well so far.

The tl;dr cliff-note version: I saved babies from a burning orphanage, adopted a kitten from an animal shelter right before it was euthanized, gave Kate Upton a boob job, and fixed the health care website. You're welcome, America.

GunMoto

Your critical feedback and comments provides an important insight on whether I decide jump into this wormhole of performance modding, as well as for others I'm sure. It also confirms the obvious importance of data logging, which is of course paramount. Thanks for the updates bro!

lm7

My car is another case with this issue. I did a round of mods at the same time with the FSP including a 90mm BBK TB. So i didnt experience the "TB hiccup" pre-FSP. I can tell you its a rather pain in the *** on the highway and can be some what violent feeling. The issue doesnt always store a code and in some cases is an extreme fall on its face drop off feeling in others its a slight cut out in power. In all cases you have to keep the car in vacuum until you can turn off and cycle the key. Like denroll said its driveable but a pain when it occurs because any boost will make it spike lean immediately... thats the most concerning part not sure how many total lean spikes id like to go through in the name of trial and error replicating an issue for the sake of logging it. its a bummer because the FSP makes the car run HARD but makes this mysterious hiccup issue that much worse. to make things even stickier i have a 3k stall in the car so staying out of the hiccup mode and keeping speed or getting up to speed from a light SUCKS.

jonnyc

I've had the pulley on for a couple weeks now so i'll give my review.first here is a list of my mods:
80mm fsp
larger h/e
010 pump
split cooling
ec ecu and tcu tune

I use to have the 84mm clutch pulley on.while I did notice increase in power from stock,it wasn't the gain I was expecting.the difference between the fixed pulley and clutch pulley is huge.the throttle response and added torque are incredible.when I ordered the pulley Shardul said it will feel more like a n/a car.man was he right.the one thing I've never liked with the e55 was the lag between your foot going to the floor and the torque pushing you back into the seat.now,if your in the right gear,as soon as you start pushing the gas pedal it starts to put you into the seat.this morning I was driving,had it in second gear doing 30mph and was at about 2500 rpm,as soon as I hit the gas the yellow triangle lite up and flashed until it hit third.
now any mod is going to have side effects.here are my cons of the pulley:
1. the supercharger is loud/rattles at idle.but as soon as you get the rpms up to 1000 or higher the rattle goes away.Shardul said it's normal since the gears are always spinning.i sent Bramage and Denroll a pm about it.Bramage said both his car and Denroll's car had the rattle at idle.Denroll said he didn't notice a rattle though.
2. with the trans in s mode and driving normal the car likes to hold the gear before it shifts especially the 3-4 shift.under wot it will shift quick and hard though.in c mode it drives no different than the clutch pulley does.
3. my mpg average has dropped about 1.5mpg both around town and on the freeway.this doesn't bother me though because I didn't buy the e55 because of its gas milage.
4. when you first install the tune you will need to put some miles on it beforeit drives right.the first day it searched for idle a lot and was jerky feeling.now after about 150 miles the computer has adjusted and it's driving good.
5. the last of the cons is you will need to constantly monitor your iat.right now i'm using the torque app but I just ordered an iat guage that i'll mount in the ashtray location.

as far as iat i'm seeing about 27* over ambient while driving normal.
I don't know if this mod is for everyone but since this isn't my dd i'm loving this pulley.even if it was a dd car I would still love the mod and could live with everything except the rattling supercharger.

dllhg

I am really surprised to see very little input from vendor on these issues Great idea but almost everyone has problems affecting every day driving Bummer, I was pretty excited about this mod too.

As for the TB hiccup everyone talks about , has anyone seen that with OE tune ? I have EC 82mm TB and no hiccup, another local to me with same mods and a different 82mm TB and has zero issues. We both have OE tunes. Just wondering if most of those have to do with tune .....

Denroll

I know the EC guys in Houston are pretty swamped right now between this, their monster build, and whatever other normal business they have going on. I'm trying to funnel as much info and data as I can to jerry so he doesn't have to do the same thing over and over again. I'm expecting another tune here shortly to try out. Keep you all posted.

Regarding the supercharger noise, my old clutch bearings were pretty noisy, so this pulley is actually quieter.

Like jonnyc said, this new pulley is F-U-N!

AMGSC

Just curious, I don't see your quarter mile time recorded on Dragtimes.com. Why not?

sales@eurocharged.com

The customer wishes to keep his record quite for now. Since we don't own the car we don't feel we should post.

Bramage

Ill come out of the closet when I am good and ready.. not before..

Manuyc

i got the v2 tune installed with the 77mm clutch less pulley and once in a while the car bogs out too around the 50 mph, it cuts off too when its hot out on a rare occasion. i have split cooling and bigger H/E.

my question where does the extra boost goes to when it all boost is not used? unless i am wrong with the question

but the car feels amazing and with the pulley. Im sure it will be all ironed out and fixed. Shardull and Euro charge are good vendors and they are working there best to get it fixed..

thanks

Denroll

Jerry just sent me an updated tune. After much driving, he was able to replicate the hiccup and he thinks he may have it sorted out.

Eff it, I'm leaving work right now to install it. I'll report back after a couple of days.

60nomad

Just curious for a friend of mine with the FSP...is this more related to the TB or the shifting issues with the FSP? Is the shifting issue possibly fixed?

Denroll

Not sure. I never had a shifting issue, just the TB.

DonnieD

If the hiccup is fixed, ill order the pulley and tune. My car is heavily modded and has had the hiccup issue since full mod and tune.

Crissus

So the hiccup comes from the tune if you implement a 82mm TB into your car?
Wow... i missing my words here... Since when is this issue popular/known?

GregMB

Am I reading that dyno sheet correctly by the O.P.????

Stock E55: Baseline dyno of 396WHP
Add FSP + Tune: 473WHP

.....Nothing else added to the car? Really?

It seems almost incredible to me, that I could add an FSP to my current car (who's only power mod is a set of MBH longtubes) and I'd be over 500WHP....


Cooling mods aside, obviously.


-G

streetspeeder

I think the OP said "Shop" not "Stock"...

GregMB

396WHP seems to be the number that most people agree represents a "stock" E55 with 469HP at the crank... I've seen numbers in this ballpark many times on this forum for stock vehicles.

That's roughly a 15% driveline loss.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy if 500WHP can now be had from only 2 quick mods.....but it does seem a bit too good to be true.




-G

03'55AMG

Guys, the way I see it, I think it would be great to have a single mod that costs under $1,000 to get over 600hp... In reality, the older these cars get it seems the mods depreciate and the power increases too. 500 wheel with two mods and cooling sounds sweet to me.

AMGPower55

Would split cooling on a Bosch 010 and EC H/E be able to handle a 77 or 80mm FSP and tune?

Tech-Tune

Very good question, hope others with OE software chime in to confirm this

Agreed, so long as the hiccups are ironed out.

60nomad

I have ran a car or two with this FSP and it's incredible how much faster they are...it really does add the type of power that is claimed! I questioned it at first as every car I knew that had a SP gained like 20whp...it was a joke...then when the new thread came out I didn't realize that it was 'FIXED'. There are some issues as my buddy has it but it is still way faster with that pulley!

I haven't heard of many getting high 300's in stock form and there is typically more than 15% loss in auto's...especially with the E55's trans!

This is what I have seen anyway.

AMG E Power

Ppl have gotten 500+whp with header/ pulley combo already can someone explain if their are any fail safes in place since the clutch is gone ? I would assume the only safe way to keep iats in check would be to have split cooling with a trunk tank and meth and def monitoring them via iphone app or wide band which doesn't seem like a lot of guys have that much cooling in the first place.